General SBK Discussion Thread

[superjd]

resorting to correcting grammar ? If yes then 'increase sales' is not the same as 'increased sales'.


lol keep telling yourself that...that shall certainly increase your pleasure of possesing a Duc untill december. For as much as you dont want it I shall come burst your bubble this year end when I buy the 1198S. The difference ? I shall not talk out of owner affinity. I shall call the blades front end ugly and I shall maintain that the Ducs are overpriced for the performance they have to offer even after owning a Duc.


I concur
Getting the racefit from PRS was my best decision while my worst decision would be at the end of this year !


The machines aint shite. The Pricing is ! Big difference ! No ?
Say good friend, I would love to come ride with the CBRs and CBs in your group. Maybe I can help you convince your friends into buying a Racefit while you convince me not to buy a Ducati ? Online personalities usually differ from the real life personalities. I guarantee you will like me a lot !

I too think we are done beating around the bush here. Mods have been pretty sweet to us untill now ! So see you riding one of these weekends and ride safe !

P.S : dont take riding school lessons to become mick doohan. Take them to know what bikes really perform like and how to save your bacon while exploiting the performance !
Trivia :This coming january Andy Ibbott of California Superbike School will also have something special to tell you regarding a Ducati which he shared with us this year in Feb. Dont sit on a duc with its stand on to test your body language on a static bike.
"Its italian"

so i'm lost.. ppl. help me out a bit, you say ducati's are overpriced for what they offer in terms of performance yet you are willing to spend tons of money on a 1198s (from what i've read its almost double the cost in india)... why create the drama out here then? .. are you just looking for attention... there are better ways for getting that...

[TenHut]

Increase sales, not increased.

resorting to correcting grammar ? If yes then 'increase sales' is not the same as 'increased sales'.

You have quite a few posts on how ducati's are not worth it so I stand by what I said; sour grapes.

lol keep telling yourself that...that shall certainly increase your pleasure of possesing a Duc untill december. For as much as you dont want it I shall come burst your bubble this year end when I buy the 1198S. The difference ? I shall not talk out of owner affinity. I shall call the blades front end ugly and I shall maintain that the Ducs are overpriced for the performance they have to offer even after owning a Duc.

From what little I know of you, perhaps the only sensible decision I can see

I concur
Getting the racefit from PRS was my best decision while my worst decision would be at the end of this year !

Ducatis are shite, don't ever buy one and spread the word around.

The machines aint shite. The Pricing is ! Big difference ! No ?
Say good friend, I would love to come ride with the CBRs and CBs in your group. Maybe I can help you convince your friends into buying a Racefit while you convince me not to buy a Ducati ? Online personalities usually differ from the real life personalities. I guarantee you will like me a lot !

I too think we are done beating around the bush here. Mods have been pretty sweet to us untill now ! So see you riding one of these weekends and ride safe !

P.S : dont take riding school lessons to become mick doohan. Take them to know what bikes really perform like and how to save your bacon while exploiting the performance !
Trivia :This coming january Andy Ibbott of California Superbike School will also have something special to tell you regarding a Ducati which he shared with us this year in Feb. Dont sit on a duc with its stand on to test your body language on a static bike.
"Its italian"

[sheelpriye]

but paying is 12-14l extra is something i cant digest...

I believe we should keep our esteemed opinion under a closet

As, I haven't ridden nor a Jap i-4(hope 4 wheels don't count in here) nor a v-4/2,(nano lol) so I think I am not deemed fit to blurt anything out.
but hey, if you have, of course you may pour in your thoughts.
Peace

[kinshuk.arya]

that was a whole lot of knowledge for people like us who dont know the differences between inlines and vees....

thanks Streetfighter.
thanks Tenhut

but paying is 12-14l extra is something i cant digest...

[Streetfighter]

who is comparing them. I am pointing out the fact that they cost the same...and that they are not in the same class IS EXACTLY my issue. They cost the same and are nowhere close to each other in performance.

To me that sounds like a comparison

No the price drop wasnt due to duties or exhange rates nor due to increased sales.

Increase sales, not increased. But whatever you say, since you seem to know a lot about ducati, bikes, business and life in general I won't argue.

No, the 848 not having a steering damper is merely an example. I would never buy that bike...

Thank you, we don't want Ducati haters in our super exclusive, snooty, look how cool I am club.

When you say riding a Ducati feels different and better than the jap bikes which are found on the roads by the ton, I giggle. It comes accross to me as "hey mine maybe small, but I am glad its unique"

Did I say that? If I did I'm sorry for belittling you. But it does feel different; and certainly better for me cause I like Vs (yes I've owned v-4s too), especially V twins. Mine isn't that small, certainly unique though. You got an inferiority complex in that department too?

Sorry dude, I ride 3 Jap bikes but I guess some of the attitude brushed onto me too

Wow, you are so cool! Wish I had as much spare time as you to ride 3 bikes.

On the contrary I think some Ducati owners are too proud to admit that their precious $$ could have been better spent somewhere else. This will sound very unfair as this may not be applicable to you but is applicable to most Ducati owners out there.

Yeah I could have bought an R15 or a Ninja250R; given up work and traveled around India and the world hoping to become the next Wayne Rainey or Mick Doohan. Unfortunately age caught up with me, it's too late now.

All said and done I am loving this discussion...finally something better than
"oh congrats on your nice bike"
"nice I love this bike "
"oh wow awesome gear.."
"the front end is ugly"
"the front end looks like megatron"

We are all riders...we ride for pleasure and we discuss for enlarging our perspectives...and so what if we throw in a few tantrums and trolls while we are at it. Thats the fun part of posting online...

You have quite a few posts on how ducati's are not worth it so I stand by what I said; sour grapes.

BTW, do you like the racefit's you got from vj/prasad? I love racefit's; I was trying to convince my friends to put them on their blades but they're too chicken. From what little I know of you, perhaps the only sensible decision I can see Yeah, we got quite a few blades and cb1000s in our group.

Ducatis are shite, don't ever buy one and spread the word around. Will help in maintaining exclusivity in addition to the already present performance. End of discussion for me, over and out.

[niranjanvaidya]

Hey Hey Hey! Good read!

Now I am sure where I would get a fix for my high.

hahahaha...touche!!

[darkknight]

Hey Hey Hey! Good read!

Now I am sure where I would get a fix for my high.

Indeed my man indeed.
Doesn't get better than this

[sheelpriye]

Hey Hey Hey! Good read!

Now I am sure where I would get a fix for my high.

[TenHut]

Oh, and you need to get your facts right; it's a CB1000R. Xcess version, done by an italian design house.

I think you got confused between the cbr1000rr and the cb1000r. Visit the honda website and learn about the differences.

I ride a grandRR myself and have test ridden the Cb1000R when I was at the showroom buying the 1000RR
If you notice the picture i posted is called " guessbike "
It was posted as not many know of CB1000R Xess ( not Xcess) and hence the title " CBR1000RR now a street fighter " was thrown in mislead on purpose...thats why "guess bike"
The line " twice the performance at half the price" was a troll....and was not used specifically to compare CB vs SF but to compare bikes vs Ducatis in general.

Are you answered ?

[TenHut]

I don't care about s1000rr or cbr or r1; why are you even comparing them to an 848, not in the same class.

who is comparing them. I am pointing out the fact that they cost the same...and that they are not in the same class IS EXACTLY my issue. They cost the same and are nowhere close to each other in performance.

Price drop has reasons; duties, exchange rate, increase sales, etc.

No the price drop wasnt due to duties or exhange rates nor due to increased sales.

It seems, like already pointed out above, you just have an issue with the 848 not having a steering damper.

No, the 848 not having a steering damper is merely an example. I would never buy that bike...

We'll wait for a new thread to hear you crib about that too; perhaps no adjustable frame?

If the BMW decides to unethically loot by dangling the brand carrot, hell yes I will then make another thread to crib about it. Because thats not business 101 as someone pointed out. Thats trying to get away by exploiting the elitist thinkers amongst the masses perhaps !
When you say riding a Ducati feels different and better than the jap bikes which are found on the roads by the ton, I giggle. It comes accross to me as "hey mine maybe small, but I am glad its unique"

Sorry dude, I ride 3 Jap bikes but I guess some of the attitude brushed onto me too

TenHut;494650] I think everyone who complains that ducatis arent worth the money will buy a ducati if they had a few $$ more to spare

Lemme give you my example...i was refraining from touching these topics as one has to be gay to make such a conversation but what the hell. As long as its taken the right way.
I have spent an amount twice the price(indian price) of a 1198S onto my biking in a single year. I went ahead and invested heavily in California Superbike Schooling sessions and also in random trackday abroad and on 3 bikes one of which I even managed to total in 21 days like a total noob.
But I did not buy the 1198S..I am still only pondering whether I should buy it or spend that money on riding schools.
So everyone who complains isnt doing so for the grapes are sour or they dont have the $$ to spare. On the contrary I think some Ducati owners are too proud to admit that their precious $$ could have been better spent somewhere else. This will sound very unfair as this may not be applicable to you but is applicable to most Ducati owners out there.

I agree, it has a lot to do with the rider's capabilities. What I'd meant was you take the 1198 and any other bike going at the same pace into a turn, coming out of that turn the bike with more torque will pull harder.

Again the reason why you find torque down low on a twin and up high on a four has nothign to do with the fact that they are twins or fours. Engine layout isnt determining the torque you are so loving on your 1198S.
Its the intake-charge velocity which is determining that. So if you take a 1198S which has been worked on and tuned for the tracks and compare its graphs to a stock inline four you will think the 1198S is hauling ass. Now if you decrease the intake charge velocity on the same four..put into the head the largest and the lightest valves you will have a four with more torque than the twin and an even more HP for the tracks. So dont generalise saying twins have more power off the turns. You are comparing a stock bike to a not stock bike when talkign about torque out the corners and therein lies the fallacy.

It is definitely not a wrong interpretation! They have frictional losses like any other inline 4, even if the losses are more the torque is still much higher. See the attached images. The twin doesnt just give you torque down low, it has higher torque all the way upto 10,000rpm.

Publore says they have you more torque. Also twins have more frictional losses in the valve train, thanks to needing two sets of slightly larger cams, two cam chains, stiffer springs pushing on larger, heavier valves moving through more lift and, of course, all the bearings necessary to support all the extra hardware.
Add to that the fact that, the frictional losses incease by the square in relation to cam rotation speed- and remember, you have four cams pushing on the bigger valves and hardwarepunches all the right feel-good buttons and hence I am pondering of buying one.
But I aint buying one cause its got better torque down low or better drive out a corner..

I think, the truth of the matter is that it depends on your riding style. A twin does not have a sudden power band. The power comes on straight and linear...so no sudden surprises. A lazy rider will like this, as was said, you really don't need to worry about what gear you're in comming out of the corner. Hit the gas and go. An I4 takes a little more thought, if you hit the gas at any point and you're in the right gear you're gonna either flip the sucker, loose traction and go ditch surfing, or bog down and cruise out of the corner like grandma with a trailer. Although apply a nice smooth throttle, in the right gear, and you leave the twin wondering where you went...if you've got the skill to pull it off.

Thats what I meant when I said the twin is a relaxed fast ride while the inline a more involved fast ride.

Now twins vs inlines wasnt the discussion at all.
My point was the Ducs are an overkill when it comes to price for the performance they have to offer. And then the publore which always makes twins seem like they are this creation of god and gibberish. It is a lifestyle product at this price..thats about it. Nothing else.

All said and done I am loving this discussion...finally something better than
"oh congrats on your nice bike"
"nice I love this bike "
"oh wow awesome gear.."
"the front end is ugly"
"the front end looks like megatron"

We are all riders...we ride for pleasure and we discuss for enlarging our perspectives...and so what if we throw in a few tantrums and trolls while we are at it. Thats the fun part of posting online...

[kachhhing]

I think you got confused between the cbr1000rr and the cb1000r. Visit the honda website and learn about the differences.[/QUOTE]

aw come on dude !!! now thats being nasty......
but i agree.. one look at the streetfighter is enough to floor any one
one question, i fu r strictly gonna ride ur bikes on mumbai roads, would u rather have a CB or a SF?
I would go with what my heart than my head and go for the SF, cuz personally i love the attitude the bike has.... my 2 cents of course !!

[kachhhing]

Ducati slashed their prices like nuts out here. 848 got cheaper by 3.5 lakhs OTR. You wanna guess where that extra money was going earlier ? Into the ducati "charge the customer for brand" account. Cmon dude...whether its made by hand or robot..plonk in a steering damper..the thing does good speeds...lack of one on a 17 lakhs bike cannot be justified. If running out of hands get a robot maybe or just get more hands. I dont buy the 'hand built' argument.

Step 1 : Buy a BMW..or any jap bike.
Step 2 : Now race tune the shit out of it and carbon fibre the thing black.
Step 3 : See how light it is now ! See how much power it now makes ! See how much torque it now makes !
Step 4 : Now see if it costed you more than the price of 1198S ?

Point is, if you put the extra money on a jap bike or a BMW cause you wanna make it close to a WSBK bike you will end up with something that rapes the track and you could buy yourselves shit loads of slicks and still have some money left over. So the price at which 1198S stands you cant really compare it to stock bikes ! 1198S is not stock, it is to ducati what AMG is to Mercedes.

I have ridden 22 laps at hockenheim on the 1198S.
The torque advantage you speak of doesnt guarantee you a good drive out a corner. You still have to work towards getting a good drive just as much as you have to work on any other engine configuration. That Vtwins make more torque is also a wrong interpretation. They also have highest frictional power losses. A twin gives you a more relaxed fast ride due to the torque down low while the japs give you an involved fast ride. Common word for both being : fast !

Take my opinion as you would of anyone random on the street. Everyone has theirs...I am just voicing it for I love to compare bikes...my next bike is a 1198S so I aint saying they should stop making bikes..I am just saying they should come out of that 'I am elite' attitude and give me my moneys worth.


yes, thats what is happening. So the others will compete now. Like everybody has since aeons. 2011 ZX10R with its gizmos and shit loads of HP is rumoured to be the BMW killer isnt it ?


now thats a point I cant argue against. Performance on the street really is a moot point. Well said.


no that was just a comment to get your attention

Agree, u spend some extra moolah on the beemer and u will have a duke breaker...... but when u sell the bike u wont get any money back for all the extra stuff on the bike.
while when u sell the duke u will always make the money back

[kachhhing]

I own a 696 and a 1198s and ive ridden many jap bikes and I completely disagree.

Ducati are priced so high not only because of brand name! Do you know that ducatis are not mass produced like the japanese sport bikes? They are mostly hand built which requires a lot of time as opposed to how jap bikes are built and assembled, automation!

Do you know that ducatis are always the lightest bikes in their respective classes? i own a 1198s which weights 169kg, compare that to any other bike including the s1000rr (183kg) and youl know what im talking about. The vtwins have more torque to weight than any other bikes, 97lb-ft @ 8000rpm for the 1198 vs the 82.5 lb-ft @ 9,750 rpm for the bmw. The torque peaks well before on the 1198. Do you know what that means? That means coming out of a corner the 1198 will smoke the bmw. The same goes with the bhp, you have more horses on tap on the 1198 at very low rpms! I agree that the max is lower on the 1198, but the difference in torque makes up for it. The 1198s is closest to its WSBK counterpart than any other manufacturer out there.

About the price, dont compare the bmw to the 848 or the 1198. Compare it to the other jap bikes, its priced similar to all other liter bikes but has so much more to offer. Whys that? I believe bmw is taking a loss on the s1000rr since theyre entering an area where japs and italians have dominated for the last god knows how many years and they want to prove they can make equally good bikes.

i dont buy the hand built shit !!! it is criminal to charge a premium for the bike and not have all the electronic / hydrolic aid the other bikes have , but having said that, the dukes build their bikes to sell...... damper or no damper.. they do sell !! so am sure they arent complaining , neither do any of the duke owners

[kachhhing]

[QUOTE=TenHut;494331]I dont mind paying the premium. But I do mind if the premium is for the brand alone and not for performance.

how many people who buy these bikes take them to the track??? stats say 9%

e.g : S1000RR will cost roughly the same as an 848
848 doesnt even have a steering damper and needless to say the S1000RR has every god damn thing out there. The BMW is a true exotic bike.

u have to admit..... the beemer doesnt look half as good as the 848, its just a gorgeous machine.
i buy my bikes for the looks and yes decent performance

[kachhhing]

Do I detect a hint of sour grapes?

lol..... surely a case of sour grapes