Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[gajah_gendut]

@sajjt
actually, 5yrs ago i modded my bike to dc light using honda tiger rr. because of best oem rr easy to buy in my country.
august last year i found rr schema on the net, then i wanted to try buld my own rr as trial effort and as a backup for my rr. i couldn't find 25a scr like on the sch, the i used 4 12a scr in parallel like on the pic i've posted. my homemade rr works fine, but this very hot when used more than 2hrs
thats why i let my rr left open without case. last desmber i used tiger rr back

[abhijeet080808]

^^ I use 2 BT151 SCR (rated at 12A max) in parallel. They perform very well. They are mounted on 2 small heatsinks though. And I run 100/90W h/l using this. You may want to check if gate voltage is too weak. IMO, that is the most likely cause.

[sabret00the]

very nice thread. Thanks.

[princesirohi]

Well...here's my update on my modification status....

first i removed stator plate (Pulsar 150 UG-3), and to my surprise it was not like what it was discussed here, and shown by drvmtm. ofcourse there were 4 lighting coils and 3 charging coils, but they were arranged in alternate fashion as shown in one of the figures.....if you see the diagram, u can instantly make out that, it means the rotor is 4 pole. now this means the current of lighting coils and that of charging coil will be phase shifted by 45 degrees. this is also shown in attached images. this means when we add these two current, it will not be algebric sum but it will be a phasor addition.

now i took the lighting coil end which was grounded in stock condition and removed the ground, connected a wire and took it out of magneto compartment. this is shown in one of the images attached.

now i made two bridge rectifier circuits as mentioned in one of the threads using 4 numbers of 6A4 diodes and one 50V, 4700uF capacitor.

my bridge rectifier image is also attached.

then i fed the AC current of charging coil to one circuit and AC current of lighting coil to other circuit and measured the outputs individually and then i connected the outputs of both the circuits together. again i measured the output.

the readings are as follows--

RPM-------CHARGING CKT. OUTPUT---------LIGHTING CIRCUIT OUTPUT
1200----------0.5 Amps------------------------0.45 Amps
4000----------4.33 Amps-----------------------4.00 Amps
6000----------5.11 Amps-----------------------4.60 Amps
7000----------can't measure-------------------4.95 Amps

now the combined output --

RPM--------------COMBINED OUTPUT
1200------------------0.9 Amps
2000------------------3.15 Amps
4000------------------7.00 Amps

i did not measured the output after that as my wife called me for dinner.

now as you can see i am getting 7.0 Amps at 4000 RPM, that means 84 watts of pure power.

so in a way the experiment was pretty successfull.

there is one more thing, as i switch on the HID, the current output suddenly increases as HID draws power.

now there are certain things that need to be worked on.

1) 6A4 diodes have a current rating of only 6 Amps, so they heat up, so i m planning to use diodes with atleast 10-15 Amps rating.

2) capacitor discharge resistor has to be added.

3) the output DC voltage is too high (in open circuit condition) and increases with RPM, it varies from 13.0 volts to 70.0 Volts as AC voltage of coil varies, so it tries to charge the battery till its own level. this will harm the battery, so we need something to clamp the voltage at 15.0 volts so that battery charging stops at 15.0 volts, may be a zener diode with 15 volt rating.

4) we need to limit the current also as i dont want 7.0 Amps at 4000 RPM with HID switched off. i only want 3.0 Amps. so i will need a current limiting resistor. (other option is to design a DC chopper circuit, which may be difficult and costly too)

so guys now u suggest.

but atleast i m happy, my experiment is successful and the full capacity of stock stator coils if combined is more that 85 watts.

guys tell me what u feel, also give suggestions regarding point number 1 to 4.


@ sajjt: in one of your posts you were saying to fill up the curcuit with epoxy, to make it waterproof. what is epoxy and where can we get it, any brans names u know.?

[sajjt]

Well...here's my update on my modification status....

first i removed stator plate (Pulsar 150 UG-3), and to my surprise it was not like what it was discussed here, and shown by drvmtm. ofcourse there were 4 lighting coils and 3 charging coils, but they were arranged in alternate fashion as shown in one of the figures.....if you see the diagram, u can instantly make out that, it means the rotor is 4 pole. now this means the current of lighting coils and that of charging coil will be phase shifted by 45 degrees. this is also shown in attached images. this means when we add these two current, it will not be algebric sum but it will be a phasor addition.

now i took the lighting coil end which was grounded in stock condition and removed the ground, connected a wire and took it out of magneto compartment. this is shown in one of the images attached.

now i made two bridge rectifier circuits as mentioned in one of the threads using 4 numbers of 6A4 diodes and one 50V, 4700uF capacitor.

my bridge rectifier image is also attached.

then i fed the AC current of charging coil to one circuit and AC current of lighting coil to other circuit and measured the outputs individually and then i connected the outputs of both the circuits together. again i measured the output.

the readings are as follows--

RPM-------CHARGING CKT. OUTPUT---------LIGHTING CIRCUIT OUTPUT
1200----------0.5 Amps------------------------0.45 Amps
4000----------4.33 Amps-----------------------4.00 Amps
6000----------5.11 Amps-----------------------4.60 Amps
7000----------can't measure-------------------4.95 Amps

now the combined output --

RPM--------------COMBINED OUTPUT
1200------------------0.9 Amps
2000------------------3.15 Amps
4000------------------7.00 Amps

i did not measured the output after that as my wife called me for dinner.

now as you can see i am getting 7.0 Amps at 4000 RPM, that means 84 watts of pure power.

so in a way the experiment was pretty successfull.

there is one more thing, as i switch on the HID, the current output suddenly increases as HID draws power.

now there are certain things that need to be worked on.

1) 6A4 diodes have a current rating of only 6 Amps, so they heat up, so i m planning to use diodes with atleast 10-15 Amps rating.

2) capacitor discharge resistor has to be added.

3) the output DC voltage is too high (in open circuit condition) and increases with RPM, it varies from 13.0 volts to 70.0 Volts as AC voltage of coil varies, so it tries to charge the battery till its own level. this will harm the battery, so we need something to clamp the voltage at 15.0 volts so that battery charging stops at 15.0 volts, may be a zener diode with 15 volt rating.

4) we need to limit the current also as i dont want 7.0 Amps at 4000 RPM with HID switched off. i only want 3.0 Amps. so i will need a current limiting resistor. (other option is to design a DC chopper circuit, which may be difficult and costly too)

so guys now u suggest.

but atleast i m happy, my experiment is successful and the full capacity of stock stator coils if combined is more that 85 watts.

guys tell me what u feel, also give suggestions regarding point number 1 to 4.


@ sajjt: in one of your posts you were saying to fill up the curcuit with epoxy, to make it waterproof. what is epoxy and where can we get it, any brans names u know.?

Man, u are a dare devil to pump in 70v to ur batt without any regulator What u made is only a full wave rectifier, so first u need to have a regulator. I think u r so lucky to have ur electricals are in good condition even that higher voltage Just check with Shreeni what happened once his RR failed.

And I dont think a zener diode will do the job for continous run, else, all these OEM RR's would've been compacted to a small match box size or even smaller than that. (Admitting that there are few, but not atleast for a 9AH batt) Neither current limiting resistors and hence the shunt regulators using worldwide for this. For bridge rectifier, u can still use a 35A single module rectifier used in gajah_gendut, which is very commonly available costing around 30/-.

If u r getting a 8A with an RR, then no need to go for any coil rewinding, but dude, u've checked without an RR so it may change once u connect an RR due to shunting. What do u say Abhi?

Epoxy glues are available here, like Araldite, Fevicol dont remember its brand name, may be Mseal too. It can conduct the heat too. But why do u need this man just for a BR?

[princesirohi]

@ sajjt: but in all the posts, everbody seems to be doing it this way only, i mean all the circuit diagrams shown here, everybody uses a bridge rectifier only.

@shreeni: i never knew ur bridge rectifier failed, so wht happened when it failed?

@abhijeet: suggest sumthing yaar.

see my main problem is that i cant use APE RR unit because instead of a single AC source i have two sources. that means i have to use 2 APE RR's ?

[Shreeni0403]

@ sajjt: but in all the posts, everbody seems to be doing it this way only, i mean all the circuit diagrams shown here, everybody uses a bridge rectifier only.

@shreeni: i never knew ur bridge rectifier failed, so wht happened when it failed?

@abhijeet: suggest sumthing yaar.

see my main problem is that i cant use APE RR unit because instead of a single AC source i have two sources. that means i have to use 2 APE RR's ?

Frankly speaking you are making things complex which actually is simpler .

My APE RR itself failed n within few hours of regulation fail my Osram NB, Fuel gauge, couple of others blew off like a flash. And my APE RR was giving just 20v. I can't even imagine 70v !!

[gajah_gendut]

i agreed with sajjt. i dont think zener will work. even though you can use zener, you will need very2 powerful zener (100watts may be?).

i'm not electrical expert. i'm just a man who interested to do some DIY for fun.

you can use 2 full wave RR. or i got an idea. how about use this schema in my attachment. using 2 bridge diode in parallel. then fed them as input for full wave RR?
this RR can be used to regulate battery charging voltage.

[sajjt]

@ sajjt: but in all the posts, everbody seems to be doing it this way only, i mean all the circuit diagrams shown here, everybody uses a bridge rectifier only.

@shreeni: i never knew ur bridge rectifier failed, so wht happened when it failed?

@abhijeet: suggest sumthing yaar.

see my main problem is that i cant use APE RR unit because instead of a single AC source i have two sources. that means i have to use 2 APE RR's ?

Dude, U R Mistaken, all the diagrams shown was to tap from the stock RR light wire out not from the coil out when u want to connect BR to boost the batt charging without an RR. Here u've mixed up the things and took it in a wrong way.

RR unit means Regulator cum Rectifier which consists of a shunt regulator mostly on the first part and then a rectifier unit. U've bypassed the regulator function, and fed the batt directly, may be the batt acted as a buffer and saved everything, and its just a trial run, no rides may be that saved ur electricals, else, ur all glowing bulbs, guages or even the batt too. Check with Shree, his batt also busted due to the RR failure.

Having this much of awareness, should not've done this wrong step In this thread, we are discussing to converting to full DC, where Rahul was referring to his batt boosting mod with the stock RR, which was well explained in that thread. We never had even 0.1% of idea of u r going to do such a brave move But anyway u r luckier than Shree, and after all its a Pulsar, so it should stay cool. Shree r u listening man? Poor boy is still under that nightmare hangover

I agree with Shreeni, why do u want to make it complex if its so simple and straight? Make it a full DC and enjoy the HID or rewind it and plonk a 55W ONB Halo.

[sajjt]

i agreed with sajjt. i dont think zener will work. even though you can use zener, you will need very2 powerful zener (100watts may be?).

i'm not electrical expert. i'm just a man who interested to do some DIY for fun.

you can use 2 full wave RR. or i got an idea. how about use this schema in my attachment. using 2 bridge diode in parallel. then fed them as input for full wave RR?
this RR can be used to regulate battery charging voltage.

Dude, if we have a good full wave RR unit whats use of additional BR? RR itself have the BR to do the job. So no need of converting it to DC before feeding it to a FWRR. And every RR've its own output capacity, for that we are discussing here. Every bikes/2wheels will've the RR but it having diff cap depends on the batt usage. So within the RR module, rectifier makes the bottleneck which is restricting the current outflow. Here we want to boost the charging rate so opted for a higher cap RR which is available very easily. Its as simple as any other mod.

[princesirohi]

i can anyway connect everything using a 10 Amps fuse, which will save everything, in case of RR failure.


anyway...


so wht u guys have to say.?

wht shuld i do?

Note: my bike is already on full DC

[Shreeni0403]

Dude, U R Mistaken, all the diagrams shown was to tap from the stock RR light wire out not from the coil out when u want to connect BR to boost the batt charging without an RR. Here u've mixed up the things and took it in a wrong way.

RR unit means Regulator cum Rectifier which consists of a shunt regulator mostly on the first part and then a rectifier unit. U've bypassed the regulator function, and fed the batt directly, may be the batt acted as a buffer and saved everything, and its just a trial run, no rides may be that saved ur electricals, else, ur all glowing bulbs, guages or even the batt too. Check with Shree, his batt also busted due to the RR failure.

Having this much of awareness, should not've done this wrong step In this thread, we are discussing to converting to full DC, where Rahul was referring to his batt boosting mod with the stock RR, which was well explained in that thread. We never had even 0.1% of idea of u r going to do such a brave move But anyway u r luckier than Shree, and after all its a Pulsar, so it should stay cool. Shree r u listening man? Poor boy is still under that nightmare hangover

I agree with Shreeni, why do u want to make it complex if its so simple and straight? Make it a full DC and enjoy the HID or rewind it and plonk a 55W ONB Halo.

No ways dude !! I am enjoying the HID's to its best
Very soon will be plonking a 90/100 along with HID. Saving for it

Regarding battery getting fried, I was least bothered bcz I got a new one under warranty

i can anyway connect everything using a 10 Amps fuse, which will save everything, in case of RR failure.


anyway...


so wht u guys have to say.?

wht shuld i do?

Note: my bike is already on full DC

Yup got that your bike is full DC, just unground the coil, make it full wave and connect it to Full wave RR like the APE's. If still you are not getting sufficient charge then rewind the coil and connect it to APE's, now for sure you will get desired charge rate.

Note - Buy OEM APE RR, not Delhi made.!!

[sajjt]

i can anyway connect everything using a 10 Amps fuse, which will save everything, in case of RR failure.
anyway...
so wht u guys have to say.?
wht shuld i do?
Note: my bike is already on full DC

Dude, a fuse protection is against a shortcircuit or over current draw, but nothing to do with over voltage, it can sustain more than 1000V. So I would rather suggest u to go for a good RR to serve this like Shreeni said.

No ways dude !! I am enjoying the HID's to its best
Very soon will be plonking a 90/100 along with HID. Saving for it

Regarding battery getting fried, I was least bothered bcz I got a new one under warranty

Yup got that your bike is full DC, just unground the coil, make it full wave and connect it to Full wave RR like the APE's. If still you are not getting sufficient charge then rewind the coil and connect it to APE's, now for sure you will get desired charge rate.

Note - Buy OEM APE RR, not Delhi made.!!

THis is what I meant by nightmare

[road_ripper]

Hey Guys, whats the conclusion here??? I had some idea about converting my 180 ug3 to DC but after going through all the pages i'm damn confused now as to which method to opt!!
I want to plonk in an HID and most of the time i ride inside city so what do you guys suggest? As rahuldevnath suggested just a one wire cut to headlight coil mod and an RR to it and then feeding it to battery will work good for an HID running inside city???
My mechanic was ready to make the headlight work on DC but he warned me of batt draining issues. Now i'm all confused..

[princesirohi]

Dude, a fuse protection is against a shortcircuit or over current draw,( i know a fuse is for overcurrent protection, but if voltage increases obviously current will increase) but nothing to do with over voltage, it can sustain more than 1000V. So I would rather suggest u to go for a good RR to serve this like Shreeni said.


THis is what I meant by nightmare

anyway, i will think ......with a cool mind......weigh the pros and cons and then i will decide....the information available here is all scattered and confusing.