Helmets

[Sunnyside_up!]

Re: Helmets

I rather have a different opinion here bro, mine is almost 1.5 years old now, and the helmet has served me well, kept the wind noise to a bare minimum on speeds below 90kmph, above which there was wind noise, i think most helmets other than the big dogs have that problem, the padding quality is still top notch, no problem, I am not having any loose fitting problem too, the padding is kinda snug, I say kinda because, over the year of usage it is supposed to free a bit, but not to an extend that it wobbles around when i shake my head.

The only problem i faced was that, I had the problem with the tinted visor paint peeling off , and after a crash the lock holding the visor on the left side had a crack and that increased the wind noise too, but i changed that and it vanished. I changed both the visor and the lock mechanism. The lock mechanism costed me Rs250/- a pair. And the visor near 500Rs.

I had the plain visor of Daijya fixed, as the shop din have the ls2 plain visor in stock.



P.S: Guys, is there any difference in the quality of the daijya and ls2 visors ? Any difference in quality ??


Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

i don't think so, since both helmets are made by the same company. In fact the models are very similar, that's why the visors are interchangeable!

[metaphoric.el]

Re: Helmets

Ok so here what I noticed.

LS2 Phobia.
Build quality and design is absolutely price worthy.
The padding is of top quality.
Each mm of Visor is perfectly fit. Not even a bit of air leak.
And yes it does not moves with the Air flow till 80-90 and 100 with no air flow towards you.

For city ride, the helmet is definitely worthy.

Air flow, Wind noise according to speed.
Tested on Pulsar 220.
Bike riding position : Crouch on Tank.

As per speed :
80-90 : The air noise is not much and it's a good thing to ride on
90-100 : Noise Starts hitting your ear.
100-110 : Noise is still tolerable but yes hitting the ear drums continously.
110-120 : Feels like direct air going in Ear and you cannot hold it for long time
120-130 : Hard to ride in that position / speed with that wind in ears, wind noise and helmet going left & right even if you move your head a inch or two.
130-140 : Wind noise like no helmet (but no helmet is really more annoying, I'd done 134 in 2010 in my noobie days) and weird sounds hitting the ear drums.
140+ : Man ! It was some truck is honking next to me and I had to see RVM again & again.
Wind noise was at its best but the honk kind of noise due to over wind.


So I'm not saying the helmet sux.
It's a pretty decent helmet for its price.
Obviously the speed I mentioned hardly people go on that speed.

So it's just that if someone is going to be a router or revver..
Then Don't get this helmet or get the ear noise plugs too. !!

For city riders, its a good to go helmet helmet.

[MENTION=35815]krish2778[/MENTION]

Ya I've heard of people saying the Chrome finish peeling off.
Mine just got some scratches.
And most of them before of those flying stones that hit the visor while I'm riding.
And at that moment I feel so good that I'm wearing a helmet.

But the time I bought it the padding were proper fit but now have space for my fingers even.
Mate bcoz of over sweat in Mumbai the padding got affected.
Buying a Balaclava soon !


Posted from my iPhone via Tapa ! 📲

I believe, Phobia is the same FF350 model which I am having/bought recently (Lunatic fringe) only the graphic differs, and true about the wind noise.
Felt quite a bit of noise at speeds 110-115kmph, didn't try beyond that.
But its pretty comfortable at speeds 80-90 with still some wind noise.
But the fact is, for the comfort/looks/safety, its kinda worth the price we pay for (the budget helmet).

Well.. honestly, i was expecting a lil better performance from the FF350, well that's just me being greedy..




-
Sent from my Nexus !

[Robin Stig]

Re: Helmets

thanks bro i cleaned my visor yesterday evening with colin and it worked well

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

I got the exact same helmet with the same visor about 4 days ago. I will be changing the visor as the paint has started to peel off and also it ismt suitable for night rides.

that strange i got this helmet 3 weeks back and i already did 430km trip with this helmet.the only problem im facing is stains and bug pasted on my visor.i also plan to buy plain visor for my night rides and the shop quoted 350rs.

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

LS2 Phobia Sucks and good for city riding only.


Reasons and other testing things coming by tomorrow.


Posted from my iPhone via Tapa ! 

wow bro you are expecting too much from this helmet.i clocked 105km/h on my friends cbr150r with this helmet and it performed well.if thats your bike showed in your avatar i think your a pretty revvvv hungry guy and you may look for helmets like arai.

[Sird]

Re: Helmets

thanks bro i cleaned my visor yesterday evening with colin and it worked well

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----


that strange i got this helmet 3 weeks back and i already did 430km trip with this helmet.the only problem im facing is stains and bug pasted on my visor.i also plan to buy plain visor for my night rides and the shop quoted 350rs.

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----


wow bro you are expecting too much from this helmet.i clocked 105km/h on my friends cbr150r with this helmet and it performed well.if thats your bike showed in your avatar i think your a pretty revvvv hungry guy and you may look for helmets like arai.

See my post buddy.
I clearly mentioned the price thing.
For the price it comes, it's serving its purpose.
The 105km/h you mentioned.
For how much seconds you were on 105 ??
Must be in city ?
How was the wind flow ?
And how was your sitting position ?

_______
Imagine you're siting normally on bike and riding on 120-122.
And a heavy Air hits you and you feel even the bike is going left - right because of it.
Then you have to crouch to cut air and the wind noise at that time was unbearable.
That's what I mentioned a tourer guy should not buy this.

Please re-read my post completely.

And yes that's my pic in avatar.

P.S. : Do not use Colin as a daily purpose, you're chrome finish will loose the shine.

Ride Safe. !


Posted from my iPhone via Tapa ! 📲

[Robin Stig]

Re: Helmets

See my post buddy.
I clearly mentioned the price thing.
For the price it comes, it's serving its purpose.
The 105km/h you mentioned.
For how much seconds you were on 105 ??
Must be in city ?
How was the wind flow ?
And how was your sitting position ?

_______
Imagine you're siting normally on bike and riding on 120-122.
And a heavy Air hits you and you feel even the bike is going left - right because of it.
Then you have to crouch to cut air and the wind noise at that time was unbearable.
That's what I mentioned a tourer guy should not buy this.

Please re-read my post completely.

And yes that's my pic in avatar.

P.S. : Do not use Colin as a daily purpose, you're chrome finish will loose the shine.

Ride Safe. !


Posted from my iPhone via Tapa ! 

i done 105km/h for 5minutes,i tested on express way,cross wind was terrible,full crouch

i read your second post bro and i agree everything you said about the wind noise the only thing i cant digest is that you said 'LS2 Phobia Sucks and good for city riding only'.i know people who tour on bikes like passion pro,platina,stunner who dont go above 110 so for them ls2 ff350 can handle both city and highway pretty well.a kind suggestion from my side is to gather information about a product before you buy it so you dont have to regret it later.

oh thanks for the suggestion bro i keep that in mind.

[Rakesh Rok]

Re: Helmets

@xpranav before making my purchase, I have few questions to ask and don't feel bad if it repeated or not,
1. As you said, half open helmets aren't good, then why so many people buy them. . ?
2. Secondly nobody will ever ride a bike if they keep thinking they are going to fall down, is it right. . ?
3. I don't have a super bike, or at least an R15, i just ride a Honda Unicorn. . .
4. Again, if LS2 was recommended for everyone, then why don't Honda and Yamaha people offer them in their showrooms. . ? I have seen in both showrooms and also in Bajaj showrooms, they have either Studds or Steelbird, it's not just the price issue. . .
5. People in showrooms offer these helmets because they know it's reliable right, they don't just offer these because they make more profit and not care people. . .
6. Not everyone owns a LS2 or a THH or some other helmet which have ECE and DOT on them right. . ? So what's your take on these things. . ?

I liked TiH, LS2 (only little, that to without graphics) and also liked a Studds helmet which I saw in the Honda showroom of late. . . If the helmet is brought by the showroom itself then it should be a good one and also worthy one. . .

Cheers!!!

[Sunnyside_up!]

Re: Helmets

I read this first with some amusement and then realised that Rakesh is serious, so I though I would pitch in with my two paise...... Comments in RED.

@xpranav before making my purchase, I have few questions to ask and don't feel bad if it repeated or not,
1. As you said, half open helmets aren't good, then why so many people buy them. . ? Stupidity is an endemic disease. There are even more people who do not wear a helmet at all. That does not make them right.
2. Secondly nobody will ever ride a bike if they keep thinking they are going to fall down, is it right. . ? Wrong. Being scared means that you will be more alert. EVERYTIME I get on a bike I assume I'm going to crash, so I check my gear twice before heading out. Also find myself keeping my eyes peeled and my other senses on high alert. Been doing that for almost 30 years. Thanks to God I'm still riding.
3. I don't have a super bike, or at least an R15, i just ride a Honda Unicorn. . . My younger brother died of head injuries on a 100cc bike. True story.
4. Again, if LS2 was recommended for everyone, then why don't Honda and Yamaha people offer them in their showrooms. . ? I have seen in both showrooms and also in Bajaj showrooms, they have either Studds or Steelbird, it's not just the price issue. . . It is entirely the price issue. I work with a company that sells imported helmets all over India. Most people do not stock them because the target market for better products is smaller than the mass appeal (cheaper) products.
5. People in showrooms offer these helmets because they know it's reliable right, they don't just offer these because they make more profit and not care people. . . You my friend have a lot of growing up to do. It is ALWAYS about money, especially at these commercial establishments. I can tell you some horror stories about how some unscrupulous people are literally gambling with the lives of the common rider. Offline.
6. Not everyone owns a LS2 or a THH or some other helmet which have ECE and DOT on them right. . ? So what's your take on these things. . ? You're absolutely right - you can also wear a scooped out watermelon like the ad on TV to get past the cops. Your brothers on the forum do not benefit in any way by advising you. They simply wanted to share what they have learnt. It is entirely your choice whether you want to follow their advice or not. The right to remain uneducated is also guaranteed by the constitution.

I liked TiH, LS2 (only little, that to without graphics) and also liked a Studds helmet which I saw in the Honda showroom of late. . . If the helmet is brought by the showroom itself then it should be a good one and also worthy one. . . Refer my response to point no. 5 .

Cheers!!!

[prateek2210]

Re: Helmets

1. As you said, half open helmets aren't good, then why so many people buy them. . ?
2. Secondly nobody will ever ride a bike if they keep thinking they are going to fall down, is it right. . ?
3. I don't have a super bike, or at least an R15, i just ride a Honda Unicorn. . .
4. Again, if LS2 was recommended for everyone, then why don't Honda and Yamaha people offer them in their showrooms. . ? I have seen in both showrooms and also in Bajaj showrooms, they have either Studds or Steelbird, it's not just the price issue. . .
5. People in showrooms offer these helmets because they know it's reliable right, they don't just offer these because they make more profit and not care people. . .
6. Not everyone owns a LS2 or a THH or some other helmet which have ECE and DOT on them right. . ? So what's your take on these things. . ?

Why so much hulaboo on getting a helmet? You asked us the options, we gave it. Now its upto you what and why you want.
Answering your questions now :
1) Because every helmet serves different purpose and most of the "commuters", dont know the actual use of helmet.
2) That does not guarantee that you will never fall, no one is "perfect".
3) When did bike became proportional to the helmet? *Facepalm*
4) Do you know that selling a helmet is mandatory with every bike, and they are doing "business" and what better to earn profit from India based helmet companies.
5) Answered in 4)
6) Choice is personal matter, LS2 and THH falls in your price bracket, thats why we recommended you those, increase your budget and get Arai or Shoei, no one is going to stop you.

Now I hope your next post would be with the pic of helmet of your choice and I hope all your doubts are cleared.

[Rakesh Rok]

Re: Helmets

@Sunnyside_up! and @prateek2210 got my answers and as you said prateek i'll reply back with the helmet pics and to be true, I am not blabbing for getting a helmet or thinking too much to spend on a helmet because how much ever I spend, it's for my safety, just asked as many of those prefer our Indian made helmets too, that's it. . .

Cheers!!!

[princesirohi]

Re: Helmets

@xpranav before making my purchase, I have few questions to ask and don't feel bad if it repeated or not,1. As you said, half open helmets aren't good, then why so many people buy them. . ?2. Secondly nobody will ever ride a bike if they keep thinking they are going to fall down, is it right. . ?3. I don't have a super bike, or at least an R15, i just ride a Honda Unicorn. . .4. Again, if LS2 was recommended for everyone, then why don't Honda and Yamaha people offer them in their showrooms. . ? I have seen in both showrooms and also in Bajaj showrooms, they have either Studds or Steelbird, it's not just the price issue. . .5. People in showrooms offer these helmets because they know it's reliable right, they don't just offer these because they make more profit and not care people. . .6. Not everyone owns a LS2 or a THH or some other helmet which have ECE and DOT on them right. . ? So what's your take on these things. . ?I liked TiH, LS2 (only little, that to without graphics) and also liked a Studds helmet which I saw in the Honda showroom of late. . . If the helmet is brought by the showroom itself then it should be a good one and also worthy one. . .Cheers!!!

my answers--

(4) Studds and steelbird are ISI approved helmets, whereas imported ones like LS2, CROSS etc are not. and in india you need an ISI approved helmet. even SOL is not an ISI approved one, i guess.

(6) an ISI approved helmet is adequate to protect your head. ofcourse you can buy costly helmets -(1) if they claim that they are certified to better standards. (2) and if you believe them that they are actually tested (3) and if you feel that you are not buying a duplicate product with just a fancy design.

i have seen quality control flaws in LS2 & CROSS, serious ones, but never in a studds helmet. they are cheap, effective and VFM.

although my last CROSS helmet was stolen and i am going to buy an LS2 this week, but that is just for wind noise and aerodynamic stability, moreover now i have sufficient knowledge to thoroughly check the helmet for any quality related flaws.

just ask the shop owner/dealer/distributor/owner etc... if these are companies are so serious of doing business in india, what is stopping them from getting an ISI certification...??

[xpranav]

Re: Helmets

i have seen quality control flaws in LS2 & CROSS, serious ones, but never in a studds helmet. they are cheap, effective and VFM.

kindly share a few pics (if avlb) and your experience, it will be surely a learning experience for me

moreover now i have sufficient knowledge to thoroughly check the helmet for any quality related flaws.

Please provide a brief check list of the points.

just ask the shop owner/dealer/distributor/owner etc... if these are companies are so serious of doing business in india, what is stopping them from getting an ISI certification...??

Wooooopss !! .............. kindly extend your words on this specifically if you have come across anything

----consecutive posts auto-merged-----

i'll reply back with the helmet pics

Roger That .................. Now don't you dare to show up on the thread without one (Joking)

[Sunnyside_up!]

Re: Helmets

Again my comments in RED.

my answers--

(4) Studds and steelbird are ISI approved helmets, whereas imported ones like LS2, CROSS etc are not. and in india you need an ISI approved helmet. even SOL is not an ISI approved one, i guess. That is NOT true. Helmets are not under the BIS Mandatory certification list. See here - http://www.bis.org.in/cert/man.pdf. Also helmet laws vary from state to state and therefore it is next to impossible to enforce. That's why all motorcycle showrooms don't sell helmets.

(6) an ISI approved helmet is adequate to protect your head. ofcourse you can buy costly helmets -(1) if they claim that they are certified to better standards. (2) and if you believe them that they are actually tested (3) and if you feel that you are not buying a duplicate product with just a fancy design. Absolutely true. But if you can have a standard better than the ISI, which by the way is also full of fake labelling, why not use that?

i have seen quality control flaws in LS2 & CROSS, serious ones, but never in a studds helmet. they are cheap, effective and VFM. I have seen defects on ALL brands, including Arai, and my experience is that the cheaper you go down the chain, the more defects crop up, simply because they cannot afford proper quality control.

although my last CROSS helmet was stolen and i am going to buy an LS2 this week, but that is just for wind noise and aerodynamic stability, moreover now i have sufficient knowledge to thoroughly check the helmet for any quality related flaws.

just ask the shop owner/dealer/distributor/owner etc... if these are companies are so serious of doing business in india, what is stopping them from getting an ISI certification...??

The fact that it is not mandatory by law to have an ISI certification to import and sell makes the question moot. The moment that it does become mandatory, everyone will!

[evyavan]

Re: Helmets

(6) an ISI approved helmet is adequate to protect your head. ofcourse you can buy costly helmets

Hey Prince, I just wanted to share something with regard to the quoted point. There was an incident in Thrissur, Kerala where a helmet exploded while the rider was wearing it. And that helmet had ISI branding on it. There are a lot of street vendors here who sell helmets and most of them have ISI branding on them. Hence it's safe to assume that getting ISI certification or faking it isn't really hard, and as is with any certification.

Regarding your claim that ISI certification is needed for helmets to be sold here [MENTION=29015]Sunnyside_up![/MENTION] has already given the answers.

[princesirohi]

Re: Helmets

kindly share a few pics (if avlb) and your experience, it will be surely a learning experience for me

the CROSS helmet padding was bulging outside from helmet (lower part of helmet) due to which it used to get wet in rains, no other helmet have this flaw, god knows why i purchased it, and the velvet like material wore off within days of purchase, and used to come off if you rub your fingers on it. i discussed/argued/threatened with the showroom owner (champion sports) for a replacement, didn't get any. then went to authorized dealer for india of CROSS & LS2 helmets (laxmi automobiles), he said, he can't do anything but the helmet is genuine and not fake.

by this time i was pretty much frustrated with the helmet, and accepted it as it is, later on while cleaning, one day i noticed the thermocol padding had a hole in it, which according to me is a serious flaw and is directly related to the safety of your head. but by this time i was already frustrated with this helmet, so didn't raised an issue, but i have described it here on xbhp in this very thread.

sorry, i do not have pics...

Yes, helmets sold there are reliable (unless some unscupulous dealer is selling you fakes), but wouldn't you want the best you can afford? It's your head/skull/brains you talking about! If I give you the option of medium quality X brand with higher quality Y brand with highest quality Z brand of helmet and tell you to choose one before I am going to hit your head with a sledgehammer ... which one would you choose? Would you want to try with X first and then go better, that is if you still would have a head after round 1?

been through round-1 and survived well with studds.

[MENTION=45506]sunnys[/MENTION]ide_up:

(1) whether or not motorcycle stores sell helmets is not the point of discussion. yes helmet certification is not mandatory by BIS, but in most of the states of india, an ISI certified helmet is mandatory by law.

(2) true, if there is a better standard than ISI, lets use it, but again, point is not that. the point is why not get it certified by the BIS, so that there is a certain degree of credibility to the brand in india. if it adds to the credibility, what is the harm..?? and not to mention, riders can use it without the harassment of cops, who want an ISI certified helmet, which is mandatory not by BIS but by the law in most states. why not save the hassle of arguing with ppl like me and not to mention cops.

tell me do you see BIS hallmark on gold ornaments when you buy jwellery, which by the way is not included in the list supplied by you. there are n number of items in indian market which are certified by BIS and are market as ISI approved ones, and they do get the desired credibility of being a good quality product. it only increases your reputation as a brand, and help to get more customers. i really fail to understand why should these helmet companies avoid getting an ISI certification.

Hey Prince, I just wanted to share something with regard to the quoted point. There was an incident in Thrissur, Kerala where a helmet exploded while the rider was wearing it. And that helmet had ISI branding on it. There are a lot of street vendors here who sell helmets and most of them have ISI branding on them. Hence it's safe to assume that getting ISI certification or faking it isn't really hard, and as is with any certification.

Regarding your claim that ISI certification is needed for helmets to be sold here @Sunnyside_up! has already given the answers.

well, there are many other things associated with helmet than just an ISI mark, first one is age, if seriously affects the cushioning and old helmets do not provide same level of protection, second is condition of outer shell...etc etc..other than the simple fact that it could be a duplicate one sold on road side.

i am basically talking about studds/vega/steelbird.

[Sunnyside_up!]

Re: Helmets

Yep, in RED again !

@sunnyside_up:

(1) whether or not motorcycle stores sell helmets is not the point of discussion. yes helmet certification is not mandatory by BIS, but in most of the states of india, an ISI certified helmet is mandatory by law.

Again NOT true.

Most states in the Indian Union do NOT have a clear and enforceable helmet law at all. In fact it is the police forces in certain Tier 1 cities that have enforced a helmet law, while many other simply "advise" riders to wear helmets. Most Tier 2 cities do not have even this "advisory" and in fact almost none of Tier 3. Again, if you go into the actual wording of the law in most states, it is states that the helmet must be " at least equal to or exceed the standards set by the BIS, which can be identified by the ISI mark" ( I'm paraphrasing - not verbatim ). The intent of the law was to set a minimum standard and not define the ISI mark. Basically prevent people from using plastic buckets instead of proper helmets. That is the reason that the police first enforced and then withdrew the ISI rule in cities like Mumbai and Delhi, when challenged legally. Of course the poor standard of awareness and discipline within our police forces means that the odd cop will still try to squeeze you for a few rupees when he can, citing this vague rule. We all know what the cops are like when they want to harass you anyway.

If you know something about the BIS and its workings, you will know that most hall-marking is simply a commercial exercise and there is no enforcement at all in non mandatory fields. So technically, if you buy a ISI marked product from a non mandatory list, you are simply buying a product that has paid some money to the BIS in order that it can carry this seal. The onus of conformity to this standard lies entirely on the manufacturer who is expected to be honest and meet the quality standards set by the BIS. Since non-mandatory fields like helmets do not have any kind of mandatory testing of manufactured products, you can only imagine the standards being followed. Also, EVERY new model is supposed to undergo testing before getting the ISI mark, and get listed separately under the BIS. However the reality is that most manufacturers simply make one model undergo testing - that too the first certification batch - and then apply the mark indiscriminately across ALL their models. So many of these models have never actually been tested but carry the ISI mark, by virtue of one of their manufacturers models did at one time get certified - once. The whole system is flawed, poorly monitored and manipulated to the point that true quality manufacturers get frustrated. Can you imagine asking Michelin and BridgeStone, two of the leading tyre companies in the world to get their tyres, which are subject to the strictest standards in the world to get certified again by the ISI? Thats like asking PhD's to qualify for school exams again. This is simply a stumbling block engineered by the local manufacturers lobby. All this information is available and verifiable and I will be more than willing to discuss with you offline.


(2) true, if there is a better standard than ISI, lets use it, but again, point is not that. the point is why not get it certified by the BIS, so that there is a certain degree of credibility to the brand in india. if it adds to the credibility, what is the harm..?? and not to mention, riders can use it without the harassment of cops, who want an ISI certified helmet, which is mandatory not by BIS but by the law in most states. why not save the hassle of arguing with ppl like me and not to mention cops.

Genuine international manufacturers go through stringent quality checks to meet standards that are far higher than the BIS. They sell in markets which have testing norms that are stringent and also enforceable. They enjoy international reputations built over years - why would they bother getting BIS marked unless mandatory? You expect them to shell out money to the BIS just so that they can put the ISI mark on their products when they already have higher standards? Thankfully their business and reputations are much larger that it does not depend on myopic people who enjoy pointless arguments and the whims and fancies of the traffic police.

tell me do you see BIS hallmark on gold ornaments when you buy jwellery, which by the way is not included in the list supplied by you. there are n number of items in indian market which are certified by BIS and are market as ISI approved ones, and they do get the desired credibility of being a good quality product. it only increases your reputation as a brand, and help to get more customers. i really fail to understand why should these helmet companies avoid getting an ISI certification.

I've already explained why above. The fact that we're digressing prevents me from explaining your flawed jewellery analogy too. Again, you should get into facts and arm yourself with full knowledge instead of half-learned hearsay. Something that is not mandatory and therefore not enforceable has no guarantee. Simple common sense. I feel sorry if you have been buying stuff by the strength of just the ISI mark. I for one prefer to research, investigate and make informed decisions, which is what many members here were trying to do to help a newbie when you decided to wade in with your opinion and digression. Before you make arguments that are not properly founded, please remember that many young and inexperienced riders look to seniors like yourself to guide them and may take your words literally.

After all your arguments and preaching, could you please tell me what ISI helmet you're wearing?


well, there are many other things associated with helmet than just an ISI mark, first one is age, if seriously affects the cushioning and old helmets do not provide same level of protection, second is condition of outer shell...etc etc..other than the simple fact that it could be a duplicate one sold on road side. The cheapest full face officially ISI marked helmet sold in India is for Rs.249/-. It's very popular, made by a big company and is primarily sold on the roadside. I would prefer a scooped out watermelon.

i am basically talking about studds/vega/steelbird. I will be happy to share with you details of some models from within these three that have not actually been registered with BIS but carry the ISI mark. Offline.

Please note that I am not against Indian helmets or the BIS. For the first 18 years of my riding I used only these and they have saved my life on several occasions and I am eternally grateful. Today, we have better standards and products available. Therefore should we not look at upgrading or getting the best that we can afford in a matter of personal safety? I believe that we're all brothers here sharing our passion and experiences - lets learn from each other and spread the word, rather than have pointless discussions on issues of little relevance.