The Kit I would buy

Guys unfortunately I don't have an R15. If I could buy one in future here, this is the kit that I will Install, as travelling to Europe or getting them in Canada is no big deal for me. You can also get a cam & exhaust too. Most of the Europeans race with these.



Cheers - TZ750.

With all due respect anna ,I have mentioned very clearly that the original block was seized.And I still believe that the bike is has got seized again because of wrong fitments.That is why I have decided to change the entire engine parts after it has got seized for the second time.
I don't believe that there is any thing wrong with the 165cc bore and the piston.

-Boon

@Harish - Well, I need to answer this to make things clear to you.
Nobody said Yamaha is dumb. They are masters at what they are doing and they know their stuff. Engine seizure is a cause of human error - read - low engine oil level, improper seating/sealing, excessive abuse, high engine temperature, improper fitment etc.
Coming to the camshaft part, I'll explain.
A racing cam, compared to a street version has NO decomp lever. Reason - The function of a decomp lever is to leak the compression by mildly opening the exhaust valve during the initial crank for easy kick start. In case of the R15, the starter motor is of a very low rating to keep electrical load low. In a race cam profile, since you have a different base circle grind and a completely altered profile and also to enhance the low rpm throttle response is why the de-comp is taken off.
Please study more on race cams to know the reason. My offering is a race grind profile only which works for street. With a different base circle, a decomp cant be cut-in. So the cranking of the engine in case of the R15 will be longer by half a second.
Coming to your new bigbore version, the 170cc piston and even a 4th oversize ambition rings will technically not match. The 1mm o/s ambition is still only 59.5mm and your 61mm piston (if thats what it is to make 170cc) cant work. if its true, then its not 170cc. Again I'm telling you, please get your math right about the cc. You called my 60mm piston - 158cc. Please clarify how.
Friction between the piston and sleeve with added heat causes a seizure. I have seen plenty of stock engines develop a seize in stock form. So its a factor that holds true to even a tuning firm like Mugen or Spoon who are top in the world.
In the end, I dont understand whats your point to prove here. You are now happy with your 170cc engine, so please be. Let the discussion follow here.
Thanks a lot for your time taken to explain.

@ Joel

Thanks for your valuable time and patience too.

Now I have a different question to you, Is it okay to use a 12V 9Amps Battery with your ECU????

I am planning to use your ECU in a custom build bike for a competition that held within my office. It doesn't matter even if your warranty is void , Coz they are ready to purchase a new one for me if my unit falls down.

I will get in touch with shahdupeshkhan to get the accurate technical info on the rings used.

But here is a Pic of the Piston and ring that were used. The Piston came with a Yamaha carton with the 3D Hologram seal in it. My 1st question to shahdupeshkhan was, How will it fit the bore coz it looks completely different to the stock and Joel's piston. But he just re-sleeved and showed me how the Piston/Rings fit perfectly.

after going through all pages of this thread it reminds me the conversation i had with joel about mod scene in our country, people's mindset and all the hurdles he had to go through to reach this position...
This whole discussion will mislead new comers for sure...(never meant to say its wrong to openly discuss problems faced)
Only people who are into hotrodding previously with cheap mechanics(who were the only choice) who fixed plumbing hoses saying its ffe will know how heavenly it is to deal with joel, what ever trouble you are in he is there for you lending out his help.
I wish all happy riders with joelled r15s come up with their reviews not just lay back and have fun for themselves, after all apart from money its the only favour we can give to joel for transforming our rides...

I feel sorry for all those who went through issues, and like to say others follow joel's advice promptly, be extra carefull while leaving your bikes in service centres, take it slow and follow up with joel for any problems you face.... Do this and you will have most exciting ride of your life.:-)
enjoy hotrodding....:-)

^^^^ Hey guys...let's stop using filthy language here..it will only lead us into unnecessary arguments. I spoke to Harish after I saw his post, since I was thinking of getting my bike Joeled soon..he never said anything about Joel & what he is capable of, in fact we respect what he does & better not to question it, since he is the master & knows what he is doing. This has been a good thread, in regards to the unknown issues related to these mods, for people like me who are thinking of getting big bore soon but have little knowledge of it. There are many factors associated to these failures which we have already discussed here, so I don't think we need to point fingers at each other unless some one wants to add any technical aspects, own experience as well as suggestion related to these failures.
Hi Abhimanyu,
Sorry I'm editing this post only since I didn't want to increase the replies unnecessarily.
I think you misunderstood what I meant to say. I'm not taking anyone's side, but I believe let Joel & Harish discuss the engine seizure issue, instead of we concluding anything without justifying the root cause. Only Harish has to explain the chain off events and justify what he has said & Joel can point out where it went wrong. Since both the bore seized under similar conditions, it is highly possible that the root cause for both will be same.
My only expectation from this discussion is to find out the root cause so that in case if I/someone else go ahead with the big bore, this discussion will help us prevent this issue in the future.

I have a R15, spoke to Joel bout the mods, he promptly replied, I'm getting it done, just waiting to get things done here and go to Joel and ask him to personally install the parts, why ? Cause of improper installation methods and lack of knowledge, Joel did suggest to go the SVC and get the job done, but then I'd rather prefer spending more and get the job done, than trying to save some bucks and then cry later
So moral, the problem isn't with the parts, its with improper installation
period

This thread is beginning to look like a shark feeding frenzy...

Hmmm... I wonder what I have been doing till date .... just joking .....

@abhijitkn: Its not just about how much you may respect him and whether to question his knowledge or not... the fact is that HarishK has in his post made certain points, which is perfectly OK (free country and all), and at the same time Joel has countered those points with some facts and figures since much of it concerns his role in the building of HarishK's bike engine, for as quoted in latin "qui tacet consentire videtur", thus Joel has every right to point out any inconsistency.

Where things start going wrong or ugly is when HarishK instead of putting specific counter arguments and facts to Joel's arguments, facts and figures deviates from the argument and involves sundry and all... then it is no longer a discussion on technical matters, its turning out to be slug fight... For example, no one is even disputing the fact that HarishK has made changes to his engine of 170 cc. What was specifically asked by Joel was on what basis is HarishK saying that Joel Big Bore kit does not displace 165 cc as claimed by HarishK. For reasons best known to HarishK, he has not answered that and moved the arguments to other things like how his 170cc piston is great and all (again I am not disputing the same). Another example is the place where he claims that I am saying he claims in his post his bike reaches 18,500 rpm. When all I was doing was asking Joel, how can any IC engine (not HarishK's) sustain such rev ceiling with traditional valve setup, is it even physically possible. But for reasons know best to HarishK, he has taken issue to my raising the point.

Why is HarishK taking this so personally? As I pointed out before, this is not the end of the world nor is it the question on which the fate of the nation rest. Why get aggressive and personal? What is it that anyone is achieving by doing so, other than creating bad blood and bitter feelings.

I will leave it at these questions and will sign off this thread as its becoming a bit murky and personal.

I think he did clear this point.

Edit - I did overlook a post. I agree with abhimanyu31 on this.

^^^ Very respectfully, he did not... since you have taken the trouble to multiquote, please include the quote where I have asked Joel about how it is possible to rev to 18,500 rpm, the quote which incidentally should be placed between the second and third quote of HarishK to present the entire chronology of events.... Please show me where have I claimed that his bike revs to 18,500 rpm as alleged by him?

Abhijeet080808... as I said I don't want to argue on this but when a discussion becomes personal rather than remaining a technical one it turns murky and bitter...

Anyway, peace to all, don't want to make this ugly or argue to the point of making it personal... so my apologies for hurting anyone's feelings...

^^ Edited the earlier post. Sorry about the mix up.

At the end of the day, I think one question still stands - why did the bore seize? Is it improper run in? Is it the lean ECU setting as mentioned by Joel? Or is it a one off defective bore? (Its entirely possible - QC at the factory is not under Joel's control!) Or is it some inherent design flaw? (Joel's racing achievements rules this out, at least for me.) Or is it some other factor?

This question bugs me. So far did not find a clear answer on this.

PS - This is not at all personally directed at anyone. Just trying to think logically.

Well if you go back, I think in this thread or maybe another Harishk was complaining about a light on the console, which switches off after 30 secs, if I recall he didn't have the patience to wait, this is implemented to allow lubrication, so possibly the fellow was always in a rush, on a new bore or new engine this is a no no, engine components need lubrication, then after initial warm up, acceleration should be slow until you reach somewhere near optimum temperature, oil temp, correct warm up, correct oil and coolant levels, changing of gaskets, bolts tightened to the correct torque and correct installation of parts (installation should include checking for any worn parts etc.) these are all aspects that will give a modded or even stock engine on any vehicle a long life, most engine wear occurs within the first few minutes. You don't see cars, bikes or trucks tearing up tarmac on a cold engine do you?

^^ It is possible. Unfortunately, we will never know this. I guess he was saying that with Joel's ECU, the engine cold start warmup time at higher rpms (3k or so idle rpm) lasts longer than the stock ECU.

But the installation has been done at Joel's place - so no scope of error there.

Yes I remember, he got back to Madras and wasn't happy with the vibes and began tinkering, if I recall correctly.

Anyway I will be ordering some stuff from Joel on Monday or Tuesday, the mech I use is an ex SVC guy, had done my bike a few times with the former owner at the SVC, has set up on his own now, he has already done full installations (except Cylinder head0 of Joels gear, even so I will be there to help/monitor things. Going for a Big bore, air filter and FFE to begin with, if I have an order confirmed in the next day or two, I might also get the ecu and camshaft. Looking forward to having a tuned ride. The bike has only done 4.5k so far, anyone suggest what gaskets/part I should change for the install or we can keep them ready for D-Day?

Now back to my football!

Congrats! Be aware that the cam goes not have decomp mechanism as Joel has mentioned. Other than that, just run in carefully!

Changing the head gasket & cylinder gasket is recommended but not mandatory. But, change the chain auto tensioner mechanism gasket - I had a leak there..