Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?


That's an incorrect point of view regarding an R15 even for the argument's sake! When it comes to the riding positions, there's a reason why sportbikes (more track focused or not) have such a forward leaning riding position with low handlebar positions. This position is more appropriate for tucking behind the front fairing aided by the low handle bar position and making the whole rider/motorcycle package as aerodynamic as possible. And R15's bhp/torque don't really go against it to ride on a track unless we are talking about a track like BIC.

I am aware you are revolving your argument around "motorcycling in India" phrase and whether Bajaj or Yamaha or Honda knows best for our country, but Yamaha designed the R15 the way a small capacity sportbike can be designed in one of the best possible ways which is also fairly comfortable to ride on our normal city streets. Yes, I believe that an R15 is a fairly comfortable sportbike. The only uncomfortable aspect, for me, could be the pillion seat. Still, Yamaha didn't make the R15 as aggressive as the R125 like you also mentioned. That perimeter frame in R15 combined with link-type mono suspension attached on a light aluminium swingarm is the ingredient appropriate for proper track days as well. It's not for the show off.

The point we all should be discussing is if Bajaj has designed their sportbike around a 200NS then it's going to be hard for them to keep the weight low. If they want to come up with a sport motorcycle below 200cc or upto it and the engine is based on 200NS, then it is preferable that it should weigh not so far away from the R15 and the CBR150R otherwise it could turn out to be a lazy/heavy handler. The 200NS weighs 145kgs fully loaded and a sportbike version designed around it will probably weigh higher. This is not preferable for even a 200cc sportbike unless Bajaj finds a magic trick to reduce weight. And this is why, precisely for this reason, that the Yamaha R15 is such a wonderfully designed 150cc sport motorcycle weighing at just 136kgs fully loaded with a full fairing.

Let's try to keep the discussion sane. It's not bad to bring, refer and talk about the existing sportbikes that we have. These sort of discussions and comparisons (even before the motorcycle reveal) are inevitable but we can surely have a healthy discussion around it without going personal on each other.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

but what about pulsar 150 & 180 ?? it has been a long time since they got upgraded??

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

@Satellite.kid
What you wrote about forward leaning riding position with low handlebars is general knowledge about motorcycles and I know it. You completely missed some of my points.
I can argue more and we can fill up another page with this off topic discussion, but seriously I don't wanna get modded for going this much off topic. So Let's stop right here.
Though one little thing I wanted to add is that last time I test rode the R15, I couldn't notice any windshield, tank to lean on.. cos the bike is so damn small for a fully faired bike, I can't comprehend it. No offense but it's like it's been designed for midgets.. It's ridiculous. Hence the weight is just 136 kgs ? Park it along side baby Ninja 250r/CBR 250r and see the difference.
I'm done here.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?


I didn't miss anything, that is why I quoted your whole post! I apologize, but in your case it doesn't seem like it's a general knowledge about forward leaning position on a sportbike (though exceptions are always there like duke with upright riding stance)! When you especially say things like "R15 v2.0 only appears like a track focused bike", "Duke200 however is an example of what a sports bike for India should be like, a bike that actually makes sense to me", it represents your premeditated point of view regarding an R15 and Duke both. Yes, Duke makes lot of sense to many people but at the same time be aware that Duke doesn't make sense for many more people. Moreover, it seems you personally do not like the R15 and which is absolutely fine. However, this is only making your arguments look obviously fueled by personal dissatisfaction or hatred towards the particular Yamaha. May be you should read my previous post again carefully and you would probably understand why R15 is a good small capacity track motorcycle.

You rode the R15 and didn't or couldn't notice the windshield and the tank and that is whose fault? Certainly not the motorcycle's I guess. Anyways, even fairly tall people (upto 6 feet at least), that I know among my friend circle, feel pretty comfortable while riding an R15. May be you are abnormally tall, in that case that explains it. Food for thought, some people feel cramped even on a Duke. Yes, I have seen R15 parked along side many motorcycles, but it never feels like it's designed for a "midget" as you say though, especially when parked alongside a 200NS or a Duke. You think R15 is too small, check out the 4 cylinder RSV4 and see how compact that is for a litre motorcycle.

You seem to own a 200NS, please correct me if I am wrong. And while we all, as humans, may show absolute hostility-in-opinions about certain motorcycles anywhere else, we are supposed to hold off such emotions in here on xbhp. When you say that R15 is made for midgets, you are eventually humiliating all R15 owners. Think about it.

PS: I do not own an R15, I own a Bullet and an FZ-S. And I do not shy away from a valid argument.... You seem to have completely missed my last 2 paragraphs from my previous post where I mentioned and wanted to continue this discussion on what Bajaj could do (or probably might have done already) to make a competitive sportbike.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Apologies to all R15 owners for the "designed for midgets" part. However a fairly tall guy like me (5'10-6ft) does look silly sitting on R15 no matter he's comfortable or not, just my opinion. I couldn't notice the windshield meant it wasn't functional for me. Though the riding confidence was definitely better, thanks to the aerodynamics. 80kmph felt like nothing.
I don't hate Yamaha, infact YZF-R6 is actually my dream bike. I only feel R15 is abit overrated even though it takes visual cues from R1/R6. They could definitely come up with a bigger engine that justifies their design choices for fully faired sports models.
Other than that, I think TVS/Bajaj's approach towards low displacement sports bike category for India is far better than Yamaha. Proof is the highly successful semi faired 220F & Apache RTR. Though 220F is no way near R15 in handling department, 200NS definitely is, which only means Bajaj has great potential and their future models are going to be very competitive. And if they wanna put "supersports" badge on those models (which I certainly don't care about) they can do it right ? Why was someone butthurt and hanging around in this Bajaj thread in the first place. I mean abhinesh4r15. He had stuff to say about Bajaj and complain about SS stickering lol, this is the reason I brought in his R15 and created this mess.
gg?
Apologies.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Sir, may be going a little off topic here, I would say the R15 eventhough not in the league of Ninja300 when it comes to performance and power but its handling is imho right there with Ninja if not better.
Infact when I rode them back to back, the R15 is much more flickable due to the lesser weight and turn in was way easier than the Ninja. The fact that I was not carrying as much speed on the R15 might have be a factor that I felt it was easier on the R15. Midway during a turn the Ninja felt more composed but it also took more effort on the part of the rider to lean the bike and straighten it back up.
Now if someone asks me which is a better handling bike I would rate the R15 over the Ninja300. Given the same power on both the bikes without increasing the weight on R15, I would be able to beat myself had I been riding the Ninja too. The R15 somehow gives me a better feedback from the front. The difference is not that big but its my personal opinion.

People don't bash me for praising the R15 on a Bajaj thread. I am a Bajaj fan myself, have owned 2 bajaj vehicles in the past and going to own a third from them, that is if KTM is considered as Bajaj product.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Super Sports don't feel flickable.. Commuter bikes are Flickable.

Handling on the Ninja 250 reminded me of the scaled down handling experience of the Ninja ZX6R.. the R15 does a pretty good job of replicating that Super Sports feel (by scaling down another level).. but the Ninja 250 feels twice better than the R15.

Haven't ridden the Ninja 300 but I guess it will be only better.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Just interjecting on the 'flickability' angle.

Flickability is the most dynamic property of a motorcycle's handling. It is a direct function of and a result of its motion. A super-sports is as flickable as a commuter BUT at widely different speeds.

The commuter can dance a jig on the road at moderate commuting speeds - say anywhere between 40-70 kph. Take them higher and a feeling of going wayward starts creeping in which usually asserts itself close to the top speed of the bike.

A super-sports does feel sluggish at those speeds but let the speed build up and the quickness of roll starts showing up. Comparing 'distance covered while transitioning from left lean to right lean' - the distance used up by the commuter at low speeds would probably be proportionately bettered by the super-sports at high speeds. A super-sports geometry is more dynamics assisted while that for the commuter is more 'physical' i.e. needing greater and more forceful intervention from the rider. Which is also one reason why they go all twitchy as speeds build up to serious levels.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Well, now that is debatable.
According to me a supersports needs to be as flickable as it needs to be stable. By flickable I mean easily being able to tackle a sharp S-turn. It should be nimble, without too much effort being required from the riders end, that would tire him out and a heavy handling bike is not considered as a good handling bike. I might be wrong in using the flickable term here but the ninja 250 takes a lot more effort from the Rider compared to what an R15 takes.
How I describe good handling is, when the bike does what the rider is thinking without actually taking a lot of effort from the rider. This is where the R15 feels better than the Ninja 300 and a lot better than the 250, this very well just might be to me.

Cheers!


Ps: By the time I was done typing Old Fox explained the flickability aspect much better than I could have ever done.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Yes, must be a personal opinion.. because the Ninja 250/300 is a class act when it comes to handling.

And like Old Fox sir mentioned, you probably were riding the Ninja 250 slow (that's why the sluggish and the "lot of effort" feel). Take a high speed corner with both the R15 and the Ninja 250/300 to be able to appreciate which one feels like a stable Super Sport.

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

To add to this discussion, please check this,

Bajaj Pulsar 220SS- Fairy Version | Latest Updates

Can this be one of the two full faired pulsars. . ? A 200ss. . ?



The above said link is an old news which was published back in May 27 2013, so I suspect it a little. . . What are your views on this. . ?

Cheers!!!

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

Genuinely claiming, this is not even a mod-job. Photoshop (or other such design S/W) at its best. And, "full competition with R15 & CBR" it seems.. LOL

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

yup I do feel it's photoshopped as the fairing doesn't come that down. . . But at least we can get a view on the other upcoming faired pulsar other than 375 that it might get a full fairing along with a projector headlight similar to that of pulsar 220, what say. . ?

Cheers!!!

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

[What in the god's name is a Fairy version?? It is called a Fairing!]

You sir, have definitely not seen a 2006 GSXR 600.



Come on guys! The one in spy shots is the real Pulsar! Please stop posting non sense modified pictures!

Re: Bajaj preparing 2 "Super Sports" motorcycles under the Pulsar Brand? P200 SS?

right, sorry about that. . . As I was in a hurry looking at it, I just posted it without seeing much. . . N don you feel that GSXR fairing fits perfectly with the pulsars, as seen previoulsy on a guy who had moded his pulsar 220 with GIXXER kit. . .

Cheers!!!