Helmets

[Rakesh Rok]

Re: Helmets

Guys, [MENTION=15693]princesirohi[/MENTION], @evyavan, [MENTION=29015]Sunnyside_up![/MENTION], [MENTION=61439]TranquilRage[/MENTION], [MENTION=13887]prateek2210[/MENTION] and [MENTION=59642]xpranav[/MENTION],
I am fully confused with all these comments, firstly let me tell about things clearly. . . I have been riding motorcycle from past 8 years and I was one of those idiots who never used to wear helmets, ride notoriously, etc,. until of late I got realized by someone, so started wearing helmets (please don't scold me, I have learnt my lesson now and started wearing proper riding gears). . . I don't think the present helmet which I am using is so good, don't trust it so much, so wanna get a better helmet, I have been reading more and reviewing their websites and so, I zeroed it down to Steelbirds and Studds as most people prefer only either of these brands and as they are also sold out in Showrooms too. . . I know and I have seen people selling out helmets in road sides which have ISI mark on them, they may be even a copy or something of the Studds, Vega or others, now my point is this, I am not going to buy this ISI certified from a well known dealer, not from a road side vender, you got my point. . . I have been asking many before getting an helmet now, if I ask with regular people who don't care so much, "they ask me to get an helmet by roadside or some helmet like Vega or something and not to spend above 1-1.5k for helmets" that's what fools say and I am not listening their words either, so after asking with other professional riders and some team members, even they recommended LS2 and after I asked them about the Indian standard brands, they said either Steelbirds or Studds is the best you can get. . . Ok now I'll expand my budget a little more to 3k and a little more than that, again money is not and never been important to me in my life, money comes and goes and also money can't buy everything, that's what I feel and learnt. . . So that's what I feel and that's why I want to buy a good helmet and for the above said people's answers for my previously asked question 2, I disagree with all because if you feel and know that you will fall, you are definitely can't ride a BIKE, yes, I too have that fear somewhere in the corner stating that I might fall but if I keep thinking about it every time I read my bike, I would have ended up traveling by bus or rickshaws by now. . . we should have fear about everything but only little, if we fear too much, we can't do or achieve anything in our life. . . Everyone's views here are different, some matches and others opposite to that. . . So, after reviewing all your answers and also when I will be going to buy the helmet, I'll take everything into consideration, speak with the shop person and try to get a good helmet from a good and well known dealer and not from a roadside vendor. . . Thank you all. . . BTW just now had a conversation with my friend about buying an helmet and I said the options which I am looking for, his view also the same, get a Vega and I said there are other brands which offer better protection during accident times, he said are you the person speaking this. . ? and why do you look at meeting up with accidents and take a helmet with that. . . I think that's something to think about. . . Finally to all, have to use my brains and think before I make a good purchase... that's it. . .

Cheers!!!

[pageisgod85]

Re: Helmets

All I have to say about this ongoing melee is that a helmet (or any protective riding gear for that matter) is a like medical insurance. You may never need it, but in the unfortunate case that you do need it, you wouldn't want to regret for life about not having opted for the best one that you could afford in the first place.

Having used a Vega Boolean and a Studds Ninja over a span of 6 years and having recently upgraded to an LS2 Phobia (would have gone for a SOL if my budget permitted it), I can say from personal experience that the 1k premium for my LS2 is totally worth it. The Boolean felt like an awkwardly shaped bucket while the Phobia feels like it's practically made for my head.

[Rakesh Rok]

Re: Helmets

don't say I am just concerned about the helmet and it's cost, now as a responsible rider, at least I'll be wearing a helmet and hand gloves everyday ride to office. . . While go on weekend rides, I make sure to wear Helmet, Gloves, Jackets and sports shoes. . . Looking forward to buying a elbow and knee pads and also armor too and after I started my team, the theme of my team is also that "(blah blah blah) with safe biking" and that's what I advice my riders to be using good gears for riding. . . Now after I learnt about the safety and good gears, I have been educating others around me to get good quality products and not to opt for some products just because they get it for cheap and so on,. but even some are there who doesn't care and continue with their life as foolish riders while others take my words and follow what I say. . . I thinks that's all I can say and think, decide and get a better helmet for my own safety. . .

Cheers!!!

[niranjanvaidya]

Re: Helmets

Yep, in RED again !




Please note that I am not against Indian helmets or the BIS. For the first 18 years of my riding I used only these and they have saved my life on several occasions and I am eternally grateful. Today, we have better standards and products available. Therefore should we not look at upgrading or getting the best that we can afford in a matter of personal safety? I believe that we're all brothers here sharing our passion and experiences - lets learn from each other and spread the word, rather than have pointless discussions on issues of little relevance.

+1 to your views

I usually ask people a simple question..."if you were to fall off a bike, would you/your mind be at ease if you and an ISI certified helmet? OR, would that comfort level change if you had an SNELL compliant helmet?"

[prateek2210]

Re: Helmets

[MENTION=59533]Rakesh Rok[/MENTION] : Sport shoes???? Are you kidding me? They have no protection at all.

Anyways this thread has become boring now, honestly. I am done with my "preaching".
As others say, excess of anything is bad, be it questions or explanations, in this case.

[Sunnyside_up!]

Re: Helmets

@Rakesh Rok : Sport shoes???? Are you kidding me? They have no protection at all.

Anyways this thread has become boring now, honestly. I am done with my "preaching".
As others say, excess of anything is bad, be it questions or explanations, in this case.

^^^ I totally agree. This horse has been kicked enough and is well and truly dead.
[MENTION=6695]Rakesh[/MENTION] - buddy, if you are still confused after all the very lucid explanations given by so many members ( with one exception ) then you are definitely beyond our help and I guess we can only wish you good luck! There is only so much spoon-feeding that you can expect. Now its time you did your own research and study - after all, its YOUR head!

Cheers!

[thegeneboy]

Re: Helmets

@thegeneboy It will be so nice of you to share with us a few pics of your newest possession ............. if possible snap them in daytime

Damn I totally forgot about uploading pics.. I will do it by tonight for sure.. One pic for now though

[princesirohi]

Re: Helmets

[MENTION=45506]sunnys[/MENTION]ide_up:


"If you know something about the BIS and its workings, you will know that most hall-marking is simply a commercial exercise and there is no enforcement at all in non mandatory fields. So technically, if you buy a ISI marked product from a non mandatory list, you are simply buying a product that has paid some money to the BIS in order that it can carry this seal. "

i disagree, your just cant put an ISI mark by just paying an X amount of money, the product has to be tested.


"The onus of conformity to this standard lies entirely on the manufacturer who is expected to be honest and meet the quality standards set by the BIS. Since non-mandatory fields like helmets do not have any kind of mandatory testing of manufactured products, you can only imagine the standards being followed."

there are different type of test for different type of products- type testing, batch testing etc..but without testing you can not put ISI mark.


"that too the first certification batch - and then apply the mark indiscriminately across ALL their models. So many of these models have never actually been tested but carry the ISI mark, by virtue of one of their manufacturers models did at one time get certified - once."



"that too the first certification batch - and then apply the mark indiscriminately across ALL their models. "

what makes you assume this, and what makes you think that we will believe that this doesn't happen with DOT or ECE. these type of things happen in all countries.


Can you imagine asking Michelin and BridgeStone, two of the leading tyre companies in the world to get their tyres, which are subject to the strictest standards in the world to get certified again by the ISI?

yes, a big yes, if they are so sure of there quality, what is stopping them from getting an ISI certification for india, while everybody will discuss a lot of other things, which are not related, nobody actually answers the real question, why dont they get their products certified by ISI, plz answer the basic question rather than discussing things which are of less important like which states enforce ISI helmets or not. while doing business in india, why do these companies not get their products certified by an indian testing & certification agency. what is the actual problem.


Thats like asking PhD's to qualify for school exams again. This is simply a stumbling block engineered by the local manufacturers lobby. All this information is available and verifiable and I will be more than willing to discuss with you offline.

it is NOT a stumbling block, my friend , it is a way to set certain minimum standards so that end consumers get a quality product. i really fail to understand if studds/vega/steelbird can get an ISI certification, all of a sudden how it becomes a stumbling block for LS2/Cross/SOL etc.

and your phd and school exam example is wrong, coz if they have done education from different boards, then you have to undergo a entrance exam to judge how good you really are, and ISI is just the same.

and btw, if we have to discuss serious things offline then there will be no need of xbhp.


Genuine international manufacturers go through stringent quality checks to meet standards that are far higher than the BIS. They sell in markets which have testing norms that are stringent and also enforceable. They enjoy international reputations built over years - why would they bother getting BIS marked unless mandatory? You expect them to shell out money to the BIS just so that they can put the ISI mark on their products when they already have higher standards? Thankfully their business and reputations are much larger that it does not depend on myopic people who enjoy pointless arguments and the whims and fancies of the traffic police.

plz do not repeat the same thing again and agin that they are good quality and wont bother ISI, well if they dont bother ISI, go and do business somewhere else, when in india, plz follow indian rules and standards. today they wont bother ISI, tommorrow they wont bother to pay taxes... isn't it..

btw, this discussion is not pointless, it is a very serious one, ppl, who do not want to answer serious questions makes it look like a pointless discussion.


I've already explained why above. The fact that we're digressing prevents me from explaining your flawed jewellery analogy too. Again, you should get into facts and arm yourself with full knowledge instead of half-learned hearsay. Something that is not mandatory and therefore not enforceable has no guarantee. Simple common sense. I feel sorry if you have been buying stuff by the strength of just the ISI mark. I for one prefer to research, investigate and make informed decisions, which is what many members here were trying to do to help a newbie when you decided to wade in with your opinion and digression. Before you make arguments that are not properly founded, please remember that many young and inexperienced riders look to seniors like yourself to guide them and may take your words literally.

nothing is half learned heresay, -"Something that is not mandatory and therefore not enforceable has no guarantee" similarly something which is not verifyable also has no guarentee, a helmet produced in some other contry and certified in yet another country is sold in a third country (read india), there is no real way of verifying the claims. when i purchased CROSS helmet, it even didn't had a proper website, ofcourse they realised it and now it has. poor state of affairs.

I feel sorry if you have been buying stuff by the strength of just the ISI mark. I for one prefer to research, investigate and make informed decisions

well i and most others also research, investigate and then make informed decisions, but having an ISI mark does adds weight to the quality of product.

After all your arguments and preaching, could you please tell me what ISI helmet you're wearing?

studds, for the time being, and rest i have already mentioned in my previous post.

The cheapest full face officially ISI marked helmet sold in India is for Rs.249/-. It's very popular, made by a big company and is primarily sold on the roadside. I would prefer a scooped out watermelon.

plz do not use such exagerration, innocent minds may take it seriously. btw, that ISI mark helmet may be better than other roadside helmets without ISI, btw, even an open face studds helmet without visor cost around 500-600, i do not know which manufacturer, you are talking about. plz be more specific.


will be happy to share with you details of some models from within these three that have not actually been registered with BIS but carry the ISI mark. Offline.

well, i do not really believe in this offline stuff, it makes things fishy, isn't it. if you really want everybody to have more knowledge, why not share it here..??


Please note that I am not against Indian helmets or the BIS. For the first 18 years of my riding I used only these and they have saved my life on several occasions and I am eternally grateful. Today, we have better standards and products available. Therefore should we not look at upgrading or getting the best that we can afford in a matter of personal safety? I believe that we're all brothers here sharing our passion and experiences - lets learn from each other and spread the word, rather than have pointless discussions on issues of little relevance.

similarly i am also not against any imported or costly helmets, and surely we should go for a better helmet if we can afford it, the question was why they do not go for ISI certification.

if you can not trust ISI certification in India, how can we trust a helmet manufactured in one country, tested in second country and sold in third country.


i wonder why you call this discussion pointless, our lives depend on it man, and a gentle request, if you can use some other color rather than red and tone down your reply a little towards a frendly discussion, i will be thankful.

What I meant to say by that example is explained in that point by - 'but wouldn't you want the best you can afford?' - and is similarly echoed by what I have highlighted in Sunnyside's quote below.

brother everyone wants the best they can afford, the question was why they do not get their products certified by an indian standard, if there is no harm in it. just blindly following west is also not good.
[MENTION=59533]Rakesh Rok[/MENTION]: it depends on how much you want to spend and what you want.

if you want protection to your head and your budget is not beyond studds/vega, go for it, however if you want more like - reduced wind noise, better ventilation, better aerodynamic stability, funky design, you can go for LS2/CROSS/SOL etc however i just wanted to point out that they are not ISI certified, and some may be fakes too, not to mention these are heavier than indian helmets.

+1 to your views

I usually ask people a simple question..."if you were to fall off a bike, would you/your mind be at ease if you and an ISI certified helmet? OR, would that comfort level change if you had an SNELL compliant helmet?"

you can also ask if that what will happenif the ISI marked helmet is a genuine one whereas that SNELL approved one is not.

[Neofate]

Re: Helmets

@sunnyside_up:


"If you know something about the BIS and its workings, you will know that most hall-marking is simply a commercial exercise and there is no enforcement at all in non mandatory fields. So technically, if you buy a ISI marked product from a non mandatory list, you are simply buying a product that has paid some money to the BIS in order that it can carry this seal. "

i disagree, your just cant put an ISI mark by just paying an X amount of money, the product has to be tested.


"The onus of conformity to this standard lies entirely on the manufacturer who is expected to be honest and meet the quality standards set by the BIS. Since non-mandatory fields like helmets do not have any kind of mandatory testing of manufactured products, you can only imagine the standards being followed."

there are different type of test for different type of products- type testing, batch testing etc..but without testing you can not put ISI mark.


"that too the first certification batch - and then apply the mark indiscriminately across ALL their models. So many of these models have never actually been tested but carry the ISI mark, by virtue of one of their manufacturers models did at one time get certified - once."



"that too the first certification batch - and then apply the mark indiscriminately across ALL their models. "

what makes you assume this, and what makes you think that we will believe that this doesn't happen with DOT or ECE. these type of things happen in all countries.


Can you imagine asking Michelin and BridgeStone, two of the leading tyre companies in the world to get their tyres, which are subject to the strictest standards in the world to get certified again by the ISI?

yes, a big yes, if they are so sure of there quality, what is stopping them from getting an ISI certification for india, while everybody will discuss a lot of other things, which are not related, nobody actually answers the real question, why dont they get their products certified by ISI, plz answer the basic question rather than discussing things which are of less important like which states enforce ISI helmets or not. while doing business in india, why do these companies not get their products certified by an indian testing & certification agency. what is the actual problem.


Thats like asking PhD's to qualify for school exams again. This is simply a stumbling block engineered by the local manufacturers lobby. All this information is available and verifiable and I will be more than willing to discuss with you offline.

it is NOT a stumbling block, my friend , it is a way to set certain minimum standards so that end consumers get a quality product. i really fail to understand if studds/vega/steelbird can get an ISI certification, all of a sudden how it becomes a stumbling block for LS2/Cross/SOL etc.

and your phd and school exam example is wrong, coz if they have done education from different boards, then you have to undergo a entrance exam to judge how good you really are, and ISI is just the same.

and btw, if we have to discuss serious things offline then there will be no need of xbhp.


Genuine international manufacturers go through stringent quality checks to meet standards that are far higher than the BIS. They sell in markets which have testing norms that are stringent and also enforceable. They enjoy international reputations built over years - why would they bother getting BIS marked unless mandatory? You expect them to shell out money to the BIS just so that they can put the ISI mark on their products when they already have higher standards? Thankfully their business and reputations are much larger that it does not depend on myopic people who enjoy pointless arguments and the whims and fancies of the traffic police.

plz do not repeat the same thing again and agin that they are good quality and wont bother ISI, well if they dont bother ISI, go and do business somewhere else, when in india, plz follow indian rules and standards. today they wont bother ISI, tommorrow they wont bother to pay taxes... isn't it..

btw, this discussion is not pointless, it is a very serious one, ppl, who do not want to answer serious questions makes it look like a pointless discussion.


I've already explained why above. The fact that we're digressing prevents me from explaining your flawed jewellery analogy too. Again, you should get into facts and arm yourself with full knowledge instead of half-learned hearsay. Something that is not mandatory and therefore not enforceable has no guarantee. Simple common sense. I feel sorry if you have been buying stuff by the strength of just the ISI mark. I for one prefer to research, investigate and make informed decisions, which is what many members here were trying to do to help a newbie when you decided to wade in with your opinion and digression. Before you make arguments that are not properly founded, please remember that many young and inexperienced riders look to seniors like yourself to guide them and may take your words literally.

nothing is half learned heresay, -"Something that is not mandatory and therefore not enforceable has no guarantee" similarly something which is not verifyable also has no guarentee, a helmet produced in some other contry and certified in yet another country is sold in a third country (read india), there is no real way of verifying the claims. when i purchased CROSS helmet, it even didn't had a proper website, ofcourse they realised it and now it has. poor state of affairs.

I feel sorry if you have been buying stuff by the strength of just the ISI mark. I for one prefer to research, investigate and make informed decisions

well i and most others also research, investigate and then make informed decisions, but having an ISI mark does adds weight to the quality of product.

After all your arguments and preaching, could you please tell me what ISI helmet you're wearing?

studds, for the time being, and rest i have already mentioned in my previous post.

The cheapest full face officially ISI marked helmet sold in India is for Rs.249/-. It's very popular, made by a big company and is primarily sold on the roadside. I would prefer a scooped out watermelon.

plz do not use such exagerration, innocent minds may take it seriously. btw, that ISI mark helmet may be better than other roadside helmets without ISI, btw, even an open face studds helmet without visor cost around 500-600, i do not know which manufacturer, you are talking about. plz be more specific.


will be happy to share with you details of some models from within these three that have not actually been registered with BIS but carry the ISI mark. Offline.

well, i do not really believe in this offline stuff, it makes things fishy, isn't it. if you really want everybody to have more knowledge, why not share it here..??


Please note that I am not against Indian helmets or the BIS. For the first 18 years of my riding I used only these and they have saved my life on several occasions and I am eternally grateful. Today, we have better standards and products available. Therefore should we not look at upgrading or getting the best that we can afford in a matter of personal safety? I believe that we're all brothers here sharing our passion and experiences - lets learn from each other and spread the word, rather than have pointless discussions on issues of little relevance.

similarly i am also not against any imported or costly helmets, and surely we should go for a better helmet if we can afford it, the question was why they do not go for ISI certification.

if you can not trust ISI certification in India, how can we trust a helmet manufactured in one country, tested in second country and sold in third country.


i wonder why you call this discussion pointless, our lives depend on it man, and a gentle request, if you can use some other color rather than red and tone down your reply a little towards a frendly discussion, i will be thankful.







brother everyone wants the best they can afford, the question was why they do not get their products certified by an indian standard, if there is no harm in it. just blindly following west is also not good.
@Rakesh Rok: it depends on how much you want to spend and what you want.

if you want protection to your head and your budget is not beyond studds/vega, go for it, however if you want more like - reduced wind noise, better ventilation, better aerodynamic stability, funky design, you can go for LS2/CROSS/SOL etc however i just wanted to point out that they are not ISI certified, and some may be fakes too, not to mention these are heavier than indian helmets.




you can also ask if that what will happenif the ISI marked helmet is a genuine one whereas that SNELL approved one is not.

hi !
I have been following this thread and .....here i would like to clear a few things ALL BRANDED HELMETS ( VEGA , STUDDS , STEELBIRD ETC WHOSE RANGE STARTS FROM 800 )
Are all genuine ISI standards and which are not some joke we can make off .....products which are sold by the roadside are not genuine isi and they come from delhi and should not be compared to these brands .
LS2 has ECE certification ( european standard ) may not be in the league of arai , shoeis n all but their safety standards are good . BUT definetely better than our indian helmets .for the price it is a very good helmets .

studds and steelbird do make helmets which are like ls2 but does not have the finish nor the graphics like one of the IMPORTED BRANDS


bike showrooms dont like to sell helmets , IT is the bike manufacturers who force these showrooms to sell these due to some regulations and also customer enquiring about it ( customer thinks that the bike companys make these helmets well THEY DO NOT ---- most showrooms buy there helmets from helmet companys and wholesalers and distributors ) . that is the reason they keep bare minimum stock and variety .

[niranjanvaidya]

Re: Helmets

you can also ask if that what will happenif the ISI marked helmet is a genuine one whereas that SNELL approved one is not.

I would give credibility to that statement iff there was some place where ISI approved helmet list was published. Fortunately, all people buying SNELL and SHARP rated helmets get to know where the product that they are buying stands.

On a more serious note, although Im not against ISI rating, is there any specific site/publication available where I can get to see the kind of tests that they perform on a helmet to certify it as ISI compliant...just curious.

[prateek2210]

Re: Helmets

Reminding you back once again, I don't ride to fall. . . As said, everyone's got bored of it, so will be back with the pictures of the helmet rather than continuing this unnecessarily. . .Cheers!!!

With that thick a skull, I doubt the need for a helmet in the first place.

Nice one [MENTION=12281]pageisgod85[/MENTION]

i disagree, your just cant put an ISI mark by just paying an X amount of money, the product has to be tested.

Come to Delhi/NCR and I will show you roadside bucket helmets with ISI embossed on them.
[MENTION=29015]Sunnyside_up![/MENTION] : Agree with you, seems people here want to remain ignorant, so let them be.

@All : Any queries regarding Helmet would be welcome on PM, till the time all this senseless comments and queries give way for serious help on choosing a Helmet

[niranjanvaidya]

Re: Helmets

Since I had to quench my thirst for information, I tried searching a bit and found the below link. This is the link specifying the kind of tests that helmets have to go through to get an ISI certification.

Interesting and comprehensive. http://www.bis.org.in/sf/ced/CED22_7887.pdf

[chinmayakar]

Re: Helmets

@Prince: Dude this post regarding ISI that you posted, is correct. I completely agree with you in this regards. While I use LS2, and given an option between ISI and SNELL, I would buy a SNELL, that is because I am able to afford it. However, for those folks who cannot spend more than a 1000 bucks on Helmet, Genuine ISI marked helmets are a very good and safe option. When I say Genuine I dont mean the one's that you get on the road side. I pity those folks who buy helmets from them.

You will have counterfeits for everything under the sun, however, genuine ISI marked products from reputed manufacturers are safe and good.

Not everything in India is bad, there are some institutions that have built up good reputation.

[princesirohi]

Re: Helmets

[MENTION=8137]Niranjan[/MENTION]vaidhya: i am glad you took the effort to search for the right information. i have a copy of IS code for helmets and was about to give you a link.
[MENTION=25881]chinmay[/MENTION]kar: glad that you understood my point.
[MENTION=20165]phanikar[/MENTION]: who wants to send you PM man...ha ha

[vas]

Re: Helmets

@Niranjanvaidhya: i am glad you took the effort to search for the right information. i have a copy of IS code for helmets and was about to give you a link.
@chinmaykar: glad that you understood my point.
@phanikar: who wants to send you PM man...ha ha

Mr Prince, can you provide the "copy of IS code for helmets" link? It will help me as well as bunch of other IT-bench folks who are doing nothing but browsing :-p
I am massivly impressed by your dept of information in "everything" related with wheels. Thanks again.