The R15 Garage Thread

[satyenpoojary]

Hey Joel... One question....My stock Air filter god damaged thanks to someone smart who attempted to clean the filter.... and in the process put some oil\fuel\water or something in that paper filter!!!!!

I would be getting my spare filter in a bit, for now am on K&N, housed inside the box...
The bike runs better now! actually it pulls much better in that 3.5k to 6k RPM mark unlike the stock bike.... but am i risking the bike coz i know i havent been able to feed the new found air with the much needed fuel! Like everywhere else there is no tool available here to increase the AFR...
What would be an idle set up for accomodating the k&N? or
Should i wait for the stock air filter and avoid K&N?

[Aparajith]

@Vibhanshu: Ttopend and BHP figures are totally different. The top speed is dependent on gearing. The engine may bump out as much bhp as needed. Its ultimately the gearing in the drive that determines the top speed. To make proper use of all the 22 bhp and achieve a higher top speed u need to change the gearing.

[surbhit]

here is the link for big bore kit for R125 -



This kit takes displacement from 125cc to 182.58cc . I was just wondering whether it could be used for R15 also, 32cc extra will make R15 a monster

[Joel]

The rev limiter is 10k, but on the tacho dial we see the error of 500rpm. I've verified that with the FID and a digi tacho. It cuts off at 10000+/- 2rpm.

@vibhanshu - I guess u need to read more about engine tuning and performance related works before shooting such questions.
Lets keep this thread clean for some technical discussions.

@satyen - Dont worry, nothing will happen.

[jigar2speed]

@Vibhanshu: Ttopend and BHP figures are totally different. The top speed is dependent on gearing. The engine may bump out as much bhp as needed. Its ultimately the gearing in the drive that determines the top speed. To make proper use of all the 22 bhp and achieve a higher top speed u need to change the gearing.

Well put, the best thing in my opinion is that, if by any chance you are able to tune your bike to pump out 22bhp, you should change the final gear ratio of the bike. That should do the trick for you.

[satyenpoojary]

The rev limiter is 10k, but on the tacho dial we see the error of 500rpm. I've verified that with the FID and a digi tacho. It cuts off at 10000+/- 2rpm.

@vibhanshu - I guess u need to read more about engine tuning and performance related works before shooting such questions.
Lets keep this thread clean for some technical discussions.

@satyen - Dont worry, nothing will happen.

He he he so I paid about 1650 or something for "nothing to happen " for a tool that people use for making their bike fart-er err i mean faster...

Another question, where exactly do you feed in the revised values... does it go into the ECU? I believe it is of the EPROM types... so that theoretically means if you update the the ECU with the revised settings, it will be good for other bikes as well! a ray of hope for the FID deprived...

How easy\difficult is it to change the ECU for R15?

[KwokFist]

I've observed my bike's revs' cutting off at 10krpm and then the tacho moving towards the 10.5krpm redline and sometimes wondered why so, thanks joel for clearing it up! I was wondering there might've been a margin of error with the tacho.

Also the development's on the funny bike seem very exciting! Waiting for some more figures from that but more so from your bike. I hope you can do a speed check by weekend after completing all the works on ur bike.

[navnish]

2 days back my bike started overheating.First i thought it was due to the heat and the engine oil and then found out that the radiator fan motor relay had blown up.

So guys if you fan doesn't kick start on its own do check the relay which is located near the tail lamp.

if you think that the radiator fan is not switching on a simple way to check it is to swap the 2 relays and switch on the bike press the clutch and see if the relay is clicking ( making the tic tic noise when u press the clutch) . If its not then its dead .

Location of a few electrical components .

[sajiv]

^^^ Do you have a high res version of the pic?

[navnish]

^^^ Do you have a high res version of the pic?

Have attached a little better screen shot.

[Joel]

He he he so I paid about 1650 or something for "nothing to happen " for a tool that people use for making their bike fart-er err i mean faster...

Another question, where exactly do you feed in the revised values... does it go into the ECU? I believe it is of the EPROM types... so that theoretically means if you update the the ECU with the revised settings, it will be good for other bikes as well! a ray of hope for the FID deprived...

How easy\difficult is it to change the ECU for R15?

When u change the values, and once you lock it on the FID, it remains in the ECU's memory. Typically, ECUs get reset once they are disconnected and put back after a while, however I didnt see the values getting back to factory setting although it was reset. It remained the same as what I had set with the FID.
It could be coz these are open loop systems.

How hard is it to change the ECU? Well not very easy.
You can run a piggy back system which can take over ignition signalling, but we dont have one such system developed. Even a power commander on the R125 is just to change AFR (like our FID) and then switch between a few preset curves which will still not justify the price you pay.
For a full race mode operation, you need a standalone ECU which takes over the entire system and then everything is on your laptop screen. But your normal functions outside the engine controls wont work. Hence its only desirable for race engine and all-out projects.

Simply put, the R15 engine does not have much mechanical muscle even if you equip a stock engine with the best ECU. performance mods plus a good ignition is what can give the engine some serious kicks.
Unlike an RTR which already has a good ignition(CDI) from factory, so you dont have to look at muc h aftermarket options.
There are 2 ways to get performance from an engine, one is make thee engine to produce more torque and then gear it tall(however engine will be low revving) and second to make the engine spin faster and higher = more rpms.
The R15 lacks in both the areas. Its nor torquey coz it has a peaky set-up cam and set-up neither does it rev a lot. And if you put a modified cam which shifts the powerband, the rev limiter cutts it off.
The R15 engine has mechanical contraints to get past 11000rpm, no wonder Yamaha has cleverly set the limiter at 10k.
You can use an ignition which can take you past 11k, but the set-up wont last too long coz if factors like valve float (can be fixed to an extent by stiffer springs, but still), rod-flex, bearing load constraints, wear out factors, excessive piston speed etc.
people abroad have done some radical works on the T135 aka R15's step-thru cousin but none last street abuse. They are outright track/drag engines and they are big-bores.
Like I said earlier, they take the "building more torque' route. They go for big-bores, as high as 210cc courtesy a long stroke - stroked up crank and larger pistons. They even craft their own custom connecting rods to avoid rod flex and other mechanical disasters. Those top of the line custom 210cc engine pump nearly 27bhp at the crank.
Now do you guys realise what bulls-cock the dealers sell by saying there is a 22bhp ECU? There is nothing even existing. There are a few yamaha made ECUs which can have switching maps and it can improve the performance by a margin. Nothing even close to writing home.

Coming to the crux of the R15s matters, the engine is a gem as in its smooth, feels unstressed etc at all in stock trim but its not easy to make it stretch too much. An ECU can make a noticable difference, but nothing to pull your sockets away.
The R15 engine is very similar to the baleno's engine. Its long stroke, but feels really nice is stock form. But you take the radical mods route and you'll know what you did. Its good to a certain level. Say stage 2 max.
Thats where engines like that of the Honda's Vtec B16, D15, B18 etc put a smile on the tuners face. Now if only we had a damn CBR 150 in our country, it would have made wonders. But, lets stick to what we have for now.
I'm planning on working around the contraints and building a high performance motor on the R15, but I'll need to take high risk levels when I'm trying to reap every last ounce. Well its good to see someone modding an engine and then checking what he achieved, but its not easy to wear those shoes. Lets see what happens.

Joel

[HydBiker]

^^^ There you go... hitting the nail on its head and hitting it hard

Well its good to see someone modding an engine and then checking what he achieved, but its not easy to wear those shoes. Lets see what happens.

Joel

Hot shoe they are. That's very true and that's why you are Joel and we are not Joel

[svjhonda]

^
Best of luck Joel bro. Kudos to your knowledge.

[Sarvajit]

Wow! That was informative! Anyways, so what do you think the so called Yamaha performance mod will achieve, other than slightly remap the ECU settings&maybe put in a free flow exhaust with a better air filter?
Also pardon my ignorance, but what does a juice box do-just change the fuel flow thereby delivering more power? How good is it as opposed to a complete ECU remap with better exhaust&air filter?

[Joel]

Its not just about building an engine man, I need to blow that kind of money as well.
When you tell people the kind of investment and efforts that go into each build, they feel its not worth it. Such is the sad state of affairs in our country.
Now a car-user would not mind spending even upto 20% for mods. So if he owns a 10L car, spending 2L for mods is no big deal and they dont think twice.
On the contrary, for serious mods on an Indian 4-stroke you need to shell easily close to 50% of the bike's cost on mods. So if a karizma costs 85k, it will easily take 40-45k to take it to next levels of tune. But Indians rather spend that kind of money on some stupid body kit or unwanted cosmetics. Performance is still not valued. Its all coz of the lack of awareness.
No jokes, to take an R15 to its peak levels of tune, it would cost nothing less than upwards of 50-60k.
Now people think twice if they have to spend even 10% of this 60k for a stage 1 engine mod, but would not be bothered to blow the same on some stupid pair of HID and baloon tires. Or for that matter, countless collection of polishes, cleaners, oils and fancy consumables.

I used to have a friend, who nearly spent some 25k trying to bring his CBZ back to stock performance levels after he felt it had lost its original punch. many mechs stripped the engine and charged him well and changed every possible part. yet no results. In the end, his frustration made him sell it off and all the mechs who dealt with it were some of the most famous tuners from bangalore. And he is very much an xbhpian.
For 25k, that CBZ could outpace a karizma.
Thats how much of understanding we have on performance and performance related costs.