Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[Shreeni0403]

I still see many people asking the same questions in different thread where data is scattered. Probably if many people request the mods to make this thread sticky it might be helpful to all.

[sajjt]

Originally Posted by princesirohi

hey all listen to my theory--
1) my pulsar have a 9 Ah battery. HID is 12V 35W, i.e. approx. 3 Amps current. so battery should last 3 hours. now in these three hours it is getting charged also, since bike is running. i think the charging current is 1.5 Amps approx. so in three hours it will have 4.5 Ah strength, that means another 1.5 hours, so total 4.5 hours it should last. this is the ideal case. in practical terms it should last approx. 4 hours. if you are using starter then may be 3 hours back up it should give. wht do u think ?

2) since HID is connected to battery, the magneto coil supplying current to headlight earlier, is now lying idle, so we can use that coil, instead of rewinding the magneto. now HID is 12V 35W DC and earlier headlight was also 12V 35W AC , that means we need exactly the same amount of power as that of earlier bulb, which this coil easily produces. we need to connect this coil to one more RR unit (may be APE or may be same as that already in my bike) and connect the DC output of this RR unit to battery for additional charging.

3) since HID draws 3 Amps current, we need an RR unit which delivers 3 Amps. I have checked in the manual, the current RR of my bike gives approx. 1.5 amps. so now if i use one more RR as that same of my bike. total charging current will be 3 Amps approx. which should sustain the battery quite well.

4) can some one tell me what is the output of APE RR unit.

5) what if we dont use light for some days, and battery gets overcharged. is there a cut-off system provided in APE RR.

6) AFAIK any battery should be charged at a rate not exceeding 10% of its Ah value for safe charging and long life. too fast charging damages teh battery and reduces its life. now my battery is 9 Ah so 10% of 9 is 0.9 A. so the battery should be charged at 0.9 A only. bajaj guys are charging at 1.5 Amps is already pretty high. if i connect one more RR total charging current will be approx. 3.0 to 4.5 Amps which is too too high and i m damn sure no battery can sustain it, and will be ruined in few month.

only solution is that we add a switch to the wiring and use this additional charging only when light is ON, so that battery will actually not take the charging current instead it will be directly diverted to light through battery terminals. this way actually the current for light will come directly from magneto through charging current and at low speeds stability will be provided by battery.

what do you guys have to say?

Good Home work dude

Theoritical approach wont help u in tackling this IMO, as there are lot of other factors affecting the avg performance like the riding style, rpm, load parameters etc.

U've wrongly calculated the power requirement, what about the other position lights and the tail, console lights will contribute another 35-40W? Will this calculation justify? (35W HID+2x10W position lamps+ 4X 1.4 W console lights+ 5W tail light+HB will contribute 65W). U forgot few things in calculating the power requirements side, such as a normal 35W HID will consume 6-9A for 15-30 secs (depending upon the brand, almost all chinese brands are tend to be on extreme sides) at startup and later on stabilization will return to the normal power consumption of 3-3.5A. If u use a HID+Halo combi, things will be more worse, as every time u change the H/L beam its repeating the above said process of drinking more juice from the batt to stabilize bcz every time u switch the beam, the power supply also getting swapped from one beam to another beam wire. So this could severly affect the performance and life too. In a bixen too this will be the case, but there u can bypass this by a simple wiring mod.

Basically HID is not meant for Bikes unless u do the mods is a fact, so considering that, there might be some pros and cons to this mod too. For a healthy charging rate 10% is the thumb rule, but r u doing a proper mod with an HID on a bike? The power load also should be considered in that case, like loading with an HID means u have to depend on a 14/20 AH batt
too. Here U r expecting too much from a a mean 9AH batt to feed an HID which is not meant for it, so there can be a life span fall I think, but taking advantage of this HID and getting the max out of a batt cant be achieved at the same time. If u r so sure about the batt will get ruin due to this excessive charging, take the P220, is also having a 9AH batt and feeding a 55W halo which is more than an HID consumption. Without boosting the charging rate how come it can run for hrs without drain on a Halo? Nobody is replacing the batt due to this excessive charging, So there should be some balance too. AFAIK, there's not cut off circuit for over charging in any of the RRs so far. So considering all these, u've taken a risk of doing an electrical mod, so be ready to face it too. There are lot of people have
achived this and no one have reported for battery fault due to over charging.Once the batt reaches its level of 14.5, it wont take any more to it and hence no overcharging. I think Abhi can explain this much easier.

If u still not sure about this, do as u suggested by way of a switch, u can shut down the RR while no lights, pretty safe gamble.

This is what exactly, the APE RR does, we just re route the light coils to the APE RR to fill the batt. Its output is 1:1 for max of 20A as the charging rate is like that on it. So if u can feed more AC to it the more u will get filled in ur capacitor Got it.

Keeping 2 RRs is not a good idea, there can be clashes, the best u can perserve teh stock RR for an emergency in case of this RR fails. And one more thing, ur stock RR is a AC+DC type, it can feed the batt max of 3.5A with a rewounded batt coil which I've checked. And u cant bypass the light coil to the batt with a stock RR as it wont support plus, u need to get isolate the grouding from the coil core to get the full output of the coil for DC.

[abhijeet080808]

Originally Posted by Shreeni0403

I still see many people asking the same questions in different thread where data is scattered. Probably if many people request the mods to make this thread sticky it might be helpful to all.

Wow! Someone finally put up the thread.

@Mods, a request - please make this thread sticky!

[princesirohi]

@sajjt: thanks dude for discussing with such an interest. i have just read your post. will be back after lunch time.

in the mean time i have found out that now all the pulsars come with all DC wiring. if only bajaj guys wud have done this earlier.

[Abhijeet Bhattacharjee]

Thanx guys for the new thread.
Will see if the bajaj service guys are willing to work on the electricals... Otherwise will go for whateva u guys said.
<Posted via Mobile>

[princesirohi]

Originally Posted by sajjt

Good Home work dude

Theoritical approach wont help u in tackling this IMO, as there are lot of other factors affecting the avg performance like the riding style, rpm, load parameters etc.

U've wrongly calculated the power requirement, what about the other position lights and the tail, console lights will contribute another 35-40W? Will this calculation justify? (35W HID+2x10W position lamps+ 4X 1.4 W console lights+ 5W tail light+HB will contribute 65W). U forgot few things in calculating the power requirements side, such as a normal 35W HID will consume 6-9A for 15-30 secs (depending upon the brand, almost all chinese brands are tend to be on extreme sides) at startup and later on stabilization will return to the normal power consumption of 3-3.5A. If u use a HID+Halo combi, things will be more worse, as every time u change the H/L beam its repeating the above said process of drinking more juice from the batt to stabilize bcz every time u switch the beam, the power supply also getting swapped from one beam to another beam wire. So this could severly affect the performance and life too. In a bixen too this will be the case, but there u can bypass this by a simple wiring mod.

Basically HID is not meant for Bikes unless u do the mods is a fact, so considering that, there might be some pros and cons to this mod too. For a healthy charging rate 10% is the thumb rule, but r u doing a proper mod with an HID on a bike? The power load also should be considered in that case, like loading with an HID means u have to depend on a 14/20 AH batt
too. Here U r expecting too much from a a mean 9AH batt to feed an HID which is not meant for it, so there can be a life span fall I think, but taking advantage of this HID and getting the max out of a batt cant be achieved at the same time. If u r so sure about the batt will get ruin due to this excessive charging, take the P220, is also having a 9AH batt and feeding a 55W halo which is more than an HID consumption. Without boosting the charging rate how come it can run for hrs without drain on a Halo? Nobody is replacing the batt due to this excessive charging, So there should be some balance too. AFAIK, there's not cut off circuit for over charging in any of the RRs so far. So considering all these, u've taken a risk of doing an electrical mod, so be ready to face it too. There are lot of people have
achived this and no one have reported for battery fault due to over charging.Once the batt reaches its level of 14.5, it wont take any more to it and hence no overcharging. I think Abhi can explain this much easier.

If u still not sure about this, do as u suggested by way of a switch, u can shut down the RR while no lights, pretty safe gamble.

This is what exactly, the APE RR does, we just re route the light coils to the APE RR to fill the batt. Its output is 1:1 for max of 20A as the charging rate is like that on it. So if u can feed more AC to it the more u will get filled in ur capacitor Got it.

Keeping 2 RRs is not a good idea, there can be clashes, the best u can perserve teh stock RR for an emergency in case of this RR fails. And one more thing, ur stock RR is a AC+DC type, it can feed the batt max of 3.5A with a rewounded batt coil which I've checked. And u cant bypass the light coil to the batt with a stock RR as it wont support plus, u need to get isolate the grouding from the coil core to get the full output of the coil for DC.

see my bike is still AC+DC, its not full DC, so pilot lamps work on AC i guess as well as digital console lights, so the calculation is all right.

i have a single xenon magnetically moving Hi/Lo type fitting, so every time i shift upper/dipper, the bulb does not have to light up from zero. its just that the bulb moves forward/backwards to change the focus. so it does not take 6-9 Amps every time i use upper/dipper switch.

i think i will use the APE RR.

second thing is that my bike is still AC+DC so i will need the existing RR unit to run other things like pilot lamps, digital console light, etc etc..

what i will do is connect the light output coil through switch to APE RR unit and then APE RR unit to battery through a 10 A fuse.

but the sockets will not match....even i have to cut open certain wires and connect it by insulating tape. is it OK.

other thing is that what if there is a voltage difference....suppose at certain RPM one RR unit gives 13.0 V and other gives 13.5 or 12.5 V then what will happen?

[sajjt]

Originally Posted by princesirohi

see my bike is still AC+DC, its not full DC, so pilot lamps work on AC i guess as well as digital console lights, so the calculation is all right.

i have a single xenon magnetically moving Hi/Lo type fitting, so every time i shift upper/dipper, the bulb does not have to light up from zero. its just that the bulb moves forward/backwards to change the focus. so it does not take 6-9 Amps every time i use upper/dipper switch.

i think i will use the APE RR.

second thing is that my bike is still AC+DC so i will need the existing RR unit to run other things like pilot lamps, digital console light, etc etc..

what i will do is connect the light output coil through switch to APE RR unit and then APE RR unit to battery through a 10 A fuse.

but the sockets will not match....even i have to cut open certain wires and connect it by insulating tape. is it OK.

other thing is that what if there is a voltage difference....suppose at certain RPM one RR unit gives 13.0 V and other gives 13.5 or 12.5 V then what will happen?

Dude, we havent found any smart AC+DC RR so far to boost the charging rates to a min of 6A. And its so obvious to look for such type too. I dont know the real impact of the double RR at a time, all I know is there can be issues like what you have mentioned in the last line, so its safe to use one RR at a time. My previous statement was based on full DC conversion, because of these issues. Previously I was also thinking about to keep the stock RR, but once I had this doubt and discussed with Abhi, I droped the idea. Now all I can say is avoid making it more complex. If u cant tackle 2 RR, then u'll've only one option left, make it full DC. So the thread becomes relevant for u too

One more update, ur stock batt coil will deliver a max of 1.5A after rewinding it can go upto 3.5A which I got. ( I rewounded both coils) I tried with this 3.5A charging rate and I was getting a backup time of 40 mins from an avg batt which got fried every night and eventually got screwed up in 2 months.

Dude, if u r using a telescopic HID too, the power for the beams are from the stock wire (to drive the relay) and each time u swtich to the other beam, power is getting swapped, got it? Try to switch on the HID, before getting warm, try to switch to the other beam, u can see there's a switching. Once the bulb is stabilized its not easy to notice it. If its not there u r lucky, ur HID control box is smart, else, u need to by pass.

Sockets wont match and u need to cut the wires to isolate them from the harness to make sure that its a seperate circuit. Dont see this as a silly mod, it can lead to very disastrous after effects once some thing went wrong. And if possible, dont use the insulation tape rather go for shrinking sleeves to seal them and it will ensure that the joints are intact.

If u can get a better single phase RR, u can use that too, only thing is it should be able to transfer what ever gets from the coil.

[princesirohi]

i am very confused ...????

btw what is a shrinking sleeve?

hey u said ur battery gave up in 2 months due to high charging rate. but earlier i was saying this and u contradicted? clarify yaar......bahut confusion hai.

i m editing this post 2nd time coz i have found out that certain type of battery chargers can be paralleled, but they are special ones. i m trying to figure out a way to charge teh battery using two chargers in parallel.

[Abhijeet Bhattacharjee]

Originally Posted by princesirohi

bahut confusion hai.

i m editing this post 2nd time coz i have found out that certain type of battery chargers can be paralleled, but they are special ones. i m trying to figure out a way to charge teh battery using two chargers in parallel.

You wont have any advantage if u use 2 RR's in parallel, infact the net E.M.F for charging wont increase at all.

[drvmtm]

finally,finally,all things are in one place!!a much awated thing!!