To All,

I ain't a tuner or modify bikes and it ain't my business, so I am always good being called 'novice'

All I have updated is from my own personal experience and learning that I have came across and to be honest on my thoughts, nothing against anybody.

I never vented out this till now as I always used to think the problem could be on my side. But to be precise I have 5 XBHPians PM'd me about their bike getting seized or partially seized and not sure what to do. I just advised them to get back to Joel if they were in Bangalore or visit the Yamaha SVC at their city.

Let me be frank guys,

I agree to the point with abhimanyu31

There is no way that 100% results are guaranteed

Yes I do agree All modds were done at my own risk and I never complain or claim against anyone.

I have been to the Chennai race track a couple of times just to give company to my friend who runs a Tuning workshop at Chennai.

There were many bore seizures happening around the track day in and day out and all were scrapped out. There isn't much of an impact if a problem happens at the track with experts around.

But what about a commuter on the highway?

and how about missing an important official appointment?

or how about losing your bike for 3-4 weeks at the SVC center for an Engine over haul, that wasn't supposed to happen in the stock way? (Provided you depend on your bike for daily commuting)

All the above happened to me and trust me these were the only times when my bike failed at me.

Regarding Re-Boring I have these questions,

Do you think Yamaha has no knowledge with Re-boring??

Why do their Daytona Kit never disturbs the bore or engine and in-turn carefully focused on the Cam, sprockets and ECU???

Was the R125 engine Re-bored to derive at the R15???

Plonking the next size bore isn't a Joke, If Yamaha designs a 165CC engine the entire engine would be different, all components right from the crank would made suitable for a 165CC setup and not simply re-bored like a Pulsar or Apache.

Here, am not against Pulsars and Apaches as their engine have the potential to handle the additional CC, but R15's internals are very superior in quality but very accurately designed for an 150CC.(I mean fragile for a 165CC)

Without any technical jargons I simply say re-Boring the R15 to 165CC with that surplus compression is simply not advisable, atleast for a commuter.

May be I am not an expert, but I can certainly drag a Technical head from YMSI (Yamaha India), into this conversion about the Big bore(If its really required)

At Last,

I appreciate Joel's ECU and Air Filter, still I ride with it or cannot ride without it. No Problems found and it actually gives amazing grunt to the custom setup, even the Yamaha SVC center guys appreciate them. I even got an offer from a tuning shop to sell it to them and I directed them towards Joel.With My Experience I advice my fellow bikers to go for them, if affordable. I have done the same in all the replies to my PMs.

I know with this post I would be isolated or odd man out in this thread, but I am as honest as white, I wish others to post their feedback too.

One last word,

Modding your bike is at your own decision.

^@harish - Well, before you simply conclude on what Yamaha Internals can handle etc, please study the engine yourself. This engine starts from the 125cc package and goes all the way till 149cc. Infact we have bigbore engines running for over 2 years now. We have plenty of examples of the stock Diasil block from yamaha having a seizure. Fellow members like shining neptune, karthik etc have experience the same and are now happy with the bigbore. What do you say then? Also didnt understand how you got 158cc from this 60mm block!
Well, its an argument world over, of those who are for and against modding. I leave this at that.

Harish, dont worry mate, you are not getting isolated. Worldover there will always be people for and against modding. Everyone has their own views and theres nothing wrong about that.
I think you should have dropped a visit to Joel regarding your problem. Personally I didnt have one single problem dealing with Race Concepts. So much so that i never even called Joel, just a couple of casual mails were enough to get instant solution. And i stay far away in Calcutta, nowhere near Bangy.
Even i am finding that 158cc theory really startling

hi Harish, bro in the first quoted post you said yr using a 170cc bore, now your last post says 'r15's internals are fragile for a 165'??? am i missing something here?? don't you think your contradicting your self??

^^^ Not gone through his complete post carefully but noticed this..... Just out of curiosity, he mentions a 170 cc piston from a Yamaha outboard engine which he claims can rev to 18,500 rpm.... Joel, correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that anything above 17,000 rpm will require pneumatic operation or geared valve actuation aka desmodromic arrangement for accurate valve operation....

^well, anybody can claim anything. First off, they dont rev that much. Even motogp struggles to reliably rev to 18k.
Coming to the tuning upgrades from a factory, all manufacturers only provide minimal mods like bolt-on cams, ecu, exhaust etc unless and untill they come as a fully kitted engine from factory. Reason - to keep the install and other complications low. A fool proof system is always to just change the cam, ecu etc which have not much impact on the dyanamic function of the engine. Any fool can do the install too.
For ex, Honda has power upgrade kits and also kitted cars, developed by their inhouse company - Mugen. They come with cam, ecu, exhaust and gearbox upgrade. Nothing that still touches the actuall bottom engine. But then your power is also limited.

Then you have tuning shops like Spoon, Skunk, Bisi etc, who will give you kits which will make you make double the power, but showroom warranty is invalid. But why do most people across the world opt for a tuning shop upgrade? Coz they get more bang for the buck. Warranty factors are nothing considering the feel good factor. Hardcore tuning enthusiats will never own something off the shelf and also the risks involved are equally understood. Its by law of physics that you cant get 100% reliability when you are pushing the envelope to a great extent.
The R15 engine as in this context, is very well capable of handling a good 20cc extra. Not blindly quoting, but coz we spin it to 14000rpm making double the horsepower literally and abuse it in and out, at the track.

Joel: Not sure if you are referring me here , never had a seizure as such.

I have put the stock 150 bore kit to a much better use now. Paper weight + pen stand, beat that

Nevertheless, completed 20k+ kms on the big bore set up mostly in commuting 50kms a day in Bangalore's free flowing traffic and is still going great.

You have a point there!

That's innovative use of the old bore! Why didnt I think of that? Am gonna get it cleaned up and do the same! 20k+ kms already done on the big-bore eh? Nice! As for me, have ridden about 8k kms on the 165, which includes my everyday commute and weekend 130+ kmph, long distance speed runs and tours. I'm real happy with the kit, and I had the added advantage of getting it installed by Joel's man. Its unfortunate and unlucky that people are facing such issues. Like Joel and Abhimanyu rightly said, no engine setup can ever be 100% reliable. The reliability factor can be enforced by quality components (which Joel's parts are) and by proper and timely maintenance.

Cant comment on the R15, but as a joel'd RTR owner, reliability has not at all been an issue. I had a problem after i took it to TVS for general service, after which i had to go back to joel for re tuning. Its a risk worth taking

@ vineeth areth

Yep you are correct, I have re-sleeved Joel's 165CC Cylinder to match the 170CC Piston.

This 170CC piston was imported by shahdupeshkhan from XBHP. I thank him for his valuable support when I was dead in the water. He was the one who re-sleeved the Cylinder too.

He imported it from Yamaha Japan, which are used in their boats and capable of running upto 18,500RPM, I never said they run at 18,500RPM in my bike.

Unfortunately the Piston did come with rings in it, so he used Hero Honda Ambition piton rings to complete the job.

I too have a custom crank-con rod and lot of tit bits modded within the crank to get the setup corrected and with this Custom setup, the compression as measured by shahdupeshkhan is almost similar to the stock compression and hence with Joel's ECU, I am able to shift gears at 11,000 Rpm without an issue and You wont know how smooth the setup is.

I am not sure if shahdupeshkhan is active in XBHP now, but if he is then his comments are welcomed and may be more informative about my bike.

Boon from XBHP has tested my bike and he will better in explaining the Smoothness and very less Engine braking which is missing in his setup. Not to forget the setup has the exact same engine/exhaust note as the stock and I would say even silent at higher RPMs.

The next obvious question would be, Why did you go for a 170CC, when these modds could have been completed with the 165CC itself?

Thats because the 165CC Piston rings busted twice while I attempted to push the bike over 8,000RPM after proper run-in over 1000kms and that is why I needed a piston which is much more reliable and this 170CC piston has sufficed the need. I had to choose 170CC because already the 165CC Pistons rings have damaged the cylinder walls and I had to re-sleeve the bore for sure and was consious on mileage as well.

I never thought of going back to stock bore even after such issues, because I have spent already a fortune and never wanted to get back to square one.

I dont think many have understood my point, Just plonking the 165CC bore with that heavy compression on a stock R15 is what I say is not appropriate and source for all the issues. The entire engine must be modded to fit in precisely and it took,

Two Experts from XBHP, (Joel and Shah)
A tech lead from YMSI Hyderabad.
and two experienced R15 mechanics from Yamaha service in Chennai

+ 2 Months (Apr-May11) and obviously the currency

in order to get my bike modded to fit the 170CC with no difference to Stock in all aspects.


A Wise man always keeps his distance.......So I have tried my best to express my thoughts and am getting off.


@ abhimanyu31


I never mentioned that they run at 18,500RPM in my bike. Not to go far have you heard of the R6?

I think its better to stay stock and take rest in an Armchair rather pushing your busted bike to the svc center on a deserted highway.

Young man please get your facts straight!!! I never said that you claimed that your bike reaches 18,500 rpm. Please read my post carefully, I asked Joel, that if how come an outboard engine have 18,500 rpm rev ceiling (unless ofcourse your bike is an outboard engine). The R6 that you are pointing out with such a lot of haughtiness DOES NOT REACH THE INDICATED 17,500 RPM. Yamaha issued a letter of apology for the whole debacle and offered to buy the bike. Also as someone who is much older to you in age I am giving you some sincere advice; cool down, these are mere discussions not debates in British parliament on the issue of whether British to declare war on Hitler for invading Poland. You are being way too sensitive and reactive of the matter. Chill my friend, its not the end of the world.

The following is the text of the letter of apology (which I think is self explanatory):

The text of the letter sent by Yamaha to YZF-R6 purchasers follows:

Re: 2006 Yamaha YZF-R6 Motorcycle RPM Limit

Dear Customer:

Yamaha introduced and marketed the new 2006 YZF-R6 motorcycle with a red line limit of 17,500 RPM, as indicated on the tachometer. After testing production units, we have determined that the actual red line limit is approximately 16,000 RPM resulting in a tachometer error of roughly 9%. This has no affect whatsoever on the performance of the motorcycle.

We are extremely confident that, despite this error, the R6 will more than satisfy you in every way. However, if you are not satisfied with your motorcycle because of this discrepancy, we will repurchase it and will reimburse you the entire purchase price, including any setup fees, taxes or interest that you have paid in connection with your purchase of this motorcycle.

If you choose to have your 2006 YZF-R6 repurchased, please check where indicated below, sign this letter and return it to Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A., Attn.: 2006 YZF-R6 Buyback, 6555 Katella Ave., Cypress, CA 90630 in the stamped envelope provided. Yamaha must receive this letter indicating this choice by March 15, 2006, or we will assume that you have decided to keep and enjoy your motorcycle.

Our goal is to ensure your satisfaction, both now and in the future. We would like to sincerely apologize for this error and any inconvenience it may have caused you, and also to thank you for your continued support of Yamaha.

Best Regards.

Dennis McNeal
Vice President
Motorcycle Operations
Yamaha Motor Corp


I would like Yamaha Motor U.S. to repurchase the 2006 YZF-R6 that I recently purchased.

Acknowledged and agreed:
Signature:
Printed Name:
Date:
Contact Telephone Number: ___________________
Vin Number

@ abhimanyu31

Sorry for the Out of topic,

Yamaha YZF-R6 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Controversy

That's a straight Fact and everyone knows about it.

That mail was circulated in email during my college days.




Particularly, the 2006 R6 red lined at a true 16,200RPM and remember it just re-lined there and the actual reading goes up-to 20K. Means with a Proprietary ECU upgrade the bike breaks your theory and search the below forum for more info and also spend some time out there to know how exactly a Mod job is done. Not like a direct 615CC Re-bore.

2006 R6 17,500 rpm mistake [Archive] - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums

Just kidding

Not to forget I decided to Mod my bike only after reading your R165 review.

Yes I have ridden his bike previous Saturday.
Like Harish has already said,the bike runs butter smooth and at the same time it accelerate very fast.Thanks to Joel annas ECU and the 170cc bore+YAMAHAs special imported boat piston

@Harish
Enjoy your R17.I believe that yours bad time is over.I was there with you when you were stuck by the continuous waves of trouble.

@all
I will update by experience by the next twenty four hour.It will a big one and I request all to read it carefully.

Before I start to write my comment,let me give a small but important message to all the riders riding YAMAHA R15

**TELL THE SERVICE GUYS TO FILL THE ENGINE OIL IN FRONT OF YOU**

Now let me share my story that has started on January 2011 and is still going going on.Kindly do go through it.

JAN-2011
My bike has just completed 9000+ KM and one year of amazing and trouble free journey with me.Gave my bike for servicing few days ago and bought it three days back.The bike was running very smooth just like any other day.
One day early morning I went for a ride.The highway was empty and so I have decided to raise the throttle .
I was riding at a high RPM say around 9K and the bike was doing around 132 kmph.
All of a sudden, a loud noise came from the engine and the bike got stalled in the middle of the road.
Finally pushed the bike for 5km and reached home.The bike was not starting at all.
I have took the bike to SVC in the back of TATA MAGIC.The initial response from the service enginner was "We need to diagnose the bike.It may be an ECU malfunction".
One week later I was informed that it was a case of engine seizure as the bike was running at a high speed without any oil.I ran to the SVC with full of tears and frustration.The pain that cannot be explained and I dont want other to feel the same.
When I enquired about the fact that The bike was being serviced by SVC guys only a week back,then how come the oil level can be so low.
The reply that I got is that "May be the oil was leaking and was going at the top.It happens when the rings dont work properly."

Came back home and decided to contact the one and only Bike genius and a humble man,Mr Joel Joseph who has helped me a lot.Lots of mails were exchanged and just like a Good teacher,he has replied my each and every questions and has cleared my doubts

FEB-2011
Met Joel anna in MMRC race track,and got the amazing piece of shining bore and the black piston.I was on cloud number nine.The very next day I went to SVC mechanic and showed him the kit.His reaction was positive and has told me that the piston and bore are made from the highest quality of material.
He has fixed the kit and and filled a semi synthetic oil too.Bought my bike back to home after two months.The bike was pulling like a small rocket.But I have decided not to rev my bike above 5k for the next 600 kilometers.
After the completion of the 600 kilometers,I have replaced the oil filter, and filled the bike with SHELL fully synthetic oil.

MARCH TO 31ST MAY-2011
It was 24 March,and I thought of revving my bike to its extent.Went to Chennai Bangalore bypass.The bike was picking like a rocket at initial rpm but when the rpm has touched around 8700 rpm the same terrible sound came back from the bike and the bike was refusing to go more.Some how I have bought the bike back to YAMAHA SVC and told them to open the entire engine.
The next evening they have opened the engine and found that the engine has seized again and the valves have been damaged a little.

Immediately called to Joel anna and has promised to help me.I have got a new bore kit from him as a replacement.I thought of fixing the FFE too as it will allow the the bike to run without any barrier.
They have once again replaced the entire kit and at the same time fitted the FFE too.I thought of changing and installing four new valves.Changed the engine oil and oil filter too.
Now my bike was running and responding more aggressively and I was enjoying the kind of attention that I was getting on the roads.

JULY 19TH TO AUGUST 11TH-2011
I came back from my my home after a month long holiday and started my bike.It has started at the first crank itself and I was so relieved.I have already done 500 kilometer and after riding the bike for next 120 kilometer,once again I have decided the change the Engine oil and oil filter.This time I have gone for MOTUL Full synthetic oil.
I went for a long ride across the city and everything was fine.The only thing that I have noticed that whenever I ride my bike for more than half an hour,the bike gives a KAT-KAT-KAT sound at the sudden increase in throttle.Its kike say the needle is at 1500 rpm and suddenly it you raise it to 3000 or 3500 rpm with a jerk,the bike gives a irritating KAT-KAT-KAT sound.
I thought of not raising the throttle to its extent until a proper checking is done to the bike.One week back I have given my bike to a service center and told an experienced YAMAHA mechanic to open and call me.He did what he was told and I went immediately.
This time the bore and the piston was at perfect condition and no defects( scratches) were found.But the entire camshaft along with the valves have been damaged very badly, and it needs to be replaced soon.
Told him to change the camshaft,four new valves, and clutch bell assembly too.
I will go and receive the bike on Saturday.

THE NEXT AND THE FINAL STEP-
I am so tired and financially weak that I have no energy left to carry on the fight.The frustration that I have felt over those month cannot be explained.
After I take my bike back I will go to a lonely highway and go for the full throttle.If the bike attains the rev limiter without any delay then I will shout and laugh like a mad.
But if I face any kind of problem including seizure,than that will be my last ride on this bike


Whenever I sit alone ,I curse myself for not checking the engine oil level the day I went for that unlucky ride.

@all
Don't believe the Service guys blindly and at least check the engine oil level before you go for a ride,whether Its one day after the last service.



-BOON


P.S-If there is any kind of spelling mistakes or grammatical errors then kindly forgive.My hands are paining and I am very very tired.

Kind of OT
But why you guys leave the bike at the service station?? I have been present most of the times when the bike gets serviced. I pay attention to what they do and keep on asking them queries.
Be it any company, the attitude / knowledge of the service engineers are almost similar.