I never said that ZMR is not for city?? it's an alternative of commuter with touring, but when you want to do only touring then will you ask a person to go with city also?? I just suggested it mate. If you have money then why not a Ninja or more better then that. It's all about a person's choice!!
But as i am suggesting i will let that person know that if he is keen on touring then even X bike would be nice rather than Y bike, which is more costlier than that X bike.
And now if he feels no I want Y bike only then it's his choice right??

ZMR has proven it self in city as well as on highway. I was just trying to save his FEW Ks!!. Yes personal choice does matters alot.

And no one can change that what an individual thinks or wants, only can suggest. If TS has asked for city with touring then ZMR is perfect with pillion comfort and power. But INMO Avenger is not that bad in riding city or Highway, apart from Bumper to bumper traffic. But Avenger is more sensible choosen for highways/touring then city.

I am not at all bajaj or Hero fan..I am a hard core Yammie Fan!! So waiting for Yamaha 250cc, whether it takes 1-2 yrs. Else one day CBR becomes like R15 in all aspects with it's current power and topend then only i will vouch for CBR.

But CBR is not that bad on road while braking that a person thinks about it's stability or capability.

CBR is a sports Tourer not a Sports bike.. So when you pay a amount of 1.5+ then people has to understand that what the bike is and what it is made for?? you can't tour mega Kms with sports bike continously where as you can do it in Sports tourer!! So purpose are well served.

There are many segments in biking, Off roading, Sports, Sport Touring, touring ,..etc..so if people buy CBR then they are very sensible in their choice for that. So if anyone expects CBR to perform like Track bike then SORRY it won't becuase it's design is not for that at all.


Yes i too belive if CBR would have been like R15 handling then it would have been more better but it's not so what, you have to compromise some where, else Ninja Green is standing at other end of the Road which has all.
For this Pocket speaks!!

Its more sensible for highways than city rite? And you suggested this bike cause your intention was to save his few bucks as you said. Well my intention was that if you could extend the budget a little more, then you get a bike which can easily be used in cities also... If your buying a bike, then why not buy one which satisfies city and touring?? So to the buyer: Somen's point of view and mine are different and yet, both are correct in their own angles. So think wise and buy.. If you want touring and wanna save bucks then why the hell invest in a high end bike when a lower one satisfies your needs? (decision is purely purely personal)... And if you want ocassional touring and normal city rides, then my argument is pay more and satisfy both your needs... Simple.. I hope am correct in what i analysed.. Anyways people are fighting over here so its your duty to inform us if our advices are fruitfull or if we are hitting a dead-end by simply arguing with each other...

+1 to every word of it. But yet it's a suggestion, Final verdict would be TS's choice and choice!!

BTW where is the Thread starter ??

TS: choose what ever you like and you love, if you buy just like that then you won't have a good relationship with any bike!!

Its not about brand wars..its about better suited machine,be it of any make..& regarding sales of any company,i just replied to my above post & you can see itself that i already mentioned that Hero's major sales isn't in performance bikes..HMC is selling more bikes not because of performance but on the front of reliability,smoothness,resale value,spare parts easily available,more service outlets even at rural ends & all..

To the Thread starter,

If you have not finalized on the bikes yet then my piece of Advice would be P220 / ZMR in that order, both are very good tourers but i rank the p220 slightly higher because of the taller 5th gear, Beautiful projectors which lights up the highway in a way no other bikes from the list, cheaper spares and the grunt it posesses.
My ownership details till now includes
2007 - 2011 - Pulsar 180 Ug3 (51000 kms) - without a hitch on stock bore and 90% stock parts (sold to friend n still running strong with 60k kms, Bajaj quality has truly improved post 2007)
2011-2012 - Karizma R
2012 - (present ride) - 220F
From my experience out of the above 3 the 220f scores high on touring with excellent torque higher up the revs which translates into relaxed high speed touring.
With zma the cruising band is around 100kmph, with 220f the cruising band is around 115kmph with similar stress levels on engine felt, the 220 continues to accelerate rapidly till around 130kmph but zma is not that enthusiastic post 110kmph.
The Karizma no doubtedly was a bit more refined of the 3 bikes i owned but lacks the punchy feeling of the p220f, its relaxed and i got bored very soon
Efficiency of the 220f is also around 2kmpl better on highways at same speeds.
I have no experience with the ZMR but as engines are same with added extra weight i reckon the feeling must be same between the two.

Ushuuu. What man. I said its MY PERSONAL OPINION. It doesn't have to be true or right even for that matter. 2 valve-4 valve is no kindergarten question! I'm not comparing any performance! The CBR will flatten my RTR anyday. But what does it provide for that cost? It just is another oh-so-cheap bike meant to sell. Doesn't live up to the CBR family standards. MY OPINION again. 40km on the ODO might seem less to all you pros. I decided what the bike was worth in that much. MY OPINION. Sorry if I seemed rude.

Bro you've got to be kidding rite!! LOL!!! do you know the cost it would take to fit a rear disc to a bike which has drum breaks? Yo need to change the entire rim bro. To make it compatible with the disc. My friend did it to his p-180.. Cost was 8-9k.. Round it up to 10.. After market GRS shocks? I would seriously doubt its performance.. all these along with labour charges would come around to 15k approx? When i bought the zmr, there was an exact difference of 21k between zma and zmr.. In that 20k, you get a full fairing, GRS shocks, rear disc, split handle bar, split grab rails, bank angle sensor, PGM-FI system, many sensors in the engine block, led tail lights and to top it all a sexy digital console!!! for that 20k difference.. There's a reason i reccomended zmr over zma bro.. It has a cool mileage too. Am just clarifying your misunderstandings about zmr!!

Understood!

Wow, wow, what a thread this has become! From a simple query to a 8-page brand fight? Enough, guys!!

I agree that all of us love our bikes and are absolutely enthusiastic about them. All of us have some brand loyalty. I admit, I am a Yamaha guy myself. But that shouldn't mean a brand-bashing at every available opportunity. I, for sure, am neutral to all brands. I don't favour a brand, I favour technology.

There was a heated discussion a while back regarding Liquid cooled engine vs Aircooled engines.
It stands to simple logic that a high-revving engine heats up a lot more than a relaxed engine. Hence a liquid cooled engine makes more sense in a rev-happy bike like the CBR250 or R15 rather than an Enfield, which doesn't rev hard enough.

Again, coming to the debate of Fi vs Carb: Agreed that carbs are easy to repair and cheaper, but how many of us here have suffered from issues like water getting into carbs, or choked carb jets and the like? On the contrary, how many bikes with FI engines have actually been stranded mid-way?

And finally the matter of fairing: IMO, it's an entirely subjective matter, and while I do like faired bikes, the only issues that I can see is dents and scratches which will spoil the looks in the long run. But speaking of maneuverability, I never had an issue handling my friend's ZMR in the crowded streets of Bangalore (Except when parking/taking a u-turn)


So yes, after looking at all options and responses here, I have shortlisted the ZMR as my 1st choice primarily because:
It's got a nice, relaxed engine - which is actually preferable. (Again, that's my personal preference)
It can seat two people very comfortably.
It is stable in the long run (though it needs better tyres).

I have also considered the negatives, such as :
It does lack a LC engine and uses oil-cooling which is not really a major improvement over aircooled.
Very outdated looks (it's a 3-year old design)

Hopefully Hero Motors will offer a design refresh for the ZMR in 2013 (and I don't mean a sticker-job) and (hopefully) a liquid-cooled, 250cc engine!

Peace to all other brand-fans.
My 2nd choice, after reading all reviews here, would be the P220. Yes, the P220 is a worthy bike and it's universally accepted that the P220 lights are the best that any Indian bike has seen till date. Since none of my friends own a P220, I am yet to take a drive to check the seating posture and engine stress levels.

The 3rd choice would be the CBR250, owing to the high cost and lack of service (I wouldn't let any small-town mechanic touch a nearly-2-lac bike)

All said and done, the Avenger is a sofa on 2 wheels. It's a poser-boy. It's the Desi Harley superlow. But we are in India, where sudden maneuverability matters a lot - thanks to swerving Volvos, stray cattle and what not. The Avenger may be a luxurious hot-rod, but I'd never feel comfortable with the weight of an added pillion and the low stance/distant steering.

Thanks to all. Peace.

So when will we see you in our ownership threads?

Correction.. 7-page brand fight.

Amazingly said!

In the battle of FI vs Carb, I would say if you are planning to tour up into himalayas and you live in a big city and only go to the service centre (e.g. Pune, bangalore etc) get a FI machine. Else get a carb.

Reason for FI: FI bikes have no issues (just keep the battery charged). Once Fi starts trouble, its better to get the whole thing replaced or get a new bike rather than trying to fix the issue. Road side mechs are no match for the Fi, they will ruin it rather than fixing it. Refrain from electrical mods unless you have a pro to do the job.

Reason for Carb : Any indian roadside mech can do the job. Very simplistic concept and design. Issues do come but they are fixed rather more easily.


Coming to the point of a touring machine : I would say, yeh got money and don't care for mileage get the CBR. Yeh got money and you are a performance seeker on budget and care a little for mileage, get the P220F. (Would had said the 200NS but its not a touring species but is a street spec. People can tour on it and its got an amazing FE) ZMR is good, RTR twins are good (you can opt for ABS version which is additional safety feature very useful in touring I would say). Avenger,is rightly said, is a sofa on wheels but for the pillion its little uncomfy. All of the above mentioned are able to cruise at 100+ speeds day long without any stress to the engine.

Peace!

BTW where you Mr Thread Starter !! And have you decided or still only in shortlist period!!

BTW ZMR, P220 and CBR250 are good choice, quickly get booking and post the pics!!

LOL, Yes! 7 Pages!
CBR's out. 50K is too much cash (an Activa for the wifey, maybe!)
But yes, the P220 is really on my mind - wish I could ride one on a long, open stretch and see for myself. Most of the 220s which I have observed on B'lore roads have a very rash engine note & lots of rattling (not sure whether its poor maintenance or build quality).


Just need to take a final call - its the 220F vs ZMR now. And both of them are evenly matched with a similar footing:
225cc vs 220cc
Oil Cooled vs Oil Cooled
Fuel Injected vs Fuel Injected
18BHP vs 20BHP

Looking around for a 220. Once I do a long run, I will be in a position to take the final call.

ZMR Vs P220F
223 Vs 220
FI Vs Carb
17.6bhp Vs 20.8bhp approx
40-45kmpl Vs 35-40kmpl

Even i've noticed the same issues in p-220.. Engine refinement of a zmr is way more than a pulsar.. P-220 would be optimal and probably the best in city.. Touring also includes high altitude stuffs which is easily handled by the fi.. Also superior mileage of 45+ on highways from zmr.. Its also a good bike for cities and even better for touring... I'd personally recommend 220 for city as it rocks in that part... Like you said, TD a p-220 and a zmr both which have done approximately equal kms.. You'll know which to buy.. Also look at the poll.. ZMR has more votes than any.. Am surprised as i expected CBR to be superior!!Cheers!!