Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

I have been following the thread and found it interesting in many ways. I don't want to sound critical and condescending as I truly know that I have a lot to learn and will always be a learner all my life. Learning can happen at the most unexpected places and I willing to learn from anyone and everyone. As an attending physician once told Nicky Lauda "Stop thinking of it as a curse to have been given an enemy in life. It can be a blessing too. A wise man gets more from his enemies than a fool from his friends".

The above is not to in any manner say that Shiv is a enemy. On the contrary he is and has been a really good friend of mine and I miss him since he has moved back to Assam. I miss our weekend meets and bike discussions, but alas life's paths sometimes diverge and people go different ways.

Enough of the philosophy; the point of this post is why do you even want to experiment in such a manner with the bike when there are well established products like 3M Engine Oil Flush and Wynn's Engine Flush available to do the same work more efficiently and cleanly. These are reputed products by very reputed companies and not some snake oil product. Why go through this whole process of reinventing the wheel when there are already efficient wheels available?

My apologies if the above post offends anyone, just trying point out there are alternatives.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

This has been an enigma to me for a long time. There are "for" and "against".

For :
People believe that engine flush is nothing but a thicker oil with higher detergent potential. Run it through the engine oil case and they help in dissolving gums and varnishes. Branded companies do not push products into market for the heck of it. They do this with lot of research and data to prove their case and manufacturing / marketing potential.

Against :
People believe we don't need flushes all together. They throw all sorts of mileage and distance traveled without the need for a flush and call it a hoax or capitalist tantrum.

Moderates :
People who believe there is no need for a specific flush to exist and mere washing the oil case with diesel or kerosene is enough to make it presentable.

I for the case of argument do not subscribe to any of them. I just followed my heart and eyes and found flushing engine (with branded and desi diesel and kerosene) after every 10000 KM gave a fresh lease of life to my motorcycles and scooter. It helped reduce vibration, ease of gear change and over all smooth working of the engine.

Coming back to this case, all these "experiments" are not to prove a point, but to substantiate what is already known. It is not to offend anyone or anything in anyway. Its a process through which an enthusiast identifies the need and then believes in the solution available through strong reasoning.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

I am also a proud used CBR250R owner and was following this post. I was also planning to install the Earthing wire in my bike too and today only I got it installed by DIY. Though my bike wasn't having any electrical issue and i was preety much satisfied with its present performance but wanted to feel what actually happens after installing it. I got my bike serviced well with clutch plates, cam-chain and cam chain tensioner replaced(ODO is around 43k kms and is 2011 model) and drove it for 3-4 days in stock condition to basically examine before and after results. After installing earthing wire and driving it in mixed condition for around 30 kms the difference what I experienced were as follows:-

1. Engine felt considerably smoother.
2. It was building RPMs more quickly(noticeably).
3. Vibrations at higher RPM decreased.
4. Lesser radiator fan play in city traffic.

I never thought that a simple job will make my bike peppier over stock FOLLOWING

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Thank you for putting forward your opinion... no offence and none taken!! This thread always encourages to question things as it leads to productive discussions and we all end up learning something new from the respective views shared here. Agreed there are different aftermarket engine flush products from well known brands which do the job of cleaning up the engine rather well. However, the thought of using such a product without knowing the actual history/life this particular vehicle has led since, the last 20,000 kms (which looking at the results so far, in all probability is no oil change, no oil filter change: just engine oil top up!!) is something i am not at all comfortable with. The idea of using a high detergent and high ZDDP HDEO oil is to give the engine a milder treatment (lets say in layman language: using Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo instead of using shampoo with more harsher chemicals: Baby Shampoo being reference to Rimula R4 and Shampoo with Stronger chemicals being the engine flush and respective products ).

I am choosing the latter method in order to let the engine gradually adjust to the changes taking place with the usage of a superior oil. I am not sure whether this makes any sense but i believe if i use engine flush on such an engine where in all probability the internals have got coated with quite a lot of gunk and varnish, chances are all of them will be taken out at one go which may end up blocking oil galleys and cause more problems than solution. Agreed for all we know the actual scenario may not at all happen like the way i am imagining things however, the idea is to not let any such situation arise at the first place. Plus the beauty of using such an engine oil so far has been that the moment the gum and varnish are getting removed from the surface, the ZDDP is also actively coating itelf, creating a protective barrier in between the mating surfaces which has resulted in drastic reduction in engine vibrations and as a result a better performing vehicle. I am not sure whether this is a satisfactory answer but do pardon the pun as i am still a mere learner in this community and sharing things as they progress with my CBR.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.. much appreciated.

Happy to note that it is not just me who has seen and felt the difference post earth wire mod. I hope that a lot more enthusiatic CBR owners and DC based motorcylists will end up trying this simple, in-expensive mod and report back their experience/findings on this thread.

Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Dear Abhimanyu , thanks for your concern and Valued opinion. The Shell Rimula R4 is no snake oil. I had done a lot of background checks before starting to use it myself a long time ago. I had shared an opinion on the positive side of it in both in "Engine Oil Thread' and in ZMA thread...So it is not going to cause any problem in Shivang's engine.Since no CBR250 had reported using it, Shivang and me have given words of warning till we know how exactly the oil and engine work to-gether...Thanks again for the Valid concern. Regarding the use of Flush, instead of the Diesel oil , I go with Shivang's Opinion. ie., not knowing the bike's maintenance first hand , it is better to be safe than be sorry.

Like you said each expression of Valid opinion make us See New Horizons ,and a Further hunt for more knowledge starts. Hope you will continue to contribute..

Wilson4willy.....Good to see Positive results with your adding the Secondary Earthing Wire in your CBR250R.
It is Good of you to share the experience here . With each share like yours, positive experiments are encouraged and will eventually form the basis of data base , for all members to see and benefit from....
Good Luck
Ride Safe.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

with permission from the thread owner and as suggested by other FM's adding a sample pic of the spacer mod in front suspension which is a cheap solution for re-load and makes it stiff, giving better handling and more cornering fun . i will be making a detailed post soon, i was traveling a lot last few days hence couldn't do it.

this pic is not mine and taken from internet but 100% for cbr250r model. i will be posting my original pics and details soon.
all credit to the original owner for the pic.

so what we see down here is (left) 130mm spacer and (extreme right )100mm stock spacer. the owner has used chair legs and removed the base which is my opinion is low quality part. the best heavy duty and exact match is hero splendor fork rod as i mentioned before 28mm.

my suggestion would be not to go extreme with 130mm as it will be very stiff and not suitable for Indian road conditions unless you are doing mostly good highways. keep it to 110-120mm

steps:

loosen forks from t stem.
remove forks.
open forks. (dispose old oil responsibly)
remove old spacer that sits over the spring
remove springs
clean it well inside.
clean springs.
put the springs back in (make sure the dense curls parts goes in first )
Add 350ml 20w motul/Castrol (motul preferred )
drop your new longer spacers.
refit the fork. (you would need 2 people to fit it as with increased height you would need to apply pressure to make the top nut sit on grooves)
enjoy your new ride.

make sure 100% you add precise equal amount of oil to both forks.

not only this improves handling also the riding stance becomes more straighter as over period of time the sag on springs increases.



i personally use 110mm for my 5.11 height and 82kg weight. i doubt i would be comfotable with anything more than this as my touring includes
a lot of inner state highways with potholes and speed bumps. and lesser i talk bout city roads near my house. it can put leh-manali highway to
shame.


to further fine tune it wear all your riding gear and sit on the bike upright with no support. ask a friend to make the point where the fork is meeting the dust cover with a marker and get off the bike. see how much of difference is there between the bike with and without weight and calculate how much of tension you need.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Hi @shv18,

I have 2011 model it was all working fine but since 6-7 months I started seeing lot of vibrations and sometimes the vibrations can be felt in the foot pegs that are alternate from one to another. I was always got my bike checked at SVC and never used any other engine oil other recommended by Honda.

Recently I change to Shell Ultra FS 10W40 I see some of the vibrations coming down like 10% down. Its been like 700 kms so far and I see the engine oil is already blackish and while running the bike there's bubble formation, going through your thread I understand its a good thing and engine oil is doing its job.

Now coming to "experiment" as yours the Shell Rimula treatment, but I have few queries how should we drive in order to make sure Rimula is doing its job and not damaging any internals I mean like what is the ideal RPM ranges we should stick to ? and what are absolute no no ? Do you use any special fuel like Shell Power etc or do you stick to normal ones ?

And by the way I found that deposits in the engine can be caused by stop and go traffic which mostly how traffic works in Chennai.

Anybody pls feel free to answer.

Regards,
Mohan

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Thank you for sharing. Though i would request you to kindly do add some more pictures related to this topic so that any new owner can easily grasp what is being shared here. Let us try and make it as Noob friendly as possible..

In my humble opinion, Honda's so called FS oil is not an "FS oil" at all but a rebadged mineral oil. Many CBR members in the long run have experienced increase in vibrations using the OEM Honda FS oil as they cross 20k+ kms. If you intend to use Shell Rimula R4 then there is no special care or rpm limit that needs to be followed. In fact, i never bothered with any such thing and so far things have been getting better with my vehicle. Though i religiously follow one practice (not mentioned in the manual) regardless of the engine oil i use: everytime the engine is cold, i start the bike and let the engine idle for a bit till the rpm becomes steady @1500 rpms (which is usually within the first 30 - 40 seconds) and then start riding normally. In my mind, this allows the oil to circulate properly into every nook and corner of the engine thus, providing adequate protection to all the internals.

With Rimula you may experience the vibrations to come down drastically, engine temps to run little cooler and butter smooth gear shifts: though i would not like to make any "tall claims" in this regard as it is still an experiment on my CBR. If you intend to follow my footsteps, good luck with the unique experience and please do share it on this thread.

With a mere 10.7:1 compression ratio of an OEM CBR250R engine, don't bother wasting money on high octane fuel/premium petrol. Instead, stick with normal petrol which in almost all places in India is now rated @91 octane. Just make sure that the fuel bunk is not a cheater or uses pilfered fuel and is preferred by most customers, i believe that is good enough.

Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

There are no "Limits" or Restriction in your usage of Shell Rimula R4. You should try the Secondary Earth wire , and see if the Vibrations come down....even with a little loose contact the operating parameters of the ECU is shifted and may not be correct. Try using a 10sq.mm., insulated wire of 60 cm length, to connect Battery Negative to Wire loom Earth on the RR fixing Bolt . There are many Pictures in the same thread on how it is done...
Good Luck

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Now that is news to me, please shed some more information on this. As the folks who are in warranty and extended warranty will have to stick to HONDA fs oil amd cannot go anywhere else.

We all know that shell is far superior than the OEM oil. But for the love of warranty please let us know on what grounds the honda stock FS oil is termed are rebadged mineral oil.

Cheers,
Sanjay

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

HI [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION],

Thanks for quick reply will try the Rimula treatment but I have one half litre Shell FS at home will use that for another 1000 kms or so then will go for Rimula.
And will also try the earth wire mod as suggested by [MENTION=32286]psr[/MENTION] ji .

Regards,
Mohan

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R


will do asap today.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

[MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] : Thanks for the wonderful write up on revitalizing your CBR250R. This helped a great deal in my DIY servicing.

My story so far : Was drooling over CBRs for a while and badly wanted one. That was when I saw my beauty . An year old CBR250R with a little over 10k on the odo. The owner was returning to US and had to part with her. He even tried getting the bike over to US, but regulations didn't allow it (Yes he knows CBR250r is available there, had an emotional bond you see), the deal was made in a days time and cash paid. The baby was due for her 3rd free service but has crossed her 365 day schedule and service center wouldn't do it. The insurance had just lapsed two week ago and so was pollution certificate. Had these taken care of . The ownership was changed and so she was mine.

Shv18's post helped me with all the info I needed and did the following as a DIY

1.Air filter changed
2.Radiator flushed with Distilled water and vinegar, fresh OEM honda coolant added.
3.Engine oil changed to Shell Rimula R4 with Yamaha FZ oil filter. Also got Shell ultra FS which I will change to after 1K
4.Chain cleaned and lubed with Motul chain lube

Tested the baby on an empty elevated fly over and she did 140, I guess Rimula causes some slippage (Experts can confirm)

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R


Good way.

But i will tell you a much easier way out that building a spacer and such. Had done it on my Hero Honda Joy almost 8 years ago.

So the thing is that you can use the stock spacer with my process and is fully reversible.

What is to be done is like this:-


1. Pull out the stock spacer from shock.

2. Now in garages there will be lots of used bearing lying. Measure a bearing whose inner race is similar in diameter to your spacer. Outer dia should be little less that bearing race inner dia.

3. Then break the outer race of bearing and throw away the outer race and balls with cage.

4. Now insert the stock spacer into the shock and place the bearing race on the stock spacer.

5. Bearing race is 15-20 mm height so stiffness will become perfect and no sagging.

6. Bearing race are quite stronger, so nothing to worry.


Done this in 2007 on my Joy front shocks.

You can do it on the CBR as its cheaper and easy to do.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Sibun bhai and [MENTION=51754]theironhorse99[/MENTION], can you folks upload some pics of this DIY. With some photographic representation it will become easy for noobs as [MENTION=68219]shiv1[/MENTION]8 rightly said "lets make this thread noob friendly"

Cheers,
Sanjay