Bro why do think am hyper always? I have a zmr yes and i am too into occassional touring!! The zmr is suited bothe for city and touring.. A tourer cannot be a city bike? I get your point.. That he is into occassional tours.. Even i knew that.. But am stressing the fact that if your buying a bike, >150cc, occassional touring, then why not buy an economical one. It is ?1l yes but the savings you get from mileage? You've got to consider it bro.. Not at all hyper no.. Am explaining.. talking about air cool.. Am not talking about just tiny trips. It matters when you go for >1000k+ kms bro.. As i posted the link.. 800 kms at a strecth without stopping.. 1 min to refill petrol.. In such cases oil cool helps

Absolutely true!!

I personally think that liquid cools is not that quesstionable if engines <500cc, where marginal power is produced than those >500cc produces.

Originally posted by aargee View Post

In the interest of cooling down heated discussion

+1 I have an Aspire 110cc and i rode it to Pune and din't feel my bike volcanic heated in any sense, it was a 80-90kmph speed non stop. Similalrly i ride my R15 too at that same speed and i din't feel teh difference either. The only difference was R15 is capable of doing 130+kmph ...lol....

its better we end it here.. According to me for touring purpose, order of preference would be cbr250>zmr>zma>avenger>220..... Lets stop posting our previous replies and again going on a heated discussion.. Love you rides, respect them and every other, ride safe.. Bon voyage. me out for good

replies are in bold..

This thread is certainly getting my popcorn worth BTW i wanted to know where is the thread starter ?????

I am out of it...But your answers are still not that sensible for buying a ZMR for occasional touring!! It feels like banging head on wall!! Anyways i lose here!!!
But please don't make a person buy something which he don't need. Avenger is for higways only this has to be more controversial.I see many avenger in city daily.

So i don't think that avenger is only for higways??

And if you talk about fairing so to ride it for 100kmph how much fairing do we need, where as RX100 to does good 100kmph on higways.... and NS200 is anytime best for that part too!!

I can't drain my head more !!!!


And cooling system is not because of fairing dude?? If it is then why to we have many models around with liquid cooling for naked bikes??? Liquid helps to cool your engine which gets heated due to massive work of block and pistion work out!! And i don't think that R15 or ZMR or Duke produces so much of power that it could not been possible designing them with out liquid cool??

This systems are just sales tactics for us or introducing some good new techs in this modern world!!

You need to know more on cooling system bro!!

That's for him to decide Abhi. But I do agree on the rear disk and GRS point. That way, spend the same, get a rear disk+ after market the GRS onto ZMA would make it interesting! But that's purely off topic here. :P

Again, I will state this before I answer: What I said is purely my PERSONAL opinion guys. I will not say anybody here is wrong. I own an rtr. I know pros / cons. Abhi owns a ZMR, he will know the pros/ cons. I have actually ridden the 250R for over 40kms. And my observations are based on that only.
Why I don't think its VFM? Simple: Bad engineering. The man asking here says he wants a bike for two people. My Apache generates a magnificent 124bhp/ton Power to Weight Ratio. The 250r sadly has very poor figures : 152bhp/tonne. Its competitor ninja : 192bhp/ton. The 200ns: 162bhp/ton. If you know the importance of PWR, you'll know performance will fall as weight on the bike increases. Its something I don't care for. The bike is too heavy to carry itself!

For the statement marked in bold...it is not about the amount of power produced that dictates the cooling system design. By those standards, the Tatra trucks used by our Army should be liquid cooled. By the way, one of the biggest Tatra engines, a V8 produces 320 kW of power and 2100 Nm torque is air cooled.

Liquid cooling systems are not marketing gimmicks either. In some cases, a liquid cooling system simply guarantees consistent performance for larger amount of time. In almost all combustion engines, the largest heat dissipation is via the exhaust gases/exhaust. The lubricating oil is a major heat sink for engines too and hence a lot of oil cooled [oil is cooled ] engines work good.

Regarding the Duke and R15, both are typically hi-revving engines with proportionate cooling needs. The liquid cooling just ensures consistent performance.

Brothers, no offence to any one here, just posting the info. which i got on the internet. thought it might be of some help.

The Cooling System, by: Kevin Schappell


The purpose of the engine's cooling system is to remove excess heat from the engine, to keep the engine operating at its most efficient temperature, and to get the engine up to the correct temperature as soon as possible after starting. Ideally, the cooling system keeps the engine running at its most efficient temperature no matter what the operating conditions are. As fuel is burned in the engine, about one-third of the energy in the fuel is converted into power. Another third goes out the exhaust pipe unused, and the remaining third becomes heat energy. A cooling system of some kind is necessary in any internal combustion engine. If no cooling system were provided, parts would melt from the heat of the burning fuel, and the pistons would expand so much they could not move in the cylinders (called "seize").


The cooling system of a water-cooled engine consists of: the engine's water jacket, a thermostat, a water pump, a radiator and radiator cap, a cooling fan (electric or belt-driven), hoses, the heater core, and usually an expansion (overflow) tank. Fuel burning engines produce enormous amounts of heat; temperatures can reach up to 4,000 degrees F when the air-fuel mixture burns. However, normal operating temperature is about 2,000 degrees F. The cooling system removes about one-third of the heat produced in the combustion chamber. The exhaust system takes away much of the heat, but parts of the engine, such as the cylinder walls, pistons, and cylinder head, absorb large amounts of the heat. If a part of the engine gets too hot, the oil film fails to protect it. This lack of lubrication can ruin the engine.


On the other hand, if an engine runs at too low a temperature, it is inefficient, the oil gets dirty (adding wear and subtracting horsepower), deposits form, and fuel mileage is poor-- not to mention exhaust emissions! For these reasons, the cooling system is designed to stay out of the action until the engine is warmed up.


There are two types of cooling systems; liquid cooling and air cooling. Most auto engines are cooled by the liquid type; air cooling is used more frequently for airplanes, motorcycles and lawnmowers.


Liquid cooled engines have passages for the liquid, or coolant, through the cylinder block and head. The coolant has to have indirect contact with such engine parts as the combustion chamber, the cylinder walls, and the valve seats and guides. Running through the passages in the engine heats the coolant (it absorbs the heat from the engine parts), and going through the radiator cools it. After getting "cool" again in the radiator, the coolant comes back through the engine. This business continues as long as the engine is running, with the coolant absorbing and removing the engine's heat, and the radiator cooling the coolant.


A cooling system pressure tester is used to check the pressure in the cooling system, which allows the mechanic to determine if the system has any slow leaks. The leak can then be found and fixed before it causes a major problem

This is acceptable!! Excellent!! Go one bro, this will clear many doubts and facts!!

lol you rode all that 40 kms pulling the cbr then?

Ok, so based on your 40 Km of experience, CBR 250R has bad engineering...shoots!!! When you made that statement you gave an impression as if you rode it for some considerable on ODO!!!

Before all this tech funda...can I ask one simple kindergarten question? Does it make sense to compare a 2 valve, single cylinder 180 cc with 4 valve, single cylinder 200cc with 4 valve single cylinder 250cc with 8 valve two cylinder 250 cc engine & conclude something is bad/good on any reasonable common platform?

Anyway, I was genuinely interested in hearing as what went wrong with that bike. Good to know your limited experience adds not much of value.

See man, the FI used in R15, ninja, CBR 150 and 250, ZMR, Duke are thoroughly tested and checked, why you think when we give bike for servicing FI valves are cleaned and checked and refitted, Unless you dont service your bike for years together and dont clean the FI with the svc center than only the chances of FI failing are high probability. But in standard conditions a well maintained bike either used for touring, racing or even stuntings FI failing is not possible, unless the entire batch is faulty.


See man every person have their likes/dislikes, some love a splendor to do city job and touring, some a R15, some with a CBR or even ninja 650, so it is individual preferences and ones like, as if someone has money and want to buy ninja for daily office commutes and daily eatables shopping are you gonna say that guy that ninja is not meant for city, as its just your view ??

Sorry to say but its just ones opinion, and his wish what one wants to buy and use, than let him use in city/track/touring so i think your point of saying ZMR is not good for city is pointless.

Please stop the brand wars, and yes HMC has 6 lakh plus sales of 100 cc bikes which consists 70% international sales, not in india.

See even i feel if i am paying close to 1.5 or 1.8 lakhs for a bike, i would expect the bike to perform as a sports bike not mere touring, i should not be scared saying if one wet muck in down slope or some stupid muddy roads come my tyres will give up, and CBR handling while counter steering is way bad. I

Infact ZMR, ZMA-R, 220, RTR Scores more in this department. Ride any Ninja, Duke, 200NS and R15 and see the feedback it gives in handling, and making the rider confident enough, and as a customer if i am upgrading myself from any of hero or bajaj or yamaha bikes i expect the bigger bike to give me better handling than my existing steed.
CBR is selling today its just that people dont have other options apart from CBR 250R as ninja is above the budget.
Infact i felt the CBR 150R is better than the 250R.

Its not just tech specs and big engine, there is somethign called as riding which is beyond this factors, i know of a brand new CBR which was rode for 4000 kms and their radiators gone kaput, under hardbraking the front washed out, in leaning the rear given up.

@thread starter - Please let us know once you have finalised your steed.

@Shrinath - I'm giving up here for a simple reason to avoid arguments & I don't have intention to change anyone's opinion...besides...most important point...Honda isn't paying me for any biker conversion (like any Christian mission) Lol

Anyway, just want to say that every bike has it's own pros & cons no matter it's European or Japanese; on the similar lines of CBR's radiator going kaput, there're 3 engine seizure known with KTM's; anyway my point here is not to derogate any bike, just to say that every bike has it's own + & -, that's all.

End of the day, if we know our needs (like I often ride on track; I'm practical; I don't care on budget; I need pure customer care) we land up buying what we need; let it be even the worst of the hated bike manufactured, we will certainly love it for the requirement that it offers.