The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

[Divya Sharan]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Hi all,

Another detailed post! Good going! Are these 3900K bulbs. I got 4300K Hella performance bulbs for my Karizma (H4, 55w) for 1100 rupees.
Sadly, they have dimmed within 6 months of usage. Feel like 35w lamps.

In the hindsight, maybe the reflector has gone bad in 4.5 years.

[shv18]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Shiv bhai,

Any details about philips crystal vision 4300K 12V H4 bulb..?

I got hold of one bulb from a fellow xbhpian.

Cheers,
Sanjay

Sent from my LT28h using xBhp Connect mobile app

I am note sure my friend.. i haven't personally tried this bulb so cannot comment on it. But i believe so long as it meets the stock specifications and is slightly brighter it should be fine.

Shv18..... A post after a long time in hibernation....and again you have come with a detailed and Interesting post....

You have rightly observed that the AGM Amaron of 4 months old was still able to come back alive with a terminal voltage of only 10.+ volts.
I wish to share my little knowledge on how the AGMs are different from the rest of the types of Automotive Batteries.
Basically there are two types of lead acid batteries The two main types are Starting (cranking), and Deep Cycle . The starting battery , is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy (such as starting engines) and therefore has a greater plate count. The plates are thinner and have somewhat different material composition. The deep cycle battery has less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles. Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications because the thinner plates are more prone to warping and pitting when discharged.
Wet Cell (flooded), and Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) are various versions of the lead acid battery. The Wet cell comes in two styles; Serviceable and Maintenance free. Both are filled with electrolyte and are basically the same,and the AGM batteries are specialty batteries that typically cost twice as much as a premium wet cell.An AGM battery is a completely maintenance-free lead-acid electric storage battery that is sealed using special pressure valves. Absorbent glass mat (AGM) is a class of VRLA battery in which the electrolyte is absorbed into a mat of fine glass fibers....
....Till now AGM batteries were only used in Luxury Cars and High end SBKs...Now Aamaron had introduced affordable AGM batteries for motorcycles.
Hope this is helpful in understanding about AGM's superiority over flooded and SMF battery types.

Shiv18, keep the flow ....

Yes sir indeed. what you have written in theory to help the readers to get a better understanding of the inner workings and technology behind AGM, my battery is a living proof of that!! Amaron AGM battery technology is far more superior than the standard batteries that are available currently in the indian market. The charging time was ridiculously fast and i am still having a hard time digesting the fact that @10.2 volts normally a battery should be dead and done for good. This one came back to life as if nothing happened! May be one useful top tip from this thread for the readers.. if your OEM battery dies.. GET RID OF IT.. GO FOR AGM.. GO FOR AMARON (not a plug in but based on pure facts and real life data!)

Another detailed post! Good going! Are these 3900K bulbs. I got 4300K Hella performance bulbs for my Karizma (H4, 55w) for 1100 rupees.
Sadly, they have dimmed within 6 months of usage. Feel like 35w lamps.

In the hindsight, maybe the reflector has gone bad in 4.5 years.

Honestly mate, i am not sure of the colour temperature rating as the bulb doesn't have it mentioned anywhere in the tech specs. However, on dry tarmc the output is very very good and i am liking the additional beam spread and illumination of the road ahead that has happened with this bulb. I would say it is about 15 - 20% brighter than the OEM stock bulb.. but as @psr sir has rightly pointed out, unless i test it in the real world scenario under mist and rainy conditions, it won't be right on my part to proclaim that it is "better than stock" (a line made quite famous by someone all the old timers in xbhp know of eh? ).

Honestly the stock headlight bulb is quite good and i mean it. It is just that in pursuit of getting something better.. i have a tendency to "spend" on things and share my experiences here and there.. A long term review of the Powerlight from Hella should keep things in the right perspective.

Cheers,

[B7ACKTHORN]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Each time I open this thread, there is this audacity to go on and on regardless of what's on the next page, beautifully explained, I can only imagine this soul's painstaking homework behind each and every single point, elaborated simple yet stunningly effective. [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION], I owe you a good old cuppa coffee, sometime real soon. The entire CBR250R thread in just 8 pages "PLEASE" keep it coming.

Can't wait for the next episode of this mega serial, OCMD.

Cheers!
VJ

[aargee]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

I then started the hunt, looking for a brighter bulb which provides more illumination and as a result will offer better low beam spread. After a bit of searching around i landed up with Hella Powerlight for my CBR 250R.

Just asking, why didn't you try Osram Nightbreaker+; if you didn't come across, then OK, otherwise, what is that made you to stay off from Osram pls?

I am yet to try the new bulb under rainy conditions to confirm if the brighter and whitish light tends to merge with the wet tarmac, reducing visibility as reported by other riders in the forums i had visited before making the purchase decision on the same.

You may not like what I'm saying, but still, 100% sure, white light doesn't like black tarmac & its going to be utter disappointment. Had you just consulted with me, I would've saved you some money. I'm suffering with Osram Nightbreaker+ that is between blue & white (Yellow > Blue > White) in monsoon; on a dry day, Osram Nightbreaker is near to perfect for CPR. Anyway, pls let us know if its otherwise, I'll consider shifting to Hella too.

[shv18]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Each time I open this thread, there is this audacity to go on and on regardless of what's on the next page, beautifully explained, I can only imagine this soul's painstaking homework behind each and every single point, elaborated simple yet stunningly effective. @shv18, I owe you a good old cuppa coffee, sometime real soon. The entire CBR250R thread in just 8 pages "PLEASE" keep it coming.

Can't wait for the next episode of this mega serial, OCMD.

Cheers!
VJ

Hehe.. just mere posts from a simpleton..

Just asking, why didn't you try Osram Nightbreaker+; if you didn't come across, then OK, otherwise, what is that made you to stay off from Osram pls?


You may not like what I'm saying, but still, 100% sure, white light doesn't like black tarmac & its going to be utter disappointment. Had you just consulted with me, I would've saved you some money. I'm suffering with Osram Nightbreaker+ that is between blue & white (Yellow > Blue > White) in monsoon; on a dry day, Osram Nightbreaker is near to perfect for CPR. Anyway, pls let us know if its otherwise, I'll consider shifting to Hella too.

My current place of stay is quite remote so i am left with very limited choices saar. Regarding test runs at night during: dry, wet and mist conditions... well due to office commitments my riding has become limited to daily commute only. The moment i get to stretch the legs of my CBR and that too for night rides shall present my report here saar.


Cheers,

[aargee]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

My current place of stay is quite remote so i am left with very limited choices saar

Not anymore...
eBay
Osram Night Breaker UNLIMITED H4 60/55W (double): Amazon.in: Car & Motorbike

http://www.snapdeal.com/product/osram-night-breaker-plus-headlight/1871655959

[psr]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

The Osram Nightbreaker color temperature is 3700K
The Osram Night breaker Unlimited color temperature is 4000 K
The Hella Power Light color temperature is 4400 K

Compared to a conventional Halogen the Higher output ie., the Osram night breakers Unlimited and Hella get higher light output by operating their filaments at higher temperatures...So expect Reduced Life..

[shv18]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Not anymore...
eBay
Osram Night Breaker UNLIMITED H4 60/55W (double): Amazon.in: Car & Motorbike
http://www.snapdeal.com/product/osra...ght/1871655959

Saar, they cannot be delivered by the vendor to my place as it is not covered by their shipment/courier company i believe. I did try the internet as the next option to get hold of Osrams at first, but may due to high theft or misplaced items: courier companies usually donot entertain shipments of electronic items to this side. i guess i have lost some of perks i got while i was stationed in Mumbai

The Osram Nightbreaker color temperature is 3700K
The Osram Night breaker Unlimited color temperature is 4000 K
The Hella Power Light color temperature is 4400 K

Compared to a conventional Halogen the Higher output ie., the Osram night breakers Unlimited and Hella get higher light output by operating their filaments at higher temperatures...So expect Reduced Life..

Interesting post sir. At the moment my riding is limited within the premises of the town at night riding lasts barely for 20 - 25 minutes. I guess more or less for dry tarmac and road conditions, Osram and other high performance bulbs are good but the downside is bulb life. So at the cost of frequent replacements due to shorter bulb life, one can opt for better illumination. You can't have the cake and the cherry on top too!!

May be for the general public/CBR owners stock OEM bulb is good enough.


Cheers,

[Divya Sharan]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

You may not like what I'm saying, but still, 100% sure, white light doesn't like black tarmac & its going to be utter disappointment. Had you just consulted with me, I would've saved you some money. I'm suffering with Osram Nightbreaker+ that is between blue & white (Yellow > Blue > White) in monsoon; on a dry day, Osram Nightbreaker is near to perfect for CPR. Anyway, pls let us know if its otherwise, I'll consider shifting to Hella too.

Sir jee, I think Shiv has 3900K rated bulbs which should be fine. I seriously hope they are NOT 4300/4400K. I say this because I have the 4300K Hella on my bke and I'm blind in rains, under street lamps, when there are many vehicles on the opposite lane etc. They are utterly useless! Osram NB was much much better.

[AK3D]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

The Osram Nightbreaker color temperature is 3700K
The Osram Night breaker Unlimited color temperature is 4000 K
The Hella Power Light color temperature is 4400 K

Compared to a conventional Halogen the Higher output ie., the Osram night breakers Unlimited and Hella get higher light output by operating their filaments at higher temperatures...So expect Reduced Life..

Sir jee, I think Shiv has 3900K rated bulbs which should be fine. I seriously hope they are NOT 4300/4400K. I say this because I have the 4300K Hella on my bke and I'm blind in rains, under street lamps, when there are many vehicles on the opposite lane etc. They are utterly useless! Osram NB was much much better.

That is where the Philips Xtreme Vision is very good. Me, Sri and Phanikar had a discussion a while ago and it was mentioned by [MENTION=22265]SriramEfunds[/MENTION] that the colour temperature of the Xtreme Vision was 3700K. I was under the mistaken impression it was 4300K. The Osram NB is 3700K while the NB unlimited is 3900K. The light output of the Xtreme Vision is very good, as is the visibility in rain. I needed to readjust the headlight to get optimum output with the Philips XV.
Philips also has a Cityvision bulb specifically for motorcycles, but I've not tried this one out yet CityVision Moto Motorcycle headlights 12342CTVBW | Philips .
I would suggest any of these bulbs with a lower color temperature for riding to assist night time/rain visibility.

[SriramEfunds]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Wow, it's my favourite topic and let me share my experience of using both Phlips Xtreme Vision and Osram NB Unlimited H4 60/55w in my Hero Honda Karizma.



Philips Xtreme vision is in existence for some time so we get to see the latest line of products with beam range getting longer and longer. The color temperature has been from 3600k to the latest Philips Xtreme vision +130% which now comes with 3700k. What I have experienced is that the low beam spread is awesome and the high beam is some what concentrated but not wide.





Osram Nightbreaker which first came with unique blue coat around the bulb and renowed for it's brightness. Over the years, they were able to improve the autolighting technology that the latest range of Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited offers 110% more light than the stock bulb. Currently I'm using Osram NB Unlimited on both of my Karizmas, my feel is that, though the brighness is somewhat very very slightly better than Philips Xtreme Vision, the low beam spread was disappointing. The high beam gives you a good wide throw and reaches far ahead makes me happy.


To those who wanted to go for headlight upgrade here are my thoughts

If we want good overall bulb for the bike, I would suggest you to go for color temperature around 3200-3700k and not any higher. Be it rains or dry summer, the color temperature will be easy readable to our eyes unlike white tube lights (5000k and above) which will be the worst during the rains/fogs.
Apart from that there is another factor which I would like to share is, all the bulb manufacturer has a guideline to follow ie. to make it road legal. I'm talking about the countries abroad. The above mentioned bulb manufacturers being an European origin has lot of responsibility to develop a product according to strict EU regulations which other wise term it as road legal which is nothing but 60/55w. You may question why is that we see higher watts bulbs being sold in the market, to answer their question, they do sell those bulbs say.. 130/100w, 100/90w etc, however, the reknowed manufacturer clearly mentions that these bulbs are strictly for off-road use/ does not conforms with EU standards etc.
Another interesting learning during my experiment is how to select a good bright bulb? The throw and brighness is not based on the color temperature but brightness which is measured in terms of Lumens. Not very often we get to know the details of Luminous of the bulb unless the manufacturer intend to share them. The bulbs that has higher Lumens will have excellent throw and brightness. The downside would be higher heat and offcourse slightly lesser life.


Parking lights/Sidelight bulbs

If you guys don't mind spending some extra bucks, do get the Phlips/Osram W5W/T10 1 watt Led bulbs for your bikes. It's worth it. Unlike the cheap chinese tube lights, Osram/Philips comes with 4000k which almost blends with your headlight and it is more pleasing. These performance T10 bulbs could put all the chinese cheap tubelight color led bulbs to shame with just 1 watt.

[shv18]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Hi All,

i am very happy to note that finally we have some very senior and highly experienced riders coming here and contributing by sharing their experiences on this thread. I am very confident, sooner or later this too follow the footsteps of http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...ouse-fz18.html thread where slowly from mere experience sharing thread it became much more All productive discussions are always a welcome in this thread and really thank you all for participating. But let me not get carried away with just showing my gratitude to all the faithful readers and the senior members here.. i wish to share the second half of the story where i was about to lose all the hair on my head by the amount of stress my beloved CBR gave me. So let us continue...

Now that it was pretty clear that my CBR 250R was facing some sort of electrical issue and in all honesty, it was something i was not at all familiar with, nor i am the competent person to troubleshoot, the first step was to call and irritate senior riders and see if their experience can help me to narrow down the real culprit behind my vehicle not starting rather refusing to turn anything ON: electrical in my bike. Now all the readers may be aware that Honda CBR 250R is a fuel injected motorcycle with quite a lot of sophisticated sensors and electronics (more technical information can be found here: Honda Worldwide | CBR250R) so naturally, when an electrical fault has taken place: to a layman, the list of reasons can be endless. I was really scared, dare i fiddle with something and a wrong terminal comes into contact with the other, i may be looking at a lot of fireworks and my bike going up in flames (Psst.. may be too dramatic but to a non-competent person this all looked like algebra to me!) Due to work commitments, i was not able to visit the SVC at all and had to rely on my uncle's borrowed car to carry out my daily chores with commuting. So belive me when i tell you this: it was really quite frustrating! Any passionate biker will understand what i was going through.. the car felt like an air conditioned cage to me and i was not at all enjoying the experience, something which was an event, a fun thing to do everytime i turned on the ignition and just let go on my motorcycle. I had to get this CBR back online or else i would lose it..

So i started troubling the senior riders and then shared the symptoms my bike was showing:

* When the ignition switch is turned ON, the MID console: nothing happens. No pre-inspection checks nothing.
* The Neutral light was very dim and if we turn on the engine kill switch it turns into a zeo watt bulb with more or less no illumination coming from it!
* Nothing works: no horns, no turn indicators and no headlight.

Step 1 as advised by the senior riders was to recheck the voltage on the terminals of the battery and see if after keeping it parked at the SVC, the voltage has drastically dropped to 10.2 - 10.3 volts. If that is the case then the battery is faulty.



Pic 1: Battery voltage being checked with a multimeter after a week of keeping the bike stationary at the SVC.

Not surprisingly, the AGM Amaron battery was still showing a healthy voltage output of 13.35 after a week of keeping it idle without any charging taking place. So this possibility was already thrown out of the window. Just for the sake of it, we again connected the battery on another CBR 250R to see if the multimeter was getting false readouts. The Amaron AGM battery was able to crank the other CBR without any problem. I must admit throughout the week, the mechanic had kept the battery disconnected as amongst ECM FI motorcycles and cars, it is a known thing that some amount of voltage/current is always drawn by the ECM even when the vehicle is not in use. So if the duration of idle period is too long, the battery may get completely drained. Usually it is advised to remove the battery from the motorcycle if the owner is planning to go out for a long leave otherwise by the time he comes back home, he may experience a completely flat battery and a non-functional motorcycle.

Anyways, moving on now that AGM Amaron battery was happily holding up its charge, we moved on to the next possibility: formation of rust/ oxidation of terminals inside the electrical connectors/couplers. Usually in extremely humid and places with high rainfall, due to the ambient weather conditions, the copper wires inside the connectors may slowly start forming resistance due to oxidation which may eventually result in connection breakage = no voltage being allowed to pass through = non functional bike. The logic seemed credible to me so we started the process of dismantling the fiber panels from my CBR and open up the connectors.







Pic 2, 3 & 4: @shv18 going on "mental mode" . All the panels were removed and even the tank was not spared!

We first took out the relays in the front left hand side of the vehicle and using WD 40 (which is very very good at eating up rust and removing moisture from the surface) we started spraying at the insides of the terminal and also at the exposed end of the relays themselves. We then slowly started identifying every connector/coupler we could find and then started cleaning up both "male" and "female" ends using liberal amount of WD40 spray.





Pic 5 & 6: Relay being taken out and then WD40 spray being applied to negate the chances of rust and moisture formation inside the connectors.

The idea was to completely iron out any possibilities of lose connections within the connectors/couplers due to oxidation and moisture build up. So i went ahead getting hold of any piece of connector/coupler i could find with my limited knowledge and we started opening up the connections and then cleaning it up using WD40 from every direction i could come up with, by bending the small spray pipe to. Even the Keihin OEM ECM was not spared!! i was going completely mental and my mechanic at the SVC could see my desperation.. he simply said nothing and followed whatever i requested him to do.







Pic 7, 8, 9: OEM Keihin ECM being taken out the interior being sprayed with WD 40.

We then started isolating whatever connectors i could find and started dismantling them as well.. even the OEM dual horn connections were not spared!!









Pic 10, 11, 12 & 13: All connectors including the horn connections were cleaned up using WD40.

I simply wanted to discount out any possibilities related to connection issues: so even the electrical connections to Fuel pump, fuel injectors and the throttlebody right below the tank was taken out and cleaned vigorously using WD 40. I believe I most likely might have emptied half of the can by time we were done with the process. May be looking at the pictures, all this work may seem to be very easy but believe me that is not the case. Most of the connectors below the tank are very tightly packed and are in difficult space to access. So right from dismantling the panels to gettting hold of the connectors, application to WD 40 to reconnecting everything back took about a good 2 hours. By the time we were done, with the temperatures hovering at 35'C and 100% humidity: both me and the mechanic were thoroughly exhausted. We took a break and then tried starting the motorcycle. But as luck would have it nothing happened... same old story.. MID console didn't even flinch a bit from its earlier stance. One can imagine how pissed off i was at that point of time. But regardless, understandably finding electrical fault especially by a layman is an extremely difficult thing to do (i was expriencing it first hand).

I was slowly losing hope but then again decided not to give up. Based on further recommendation of the senior riders, we then dismantled the RR (Rectifier) unit and used WD 40 spray and put that back in with the hopes that it might do the trick.. but then same old same old! nothing turned ON!! It was nearing the workshop closing time, so called it quits and went back home thoroughly disappointed!



Pic 14: RR unit being dismantled and cleaned using WD 40

I was cursing myself, wondering why does it have to be me to face all these weird issues. But then thanks to the moral support i received from the fellow senior riders, it made me realise one thing: that at the end of the tunnel, there is light: that through this experience i will end up learning something which i had absolutely no clue of.. taking the leap of faith and let common sense and the experience of senior riders do the rest of the work.. we will eventually get hold of a solution which will in turn make us more knowledgeable. Though i kept my enthusiam going but then work life overtook the priorities and then my motorcycle troubleshooting had to be in the backbench for another week. I was quite restless by then. Throughout the whole week of my absence, the mechanic kept on trying different permutations and combinations, opening up the different connections and seeing what might be the issue. Understandably, most of the mechanics in remote town, even the ones trained right from OEM company workshops don't have sufficient hands on experience or the skillset to identify such electrical faults. Most of them are good at changing oil and chain and sprockets... the rest is "Bhagwaan Bahrosey" (by god's grace!!) Regardless, i was happy by the enthusiasm shown by the mechanic but by the time i was back in the workshop even the mechanic gave up and suggested that may be it would be better if we take it to a bigger SVC which is roughly 50 kms from my current place of stay. I was so annoyed by then i decided that whatever may be the result: even if i get stranded in the middle of nowhere i shall give it a try and take this vehicle to another SVC and get my bike back in running condition. So taking a huge risk, it was decided to push start the bike and then ride it all the way to the next closest SVC. When we tried push starting it, at first nothing happened. But then after repeated attempts, the bike came back online as if nothing was wrong and even cranked with its own power. Taking the name of god i then went on with the journey.

Luckily, my CBR never gave up on me and i reached the other SVC some 50 kms away safely. I spoke to the mechanics and let the bike cool down for a bit. They then inspected the bike from the top and told me everything is fine!! I requested them to atleast check the terminals using a multimeter and let me know if the bike is healthy and this problem will not turn up again.. But then they gave me a cold shoulder and told me they will check in sometime as there were other customers waiting in the line. i patiently waited for over 2 - 2.3 hours in the customer lounge only to notice that the mechanics avoided my bike, tried to show that they were extremely busy. Common sense told me that they also had absoltely no clue and were hesitant of fiddling with the electronics, so i decided to ride my CBR all the way back to my current place of stay. She was functioning just fine and never gave me any problem throughout the journey.

I did observe that the radiator fan turned on quite a no. of times throughout the journey even when the engine temperature was showing only 3 bars and i was doing an average of 55 - 60 kmph. It did seemed weird to me as worldwide, people have nothing but praise for the radiator system on the CBR 250R: where the fan doesn't come on that often even when riding in the city limits. And here i was on the highway and the fan kept turning on atleast 11 - 12 times by the time i reached home. May be it was just a very hot day i don't know, so i left this doubt at that and parked my bike. At night i had to go and do a small errand related to grocery shopping, so i started the bike and turned of the headlights and went about riding. In about 30 mins of riding while coming back, i was noticing the same old problems turning up their ugly faces: The headlight was turning dim, the turn indicators blinking very fast and the shrill horn noise. CBR then started sputtering and coughing and was misfiring like anything. So i immediately parked her inside the garage and left her there. The next morning i turned on the ignition and then nothing happened!! So the problem came back after riding for over 100 kms just a day ago. I thanked my stars that she didn't leave me stranded atleast, but this whole deal was becoming seriously irritating. Left with no choice, i gave it back at the service centre and requested my mechanic to get hold of an outside guy who specialises in checking the wireloom connections of cars and bikes. May be he would be able to identify the issue better than me and the SVC mechanic could. We had entered the 3rd week then. So now with all hopes pinned with the electrician, i left the SVC and waited eagerly for the news which would make my day... that my motorcycle is back and functioning...

More is on its way.. till then watch out this space..


Cheers,

[Divya Sharan]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

This is getting interesting! My bike suffered a similar problem recently where I almost tore out all my hair in 6 days trying to diagnose the possible 'electrical' issue. My bike had also died suddenly while riding and never started. I checked all possible components and on reading your wd40 saga, I could only smile as it reminded me about me only. [emoji14]

I even replaced all the components from my bike, right from ignition coil to the Keihin ECM on another ZMR only to find it working on the other bike.
Turned out to be rust formation on quite a few connections (inside the black tubing) in my case.

Waiting for the cliffhanger to end on yours!

[shv18]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Hi all,

so this is the third installment: regarding what went wrong with my CBR and how did i manage to troubleshoot and iron out the issue. Without a doubt all the credit goes to @psr sir who was always willing help this poor rider, living 3000+ kms away from him. I am greatly indebted to him for guiding me throughout the process as in all honesty, i am completely a noob when it comes to electricals and wiring layout on a two wheeler. Anyways, let us carry on with the story...

So now the duration of my CBR lying idle in the SVC had entered 4th week and due to work commitments i was not even getting any time to make a call and check on the progress and find out if the electrician who specialises in working on wiring looms had visited the SVC and had a look on my bike. Finally, on the weekend i managed to get some time and visited the SVC. When i reached the SVC and spoke to the mechanic, to my utter disappointment, the person whom the mechanic had fixed the deal to check and identify the issue had not turned up the whole week and all follow up calls went unanswered. Now with no-one to lean onto and learning from the experiences of http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...ouse-fz18.html , i decided to take the matter into my own hands. As always, a call went to @psr sir and i asked him to kindly guide me through the process of how to troubleshoot this electrical issue.

As per our discussion, we started to narrow down on the culprit by following these simple steps:

1) The engine kill switch may have developed some oxidation due to high humidity and high rainfall: This was already negated as i had recently replaced the whole switch assembly and this problem had showed up even before the replacement of the same was carried out.

2) The Ignition switch might have developed a fault which may result in no completion of electrical circuit thus, the vehicle not starting at the turn of the switch.: Noting this might be a possibility, we then began the process of dismantling the whole ignition switch set to check and see if there is any flow of electricity in the terminals. For those who are not aware, CBR ignition switch comes right from the factory hard pressed into the Upper triple tree clamp with threadless bolts. in order to dismantle the ignition switch, one may refer to this video:

However, when we went about dismantling the ignition switch, we found that the lockset was held tight by a pair of Allen key bolts. Now i am not sure whether it is the case with the CBRs from manufacturing year 2013 onwards that it came fitted with allen bolts instead of threadless bolts but it seemed a bit suspicious. May be... just may be the previous owner might have faced this issue in the past, drilled out the old bolts and replaced them with allen bolts, may be he got scared and as a result might have sold off this bike at 50% cost of the onroad price within a year. I am not saying that this is actually the case but yes: one's mind does intend to swerve into all possibilities when things are not what they are supposed to be.



Pic 1: Ignition lockset on my 2014 year CBR 250R has allen key mounting bolts which seemed bit unusual. though i cannot verify if it came right from the factory like this only.

Anyways, after the ignition switch was dismantled off from the bike, we then inspected the whole unit. As the reference pictures below will indicate, in comparison to the video link above the lockset on the newer models have only 2 wires soldered onto the rear of the lockset which gave us a clue that the electrical switch is nothing but a simple ON/OFF one just like one would find on Pulsar 220 or equivalent models of motorcycles currently in the Indian market.





Pic 2 & 3: Images of the Honda CBR 250R ignition locket. Compared to the 2011 models this one is cheaper. Older model costed some 12k the newer lot the price is about 6k i believe.

In order to figure out if the ignition lockset is working or not, we followed two methods:

* Desi jugaad method: My base mechanic took the ignition lockset and connect at the back of a mini truck to the circuit where when the reverse gear is engaged, a reverse indicating unit is connected which plays irritating hindi songs (everybody might have comes across such things on a bus or a truck while riding on the streets ) If the ignition lockset is not functioning, then when the lockset is plugged into the circuit and the ignition switch is turned ON if nothing happens then it would indicate that there is an electrical fault or wire breakge somewhere. When he turned on the vehicle key, put the gear on reverse and then the CBR ignition lockset connected to the wiring of the unit was turned ON, the vehicle started singing the irritating "Dhoom Machaley" crappy song which confirmed that the ignition lockset was functioning just fine.

* Scientific procedure: Using a multimeter, connect the terminals of the multimeter to the male ends of the lockset and flip the multimeter switch to 0 Ohms. If the multimeter shows some voltage passing through/ if the multimeter makes a constant sound then that means the the circuit is allowing the electricity to pass through thus, the ignition lockset is working just fine. We then followed the process and the multimeter made the constant sound which confirmed that the ignition lockset was working thus, it can be taken off from the suspect list.



Pic 4: The male ends of the connectors for the ignition lockset. Use a multimeter and touch both the male ends using the multimeter prongs on each of the terminals. If on 0 Ohms the multimeter shows voltage readout or makes a constant buzzing sound then it confirms the lockset is working just fine.

Now that we negated that the Honda CBR 250R ignition lockset is not the culprit behind this whole mess, we then moved on to the next step.

3) Shorting the female connector for the ignition lockset: Now that the ignition lockset has been taken out of the equation and dismantled from the motorcycle completely, as per @psr sir's suggestion i took a small insulted copper electrical wire and inserted into the female end of the connecter where the ignition lockset male connector would latch on to. The process is quite simple. As the picture below will reflect, one simply needs to identify the connector to the ignition lockset, unlock it, and then insert a copper wire to shorten the connection.



Pic 5: The ignition switch connector being identified and then disconnected. We then use a small strip of insultated copper wire and insert between the two female end of the connector.

The general idea behind this method is to completely bypass the ignition switch. If the ignition switch is actually faulty then by simply shortening the female end of the wire, if everything comes ON, we have then identified the culprit. However when this was done, nothing turned ON, there was nothing happening. Instead the neutral light switch just came on, very dimly lit just as it was the case when the lockset was connected to circuit. I was fearing of the worst: may be one of those moronic rats decided to visit my motorcycle and had a wireloom "chew fest" screwing up everything and i may be a expecting footing a huge bill on the same. @psr sir assured me not to worry and move on to the next step.

As per @psr sir's advice, while the copper wire was kept inserted, i then inserted the prong of the multimeter (turn the dial to 20 Volts) into one of connectors and then touched the other one to one of the exposed bolts on the engine. First female connector showed "0" volts which is to be expected. The Next terminal ideally should show the exact voltage of what was read on the battery terminals. If it is lesser then there is a possibility that somewhere in between the battery and the wiring coming to the ignition lockset, there is a wire breakage. When i tried the same thing on the other female connector and checked the voltage reading, it showed a mere 5.04 volts which is less than half of what should be the normal voltage readout. In my case the Amaron AGM battery was showing a total output of 13.35 volts so at the terminal it should have shwon the same thing, but with just 5.04 volts we were slowly inching towards the culprit. We then moved on to the next step.

4) Checking the fuse connections and voltage across the fuses while the female connectors are kept shorten and the circuit is live: Since, it was already confirmed that all the fuses in the fuse box were fine, we followed the next step of opening the top lid of the fuse box and then using a multimeter (turn the dial to 20Volts), touched the top exposed metal part with one prong and the other prong touching the Chassis we measured the voltage across the 6 fuses that are in the fusebox. Just like the scenario above, all the fuses should show the same voltage readouts as what is generated by the battery. If the voltage readout is less than that then there is either a circuit breakage or electric current is leaking from somewhere. For the readers and CBR owners to easily identify where the fusebox is located, you simply need to take out the rider seat and look for a small black box placed right next to the battery.





Pic 6 & 7: The placement of the fusebox on a Honda CBR 250R. Look at for a black box above the battery. When opened, one will find 6 fuses connected in an array and one fuse inside which is a spare one.

When i touched the multimeter prong on the top of the expose fuse metal bit and then touched the chassis, the voltage readout was again showing a mere 5.04 volts which indicated something was wrong and right amount of voltage was not able to flow. I got consistent 5.04 volts reading across all the fuses in the fuse box. We then moved on to the next step where an insulated copper wire was touched onto the positive terminal side of the battery and the other side was touched on top of the exposed fuse metal part. The idea behind this procedure is to bypass the whole wireloom and see if the vehicle turns ON. If it did then my worst fear was to come true that the wireloom had developed a snag and there was one sneaky wire which was causing all the problem. But then nothing happened, the console never lit up nor the vehicle showed any signs of movement of life. I was getting really impatient and pissed of with my CBR, by now negativity had struck my mind that probably it was best not to have gone for a second hand motorcycle! But before i could start with my sorrow process @psr sir told me that we have already found the real CULPRIT!!

4) The Little Rascal: In a DC circuit motorcycle one usually has the +Ve and -Ve terminals which complete the circuit. In all DC circuit motorcycles, the +Ve terminal goes through the wiring loom and the -Ve part of the battery is usually connected to the chassis to provide the necessary earthing connection to the bike and also complete the circuit to provide the necessary power to the electrical systems of your vehicle. If for some reason eathing wire has developed some oxidation or fault then CBR 250R will completely shut down and show the same symptoms that were visible on my bike. For readers to identify where the earthing/ground wires are located on your CBR, please refer to the image below.



Pic 8: There are 4 green wires which are connected to one of the bolts of the RR unit of the Honda CBR 250r (It is located on the left hand side of the mid black panel below the rider's seat.)

He asked me to use a long insulated wire and while keeping one end of the wire touching the -Ve terminal of the battery, simply make contact of the other end with the ground/earth wires of the motorcycle which is connected to the mounting bolt of the RR unit (located on the left side of the CBR250R). This will provide direct and uninterrupted supply to the system and the vehicle will get 100% voltage thus, my motorcycle will turn ON. @psr sir was very confident that this is the "little yenna rascala" which was giving me the headaches since the past 4 weeks. I was a bit apprehensive as i was playing around with live 12 volt electricity and any wrong move will fry up the whole system, blow up fuses. But @psr sir assured me that nothing will happen and i should atleast try this and see if everything comes back on.

So again: taking the name of god, we connected one end of the insulated wire to the -Ve side terminal of the battery and then simply touched the now exposed earthing wires. And then the unthinkable happened: EUREKA MOMENT HAD FINALLY COME!! All the electrical systems came back online, the MID console did its pre-inspection checks, all the light and horns started working.

ALAS WE HAD FOUND THE CULPRIT! It was the faulty earth/ground wire which was causing all the trouble. For some weird reason it had developed resistance and as a result the vehicle was not able to complete the circuit due to absence of -Ve charge thus, the electrical system on my CBR was not able to get the required voltage to carry on with normal functioning. I then made a permanent connection of the insulated copper wire from the -Ve terminal and took the wire through the chassis and made a permanent connection to the earth/ground wires and bolted all them together really tight.







Pic 9, 10 & 11: After identifying the culprit, we then took a separate wire connected to the negative terminal of the battery and then directly connected it to the earthing wires (green ones) right next to the RR unit.

Now that the problem was resolved, the first question that came onto my mind was why on earth such a reliable brand would develop such a electrical snag as in my books Hondas were relatively bullet proof. I put my doubts in front of @psr sir and he mentioned that apparently this is an inheritant design flaw in almost all Hondas where the neutral/earthing connection from the -Ve terminal of the battery is connected to just one of the engine mounting bolts and Honda expects that the rest of the chassis will get the -Ve earthing voltage from that single point. The problem is, in very high humid and rainy places, due to oxidation between the bolt and the mounting place, slowly some amount of resistance starts building up which eventually results in very little or no current flow from the battery. Thus, the whole motorcycle shuts down and it is actually quite difficult to identify the issue. So by simply bypassing this inheritant deisgn flaw, we simply made everything better! Now the vehicle is getting 100% -Ve current flow and as per @psr sir things will be back to normal and i needn't bother with this problem ever again so long as the copper insulated wire is making contact between the -Ve- terminal of the battery and the earth connection. I got a huge weight off my chest and now just wanted to get my vehicle out on the road asap and do some tests to see if this new jugaad holds on and i don't run into any more problems.


OBSERVATIONS:

* Unexpectedly, connecting of negative terminal to the earthing wire had a profound effect on my vehicle. The low end torque has improved unbelieavebly!!! How about pulling on 3rd gear from engine speeds as low as under 2,000 rpm? sounds good doesn't it? The famous gear dance issue has more or less vanished!!

* Compared to earlier scenario, my CBR was now accelerating like mad!! 0 - 130 kmph came in a blink of an eye whereas earlier my bike was struggling to do 125 kmph.. now all one needs to do is point at the direction one wishes to go and just simply twist the throttle. There is an instant response from the engine... Mind you i am no feather weight: so this new change in character of my bike was something that took me by surprise!

* The low and mid range has improved drastically!! i would say about 15% improvement over stock bike.. that is quite astonishing!!

* The famous arthiritis of Honda CBR 250R shutting off for no reason when under hard acceleration and sudden closing off the throttle by the rider has completely vanished!! When i was doing earlier research on this subject: many of the riders had blamed that the OEM fuel map in the ECM might be the culprit, dirty throttlebody etc. However, through my mere experiement we have identified the real culprit!! It is nothing but poor earthing/ground wire connection which was causing this unwanted behaviour to crop up. Many of my fellow CBR owners had heart-to-mouth moments when this crazy problem cropped up while they were riding on the highways, trying to overtake a lorry with oncoming traffic and the engine would shut off. I can now confirm that by a simple modification, this issue will vanish on all CBRs right from 2011 model to the latest batches!!

* The radiator fan stopped turning on completely. I was scared for a while thinking that i might have blown up something. So after half an hour of rigorous riding, i came back home and like an idiot kept my engine idling at 3,000 rpm for about good 5 - 7 minutes till finally the radiator fan kicked in! Seems now with 100% electricity reaching to all the sensors, fuel injectors, fuel pump, the ECM and other electricals, the fueling has become even crisper and the engine running cooler. I am expecting an increase in FE too!!

So i now dare to steal the words of a well known parts supplier and declare: at the cost of mere 50 bucks i managed to make the OEM Honda CBR 250R "better than stock", "more powerful" and "with bulletproof reliability" and that too with no changes/modifications were done with the mechanicals of the engine. All we did was simply make the electrical connection of the -Ve terminal to the chassis better and more efficient and the performance jumped up by a huge margin!!

I would highly recommend this simple modification of making earthing connection better on any DC circuit based motorcycle and report back on this thread if you witness something different than your OEM motorcycle earlier used to make you feel. I would like to shout it aloud to all: especially the Honda CBR 250R owners: atleast try this simple mod for a bit and see if you witness the same effects as mentioned above. If performance improvement is visible amongst those CBR owners who have tried this method than we all have learned something new and shared one big EUREKA moment!!

(Psst: This method also works wonders on HH ZMA!! It has already been tried and tested by you know who )

We finally made something better than stock... phew!!


BUT ISN'T IT SO THAT THE MANUFACTURER/SVC KNOWS BEST?

So now that the readers have identified this possibility with a simple mod job, let us look at another scenario:

* Suppose i had left this issue the way it was.. i would have eventually been advised by my uncle's SVC to go a bigger one where the mechanics may have the necessary tools to identify this issue.
* In all probability the bigger SVC too wouldn't have been able to identify this issue and i would have been most likely advised to change the whole wireloom. One may imagine the cost of an OEM wireloom of Honda CBR 250R. In all probability with the changing of the whole wireloom this problem might have or might not have ceased to exist.
* Even if somehow changing wireloom would have solved the issue.. there was no guanrentee that the same won't crop up again as my current place of stay has high rain and high humidity conditions. So instead of going through a major mental trauma of spending time, money and being back to square one, i was spared of all this nonsense and the end result was something which i still can't believe is possible but i am experiencing it the first hand.. better performance!!
* I would request @psr sir to elaborate on this grounding issue related to Hondas so that the readers get to understand a fair bit of issues not just with this model but also higher up in CCs of other Honda models where multiple owners have had vehicle shutting off for no reason till all of this was routed back to earthing issue.


Hope we all have learned something new today.

Cheers,

[Divya Sharan]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

xBhp is like Hogwarts, PSR sir Dumbledore and Shiv is none other than Harry Potter himself. Both these folks have an awesome chemistry and their combination is lethal to all the Voldemorts (read problems) in the automobile world.
And somehow I feel like Neville Longbottom now. [emoji14]
As far as I remember, earth wire was fine on my broomstick, err bike. But I shall try the earthing solution if and when I encounter a similar issue.
And I also have realised that my patronus charm is going to be Dumbledore too this time around.