Sir, if you have diffculty in reading and understanding kindly refrain from posting too. My words are straight enough for anyone to understand about the complexity and probablity for an error while modding and compare it with a stock ride to take a precise decision. Previously while stepping into modds, we had only one dimension on XBHP for a noobs like me to think and decide, now I hope this thread adds another dimension.

And we are talking about R15 here...Best of luck with your FZs

the heat increased considerably, but for good, it was very much needed that joel replies to all that is being said here about his work, thanks to him.

and thanks to other members for taking the discussion to finer details. it was very much needed to clear things out.

but now the discussion has heated to such an extent that both the parties have started using abusive and bad words. thats not good.

but still the picture is not very clear, a few more replies from both the parties may make things clearer, but i don't think that will be coming.

one thing i understood is nobody is "dudh ka dhula"

and one thing i wanna say is if i purchase a product from someone and i am not happy with the results, i will approach the seller to tell him and ask him to do something, but i will only do this a couple of times, and then i will get frustrated and look for other ways and means to rectify the issue. natural human tendency.

another thing i feel is joel has been tuning bikes since quite a significant time, and has put some hard work in it, whether or not his products are good is a different issue. because of his hard work, he wants to reap the benefits, and if someone/something/some incident goes against, he dislikes it. natural human tendency.

harishk, also helps/tunes bikes and sells some aftermarket performance oriented parts, so he wants to maximize his turnover. natural human tendency.

so far i could only understand these natural human tendencies, from this thread and some other threads and other forms of communication with various members.

how good and reliable are RC performance modifications/tune/parts..?? is a question still unanswered.

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below is what i feel-->>

abhijeet's engine failure may be a geniune case, and reason may be quality of parts.

now, there are two things, design of parts and manufacturing, obviously joel does not craft them by hand, some factory manufactures it for him. even stock company factories can not produce 100% perfect parts/motorcycles. obviously even if joel does not like it or does not agree to it, some percentage of his parts will be less perfect and more prone to failure. and that may be the reason some members have reported failures, and that may be the reason, joel is ready and wiling to replace any faulty parts free of cost.

regarding design of parts, i don't think there should be an issue, because first, joel is not new to motorcycle tunning, second, with so much of modifications and tunning going around the world and so much means of communications, i think tuners/modifiers/engineers must be in constant touch with fellow tuners around the world for knowledge sharing, that if there would have been any serious issue with design part, joel would have been out of business by now. any tuner, trying to make a quick buck, with half knowledge will not survive long enough.

although i am not an expert, and i may be wrong, but little bit rich or lean mixture should not blow a ring. the problem may be in the part.

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a few suggestions to joel-

1) plz don't sell parts off the shelf, specially engine parts, somebody purchases a big block, gets it installed at an xyz mechanic, that mechanic messes with installation, owner blames you. better tell your customers to bring the bike and get it installed by your trusted mechanic/or at your place. will reduce your headache.
2) ECU mapping, better lock it, so that nobody messes with it later and blame you, unless you can trust the customer.
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a few suggestions to future customers--
1) no matter what seller tells you, stock is stock, in terms of reliability, specially when things are as unclear as they are, and you are not an expert.
2) modifying and tunning has its inherent risks, maybe because of very simple things like manufacturing can not be 100% perfect and you may get that 1 in a million piece, which is less than perfect.
3) incase you are an unhappy customer, plz try to get it resolved by the seller itself first.
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regarding how much bump in power after mods, i do not know, and that is the reason some members continuously ask for dyno results and all, and i also understand that dyno is a costly affair, but it will only help joel to substantiate his claims, so a request to joel, get it as soon as possible, it will only help you.

just today, i had a detailed discussion with the GPRS back end support team of a netsetter i am using coz i have launched so many complaints. i was shocked to know that a 3.6/7.2 MBPS 3G connection has a download speed of only 100 kbps, i expected atleast 0.5 MBPS download speed, and then he explained, technical terms and intricacies like connection speed and download speed and the difference between them. i was like WTH.
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Disclaimer: above is based on the information available to me, and my own understanding, and that is why i wrote " i feel that ...", if anyone disagrees or dislikes anything mentioned above, plz ignore it, or .... if you want me to take it down, plz inform me....
i have no intention to disregard anyone or blame anyone or insult anyone or disregard anyone's hard work. plz don't abuse me. this is just what i feel is the issue. i am not perfect and my knowledge and understanding is also not 100%, but so is everybody. plz forgive me if anything is incorrect.

This cannot be called wild guess or may called guessed wild. I claim "A bit lean mixture has the potential to blow a ring" that too very specifically on a high comp setup, can you deny it?. Sitting back comfortably and commenting is anytime easier than taking a wrench in hand. This is one main reason why most victims seldom care to come forward and tell the world, coz simply the blame would be pointed on the customer himself, or his mechanic or even his doodh wala.

You miss a very basic point here, if the setup is perfect, who cares if the ECU was locked or not? My question is, 1000 ways of root cause analysis are done after a failure occurs and why not a precaution is taken till date? The simple answer is no after market tuner can be sure about his work unlike the OEM, simple example a stock R15 runs well at all geographies. I have reported your words to modds, be a little concrete with your words there is no more room for assumptions. There are no two parties here campaigning for election and as like I mentioned previously do not crib on business stand point here, ppl who are happy/affected are updating their experience here.

Abhijeet080808 has taken the right decision by reverting back to stock, which I thought was like giving-up and never wanted to do it and hence endedup with these modds. Anyways world doesn't end here, just after riding the P200NS I got a little respect towards BAL now, likewise looking forward to see some real time development from tuners to give a trouble free experience to their customers, if they can.

i think i have conveyed what i feel, and i am out of this mess, i came in looking for answers, and am going out knowing there is more dirt than expected.

my posts already reported to mods, if they feel, they will delete it.

Sorry to say but what i was thinking is If we want to mod R15 with excellent perfomrance then why not a Datona kit??

There are ranges which are based on us which to buy all in all it costs approx40-50k, But i here see people doing mod with approx near to this right ??

Then why don't we go with Datona which is actually made for R15 only ??
Self Tuner is nice but we have an option here too !!

Yes you're right, but sorry to shatter the Daytona dreams as even Yamaha doesn't endorse warranty either for the kit nor for the bike running on Daytona kits. Additionally, have seen seized daytona bikes in Kari Speedway too. So, that is ruled out again. The only way for never ending thirst for speed is either buy a bigger bike & have a piece of mind saving words here or stick to stock & be happy with it.

40-50k whoa!! that's a quite big amount for Modfykeytion. Seriously, am just an egg and dont know about Moddfy cost so much.

Sometimes...ignorance is bliss

So...does that mean our internet tuners are providing reliable tuning kits than the manufacturer themselves

Oye seriously am not very educated about the modifications. But i liked "Dual Disc's" comment- The only way for never ending thirst for speed is either buy a bigger bike & have a piece of mind saving words here or stick to stock & be happy with it - very true isnt it?

@princesirohi - I by and large agree with what you have said.

One more thing, most people in my position would have gone to Joel and he would have given a replacement block that would run for another 5k-10k or even 20k kms. Its like gamble. If things works fine all is well. The customer would not complain and things would go on as it is. No one would come to know about the earlier failure. In most cases, the owners would loose interest in the bike for various reasons and sell off the bike before long. In that case too, no one would know about the failures.

In any case, its basic human tendency to justify one's past decision. Same reason some people support crap products. Part of the reason Harish could not go back to stock. (No offence meant!)

I am very sure that there are not more than a handful of modded R15s that has run 30k kms or more on the same bore.

Also, another point to consider is the cost of related components in case of failure. If I would have accepted another bore from Joel and lets say that failed after another 5k kms, but this time with catastrophic results - bent valves, hole in piston, worn out/broken crank etc, will Joel pay me for those? The answer is NO. And something like that has already happened on this very thread.

Point to think - if Tata makes cars with recurring small niggles, we swear off Tata. However, here the whole engine blows up and we say its acceptable? I don't think so. The point is Joel promised me stock reliability and he could not deliver. What on earth will I do with all the power, if the engine itself does not run reliably?

Anyways, I have said all that I wanted to. Thanks to xBhp for giving me the opportunity. As they say, a fool and his money shall soon be parted! No prize for guessing who that fool is, rather was!

Those are not only Dual's words, but comes out of everyone who really strive hard, learn to carry out their own performance mods, most often being cheated or knows inside out of what they're doing. Those words comes more out of honesty & experience

IronHide Shetty - Would like to quote one of the famous tagline that I not only learned at xBhp but also realized through my experience - One cannot buy a donkey, feed elephant's diet to make it run like Horse.

Apologies to Harish for my OT

How many ??
You know when i went though the Datona set kit, there are three set and all set has an option to buy what you want, But i guess this is the reason why it's seized!! If we buy full set then it won't. If Yamaha is recommending it then surely it is worth, rather than banging our head here and there for modification, right??

And infact a tuner F@@ks his own money for this modification to that level, he can't go back, but get it complete!!

I feel running in pothooe roads is better than running inDark. Where as both ways we are likely to fall, But in potholes you can little aware of loss and gains. IN dark road you are glambing whether there would be a gain or not ??

Seconf bold is absolutely correct, It's better to buy a bigger bike and Smile all the way round!!

Don't worry Mate, People go beyond this. If i have an itch to modify my R15 any day i will spend 50k to get it done rather than this all stuff and getting each an every part ramped!!

If a person is able to buy a bike for 1.3L then in 1-2 yrs he can spend 50k also. Money is something people arrange for dreams, We don't arrange dream with Money!!

This is absolutely correct!! Reliability is something that a person should thing before Rampping his machine!! But surely one thinks, becuase younge tuners here are getting it for Cheap price!!! and they are ready to take the risk!!

BTW do we get gaurantee or Warranty like company gives on engine for some year ??

If there is no reliability then what will we do with the power and speed?? Ride it for 1 week and blow it off next week, and Kool ourself !!....ROFL....

Ok, here's a elaborate costing of Daytona Kit for your records;

Muffler Kit is Rs. 16,000 /- includes;
a) FFE
b) Exhaust Bend Pipe
c) Bracket Kit Exhaust


Engine Kit is Rs. 31,000 /- includes
a) Racing ECU
b) High lift Cam Shift
c) Muffler Kit

Body kit is Rs. 20,000/- includes


a) Brake Caliper Bracket
b) Brake Disc (300 mm or 280 mm Petal I guess)
c) Brake Hose Front (Steel Braided)
d) Brake Hose Rear (Steel Braided)
e) Front Brake Master Cylinder
f) Step Plate (to mount the Caliper)

Pls. note. that all these prices are Ex-Showroom ones and add taxes accordingly

Exactly..

Don't worry Mate, People go beyond this. If i have an itch to modify my R15 any day i will spend 50k to get it done rather than this all stuff and getting each an every part ramped!!

If a person is able to buy a bike for 1.3L then in 1-2 yrs he can spend 50k also. Money is something people arrange for dreams, We don't arrange dream with Money!![/QUOTE]

Bro, i meant no offence to your comments. And yes what you said is very true dreams come first . But bro, if you spend so much of money on mods - is it really worth paying. I think we shud keep it like a KISS - Keep it simple and safe. She is what she is- my original quote