Convert AC/DC bike to ALL DC.

[princesirohi]

Good Home work dude

Theoritical approach wont help u in tackling this IMO, as there are lot of other factors affecting the avg performance like the riding style, rpm, load parameters etc.

U've wrongly calculated the power requirement, what about the other position lights and the tail, console lights will contribute another 35-40W? Will this calculation justify? (35W HID+2x10W position lamps+ 4X 1.4 W console lights+ 5W tail light+HB will contribute 65W). U forgot few things in calculating the power requirements side, such as a normal 35W HID will consume 6-9A for 15-30 secs (depending upon the brand, almost all chinese brands are tend to be on extreme sides) at startup and later on stabilization will return to the normal power consumption of 3-3.5A. If u use a HID+Halo combi, things will be more worse, as every time u change the H/L beam its repeating the above said process of drinking more juice from the batt to stabilize bcz every time u switch the beam, the power supply also getting swapped from one beam to another beam wire. So this could severly affect the performance and life too. In a bixen too this will be the case, but there u can bypass this by a simple wiring mod.

Basically HID is not meant for Bikes unless u do the mods is a fact, so considering that, there might be some pros and cons to this mod too. For a healthy charging rate 10% is the thumb rule, but r u doing a proper mod with an HID on a bike? The power load also should be considered in that case, like loading with an HID means u have to depend on a 14/20 AH batt
too. Here U r expecting too much from a a mean 9AH batt to feed an HID which is not meant for it, so there can be a life span fall I think, but taking advantage of this HID and getting the max out of a batt cant be achieved at the same time. If u r so sure about the batt will get ruin due to this excessive charging, take the P220, is also having a 9AH batt and feeding a 55W halo which is more than an HID consumption. Without boosting the charging rate how come it can run for hrs without drain on a Halo? Nobody is replacing the batt due to this excessive charging, So there should be some balance too. AFAIK, there's not cut off circuit for over charging in any of the RRs so far. So considering all these, u've taken a risk of doing an electrical mod, so be ready to face it too. There are lot of people have
achived this and no one have reported for battery fault due to over charging.Once the batt reaches its level of 14.5, it wont take any more to it and hence no overcharging. I think Abhi can explain this much easier.

If u still not sure about this, do as u suggested by way of a switch, u can shut down the RR while no lights, pretty safe gamble.

This is what exactly, the APE RR does, we just re route the light coils to the APE RR to fill the batt. Its output is 1:1 for max of 20A as the charging rate is like that on it. So if u can feed more AC to it the more u will get filled in ur capacitor Got it.

Keeping 2 RRs is not a good idea, there can be clashes, the best u can perserve teh stock RR for an emergency in case of this RR fails. And one more thing, ur stock RR is a AC+DC type, it can feed the batt max of 3.5A with a rewounded batt coil which I've checked. And u cant bypass the light coil to the batt with a stock RR as it wont support plus, u need to get isolate the grouding from the coil core to get the full output of the coil for DC.

see my bike is still AC+DC, its not full DC, so pilot lamps work on AC i guess as well as digital console lights, so the calculation is all right.

i have a single xenon magnetically moving Hi/Lo type fitting, so every time i shift upper/dipper, the bulb does not have to light up from zero. its just that the bulb moves forward/backwards to change the focus. so it does not take 6-9 Amps every time i use upper/dipper switch.

i think i will use the APE RR.

second thing is that my bike is still AC+DC so i will need the existing RR unit to run other things like pilot lamps, digital console light, etc etc..

what i will do is connect the light output coil through switch to APE RR unit and then APE RR unit to battery through a 10 A fuse.

but the sockets will not match....even i have to cut open certain wires and connect it by insulating tape. is it OK.

other thing is that what if there is a voltage difference....suppose at certain RPM one RR unit gives 13.0 V and other gives 13.5 or 12.5 V then what will happen?

[sajjt]

see my bike is still AC+DC, its not full DC, so pilot lamps work on AC i guess as well as digital console lights, so the calculation is all right.

i have a single xenon magnetically moving Hi/Lo type fitting, so every time i shift upper/dipper, the bulb does not have to light up from zero. its just that the bulb moves forward/backwards to change the focus. so it does not take 6-9 Amps every time i use upper/dipper switch.

i think i will use the APE RR.

second thing is that my bike is still AC+DC so i will need the existing RR unit to run other things like pilot lamps, digital console light, etc etc..

what i will do is connect the light output coil through switch to APE RR unit and then APE RR unit to battery through a 10 A fuse.

but the sockets will not match....even i have to cut open certain wires and connect it by insulating tape. is it OK.

other thing is that what if there is a voltage difference....suppose at certain RPM one RR unit gives 13.0 V and other gives 13.5 or 12.5 V then what will happen?

Dude, we havent found any smart AC+DC RR so far to boost the charging rates to a min of 6A. And its so obvious to look for such type too. I dont know the real impact of the double RR at a time, all I know is there can be issues like what you have mentioned in the last line, so its safe to use one RR at a time. My previous statement was based on full DC conversion, because of these issues. Previously I was also thinking about to keep the stock RR, but once I had this doubt and discussed with Abhi, I droped the idea. Now all I can say is avoid making it more complex. If u cant tackle 2 RR, then u'll've only one option left, make it full DC. So the thread becomes relevant for u too

One more update, ur stock batt coil will deliver a max of 1.5A after rewinding it can go upto 3.5A which I got. ( I rewounded both coils) I tried with this 3.5A charging rate and I was getting a backup time of 40 mins from an avg batt which got fried every night and eventually got screwed up in 2 months.

Dude, if u r using a telescopic HID too, the power for the beams are from the stock wire (to drive the relay) and each time u swtich to the other beam, power is getting swapped, got it? Try to switch on the HID, before getting warm, try to switch to the other beam, u can see there's a switching. Once the bulb is stabilized its not easy to notice it. If its not there u r lucky, ur HID control box is smart, else, u need to by pass.

Sockets wont match and u need to cut the wires to isolate them from the harness to make sure that its a seperate circuit. Dont see this as a silly mod, it can lead to very disastrous after effects once some thing went wrong. And if possible, dont use the insulation tape rather go for shrinking sleeves to seal them and it will ensure that the joints are intact.

If u can get a better single phase RR, u can use that too, only thing is it should be able to transfer what ever gets from the coil.

[princesirohi]

i am very confused ...????

btw what is a shrinking sleeve?

hey u said ur battery gave up in 2 months due to high charging rate. but earlier i was saying this and u contradicted? clarify yaar......bahut confusion hai.

i m editing this post 2nd time coz i have found out that certain type of battery chargers can be paralleled, but they are special ones. i m trying to figure out a way to charge teh battery using two chargers in parallel.

[Abhijeet Bhattacharjee]

bahut confusion hai.

i m editing this post 2nd time coz i have found out that certain type of battery chargers can be paralleled, but they are special ones. i m trying to figure out a way to charge teh battery using two chargers in parallel.

You wont have any advantage if u use 2 RR's in parallel, infact the net E.M.F for charging wont increase at all.

[drvmtm]

finally,finally,all things are in one place!!a much awated thing!!

[Shreeni0403]

hey u said ur battery gave up in 2 months due to high charging rate. but earlier i was saying this and u contradicted? clarify yaar......bahut confusion hai.

He meant the battery was fried bcz of insufficient charge before RR change.

[sajjt]

i am very confused ...????

btw what is a shrinking sleeve?

hey u said ur battery gave up in 2 months due to high charging rate. but earlier i was saying this and u contradicted? clarify yaar......bahut confusion hai.

i m editing this post 2nd time coz i have found out that certain type of battery chargers can be paralleled, but they are special ones. i m trying to figure out a way to charge teh battery using two chargers in parallel.

Heat shrinking sleeve can be used for insulation, will give a nice finish, better stability as its clings the wires or whatso ever very tightly. I couldnt use this for the first mods as I thought its available only bigger sizes, with a cigarette ligter u can do the job but for better finish u've to use a hot air gun.

See the finish and the insulation it offers


Dude, what I meant by frying the batt is depleting it fully to its last drop, how can a stock rr can overcharge and spoil the batt? I was reffering when I was on the stock RR and the HID, every night batt gets dry before I reach my home, and was depending on my spots to complete the journey.

As I said earlier, if u can get a smart AC+DC RR, its well and good for others who dont want to convert to full DC and pls do update it here, I've done with this RR after a series of RR change and till date its fine.

[Shreeni0403]

Heat shrinking sleeve can be used for insulation, will give a nice finish, better stability as its clings the wires or whatso ever very tightly. I couldnt use this for the first mods as I thought its available only bigger sizes, with a cigarette ligter u can do the job but for better finish u've to use a hot air gun.



See the finish and the insulation it offers


Dude, what I meant by frying the batt is depleting it fully to its last drop, how can a stock rr can overcharge and spoil the batt? I was reffering when I was on the stock RR and the HID, every night batt gets dry before I reach my home, and was depending on my spots to complete the journey.

As I said earlier, if u can get a smart AC+DC RR, its well and good for others who dont want to convert to full DC and pls do update it here, I've done with this RR after a series of RR change and till date its fine.

Can you plz resize the image !!


EDIT - Delete the image you have put

[sajjt]

Can you plz resize the image !!

its just a link man, cant do resizing, is there any way to fit them in a box while giving the link?

[abhijeet080808]

i am very confused ...????

btw what is a shrinking sleeve?

hey u said ur battery gave up in 2 months due to high charging rate. but earlier i was saying this and u contradicted? clarify yaar......bahut confusion hai.

i m editing this post 2nd time coz i have found out that certain type of battery chargers can be paralleled, but they are special ones. i m trying to figure out a way to charge teh battery using two chargers in parallel.

I think his batt gave up as it was not properly charging earlier. Shrinking sleeve is heat shrink. Use google!

Better avoid parallel charging. It would be too much complex. Why do you insist on using 2 RR units?

[sajjt]

Can you plz resize the image !!


EDIT - Delete the image you have put

R u happy?

But answer the other query about resizing within a frame while link

[princesirohi]

@sajjt, abhijeet, shreeni, rahuldev.


now since u all know my problem...

i have installed an HID and want to increase the charging rate. what shud i do?

1) i dont think i know an auto electrician who can do rewinding job. even i m not interested to mess with winding.

2) leaving the windings intact. i also dont want to convert my bike to full DC as some of the things still run on AC.

3) can someone tell me if i convert my bike to all DC, do i need to change the pilot lamps and digital display lights (which i dont think can be changed) to run on DC.

4) are AC and DC bulbs different.

suppose i disconnect the two wires going to RR unit from charging coils in stator and connect them to APE RR unit and APE RR unit output to battery leaving everything else intact. will it increase the charging current.

what do u guys suggest i shud do.

how many of you guys have rewound the coil and coverted the bike to full DC? and of course running succesfuly.

[rahuldevnath]

Hey Shreeni.. great initiative. I understand you are one of the few people on Xbhp, who have burnt their hands, and still don't refrain from plunging into the unknown.
I'm sure a Universal Sticky thread, would help lot of newbies, as even I see people again and again ask same questions.

@sajjt, abhijeet, shreeni, rahuldev.


now since u all know my problem...

i have installed an HID and want to increase the charging rate. what shud i do?

1) i dont think i know an auto electrician who can do rewinding job. even i m not interested to mess with winding.

There's no need to mess with the coil, no rewinding is required.

2) leaving the windings intact. i also dont want to convert my bike to full DC as some of the things still run on AC.

It's better to make whole bike DC, and charge your battery via a separate rectifier. Why do you want to have AC?

3) can someone tell me if i convert my bike to all DC, do i need to change the pilot lamps and digital display lights (which i dont think can be changed) to run on DC.

NO, not required, but pilots bulb can be replace with LEDs for better charging


4) are AC and DC bulbs different.

NO

suppose i disconnect the two wires going to RR unit from charging coils in stator and connect them to APE RR unit and APE RR unit output to battery leaving everything else intact. will it increase the charging current.

what do u guys suggest i shud do.

how many of you guys have rewound the coil and coverted the bike to full DC? and of course running succesfuly.

In your 150, simply there's a yellow wire coming from the stator coil. You have to cut it at the Starter Relay, and install a Rectifer (APE or a custom built one ).

Check the pic for the rectifier installed on P180UG3. Apart from one cut, there's no other change to bike's wiring, Everything is placed inside one single unit.

[princesirohi]

didn't get you, there is no wire going from stator coil to starter relay. starter relay receives all DC supply.

[sajjt]

Hey Shreeni.. great initiative. I understand you are one of the few people on Xbhp, who have burnt their hands, and still don't refrain from plunging into the unknown.
I'm sure a Universal Sticky thread, would help lot of newbies, as even I see people again and again ask same questions.

In your 150, simply there's a yellow wire coming from the stator coil. You have to cut it at the Starter Relay, and install a Rectifer (APE or a custom built one ).

Check the pic for the rectifier installed on P180UG3. Apart from one cut, there's no other change to bike's wiring, Everything is placed inside one single unit.

@sajjt, abhijeet, shreeni, rahuldev.


now since u all know my problem...

i have installed an HID and want to increase the charging rate. what shud i do?

1) i dont think i know an auto electrician who can do rewinding job. even i m not interested to mess with winding.

2) leaving the windings intact. i also dont want to convert my bike to full DC as some of the things still run on AC.

3) can someone tell me if i convert my bike to all DC, do i need to change the pilot lamps and digital display lights (which i dont think can be changed) to run on DC.

4) are AC and DC bulbs different.

suppose i disconnect the two wires going to RR unit from charging coils in stator and connect them to APE RR unit and APE RR unit output to battery leaving everything else intact. will it increase the charging current.

what do u guys suggest i shud do.

how many of you guys have rewound the coil and coverted the bike to full DC? and of course running succesfuly.

Rahul, princesirohi, there's a correction for wiring, u cant simply cut the yellow wire and feed to RR, as the stock RR is a AC+DC type, one of the light coil is grounded which is to be isolated to get the full DC output. And black wire from stator coil grounded within the harness to be isolated too. So ineffect, we need to fully isolate the yellow and black wires from the harness after isolating the grounding from the light coil and then feed to the new RR. And the RR DC out to be fed to the batt, and one more wire cut from the stock RR AC out wire (YR) to be tapped to the ignition switch out wire(Br), u r done and the wiring is on DC now, except the re routing power supply thru relays. Feed the SPST relay coils from the H/L beam wire/stock socket and take the power directly from the batt for the bulb with a higher guage wire. This is the wiring I am using and I feel rather depending on the harness fully, the isolation part will take care of any internal shorting or so. Wrong wiring can smoke the entire harness, even power from a mean 2.5A batt will do the job in secs.

Rahul is right, for an HID no need of coil rewinding required, only the recharge rate is to be altered. But u need to open the stator cover for isolating the grounding wire

Once u do the above wiring mod, all ur lights will be up as earlier but on DC, but if u r not going to rewind, u may sacrifice the pilot lamps as its eatingup of good chunk say 20W from the batt, note that ur HID rating is only 35W! and u may not get enough backup,but on higher rpm rides, will not affect this. Or u can even change to LEDs costing 100-300 range, better go for the higher range will offer a good life span.

Its a tricky mod, Am not sure about the outcome of keeping two RR. In case if u succeed too, u need to rewind the batt charging coil to boost the charging rate, what do u think? which is more easy? And why do u want AC lighting with you man? Evenif ur batt is flat too, if u got an aux lamp, still there's power from the RR just like u get from the AC lighting. I used my HID with a flat batt for 2-3 days, but my coil is 130W+ after rewinding.

Being with a single HID bulb, I strongly recomed for an aux light incase of an emergency as in case of failure to the HID, u'll be left in the darkness, no body can give u a spare HID bulb/Ballast from local spares.

Am on full DC for the past 4 months and everythings are as smooth as OEM. There are other members like Abhi, Shree etc. who r running on DC more than a year and they will vouch for this. If u do the wiring mods correctly u've nothing to worry, else, u've lot to worry Better take help from an experienced auto electrician not mech and brief him what all things are to be done, to avoid confusion later.

Now u decide what to do and Goodluck.