well ,, that is your view and requirement.. why should i be bothered.. similarly people would do the same to my post if they didn't want to bicker like kids..

least bothered .. its because i dont give out diplomatic answers .. my comments are direct ..

So they are running worlds fourth biggest 2 wheeler company with crap engineers?
And you are an Einstein here?
I am having a feel that the Dukers are feeling cheated that the NS comes with the same engine and albeit a smoother one and with more mileage and better looks so venting out their frustation. Nothing wrong in it but some politeness has to be considered in the language. If you are head of a BMW or Aprilia R&D and call other companys engineers crap then its ok but otherwise its just a crap comment. Nothing else!!!

completely agree man... Why the hell do these people care about spark plugs? Jurt want a bike which runs.... And regarding the flame part i completely agree bro... I had a single spark flame and my friend had the twin spark model... There was a noticeable difference on performance and emmission... His bike being a lot older than mine still gave better performance, better mileage and a crisper throttle response in spite of the bad condition of his bike with no maintenance and my bike being a highly maintained one.... I still remember once we went for PUC check and when we got the reports.., his emission was much cleaner than mine...despite his bike being quite old and mine was my first puc after buying my bike.... Twin spark works...and its not a gimmick... And the triple spark is to reduce pollution...and the 200ns uses the smallest catalytic converter on any indian bike...much much smaller than duke...which uses the same engine that too with fi... And i was laughing while reading mountain's comment about crap engineers... So the same crap engineers once made the pulsar 220 dts-fi which didn't have any catalytic converter at all and passed the puc with flying colors... No offence here but if they really were crap then yamaha and honda should be having the crappiest engineers coz the r15 and cbr with fi and single plug needs to have cat con to pass emissions...now what do mountain have to say about this... And someone said that if twin spark is effective then why other manufacturers dont use it... Its because bajaj will sue them then and there... Bajaj sued tvs for using twin spark in flame and bajaj even tried to sue tvs once when they were trying to copy exhaustec for apache....but tvs quickly changed the design....

dude , royal enfield uses twin spark in thunderbird right ? ... few of the ferraris , maserati and alfas too used twin spark in their cars long back ie in 1970s ...even alfa romeo156 came with twinspark engine for some time..

AFAIK usage of twin or triple spark cannot be stopped or sued by any potential patent holders. " Only the way in which it is used / constructed "

First of all @Mountain is not a Duke owner. He is an experienced rider with some appreciable knowledge of motorcycles. I do agree that the word "CRAP" was too harsh. But not as bad as some people saying "Three spark plugs is a hoax and there is actually only one spark plug" indirectly calling them "CHEATS".

Secondly, Dukers are "NOT FEELING CHEATED." Duke goes into the premium bike segment and with all the features that we get, we are not at all sorry for shelling out those extra 35,000-40,000 bucks.

Duke is not a mass motorcycle.

Regarding the engine, NS sports an engine that's inspired by the Duke 200 but not even a mile close to what the Duke engine is capable of... Duke has a DOHC Fuel injected engine while the NS has an SOHC Carb engine..

Duke is an internationally designed product which is capable of doing lot of things which no other bike in that segment can do.

If you think that the engine is the same because of top speed of both the bikes hardly differ by 2-3kmph then let me tell you that with an after market ECU mod - the Duke can cross the 150kmph mark quite easily. There is a speed limit marked in the bike for a longer engine life.

*Sigh*

Both of you completely missed my point in your haste to put me down and defend engineers you don't know.

I said:

IF... Bajaj can't get an even burn in a combustion chamber with a smaller diameter than a shot glass without resorting to the ridiculous solution of three spark sources, especially in a low-compression combustion chamber where you won't have a convoluted piston crown to have to work around, I'm left with no conclusion other than they have crap engineers.

Note the IF - THEN clause there. My actual contention, if you read through my post again, is that the triple-plug design is a marketing gimmick meant to create some kind of distinguishing element to the otherwise-boring NS200.

Second, the "accelerating out of a corner" refers to how you corner on a motorcycle. You slow down going into the corner, complete the turn, then accelerate out. My point was that *all* bikes have to have low-end torque and horsepower up top because they use so much of their engine's RPM range just for normal everyday driving.

Third, if you note later in my post, I mention that Bajaj can just as easily accomplish "The end results are low emissions, good fuel economy and good driveability."with two plugs (as you helpfully point out from your manual quote). Three is overkill, especially (as I noted) in such a tiny engine.

Fourth, Bajaj DIDN'T get Platina, Sapphire, CT100 and other products right. They're hopelessly mired in 1980s-era design (or earlier). Their bikes are ridiculously obsolete and have some of the poorest build quality I've seen on Indian bikes. And even then, you (again) helpfully point out that those three bikes make more-than-adequate mileage with a single plug, thus proving my point that three plugs is ridiculous.

Fifth, WHO CARES if they're the fourth-biggest 2-wheeler company? The US company General Motors was the largest company *of any kind* in the world in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and at that time turned out some of the biggest piles of s#it in their company's history. Size means nothing. And while the jury's still out on their engineers, I am confident in saying they're running the 4th-biggest company with crap designers at least.

Regarding the triple-plug design's disadvantages, there are several. Three plugs means more complexity for the ignition system, which will be costlier to replace if it goes bad. Three plugs, particularly on such a tiny engine, means really tiny plugs, increasing the risk of a plug breaking during installation/removal, as well as requiring an unusual size of plug and removal tool, further increasing cost. Three plugs also means more maintenance, since all three plugs have to be correctly gapped, and checked, meaning longer time is required for maintenance.

Samarth asks: "Flame had 2 sparks once, and later it was replaced by a single spark. And then it lost some of its highway mileage... Why?"

There's no way to know unless you document and can account for all the other changes they made when they dropped that one plug. Going from two plugs to one at a minimum means a different head design. The intake and exhaust passages may be more inefficient, the combustion chamber could be less efficient, maybe they went for performance the next time around with higher compression, there are a multitude of factors that could just as easily account for a difference in mileage.

Lastly, as to calling Bajaj engineers crap. First, I should point out that I only made that IF - THEN statement, which I stand by. Even if I had called them crap, who are you to tell me who I can and can't call crap? Remember I was not brought up in this society, trained to defer to persons of alleged higher social "rank" than myself. If I feel someone deserves to be called out for poor decisions, I will. I'm sure NONE of you have *ever* criticized a Cricket umpire (that you didn't know personally) of making a bad decision .

Oh, and by the way, remember the Duke's engine is a KTM design, not Bajaj. KTM is being nice to them by allowing them to borrow some of KTM's tech. While the NS engine may be smoother, based on reports it lacks all the character and excitement of the Duke; Bajaj has essentially neutered it for their new "flagship". The NS styling goes back to my contention about Bajaj's designers. It is unimaginative and clumsy, and really looks no different from every other commuter bike posing as "performance" on Indian roads (witness the TVS Apache RTR, where the big "news" for this year's model is marker lights shaped like eyes, instead of spending that budget figuring out how to lose the 1970s-era dual rear shocks; and any bike that can't even reach 140km/h has no business calling themselves "scarily fast")


We now return you to your regularly-scheduled Duke ownership thread...

To come round this, I think Bajaj engineers need to come out with something like a diesel bike with no plugs..might satisfy people comparing shot glasses with combustion chambers and people nit picking about previously non-selling bikes and the number of plugs and all other stuff....
Whew...am amazed to see such a large amount of crap exchange for a product that seems to be doing well in the market. Again, no intentions to hurt anyone, but I feel the NS has been targeted by one and sundry ever since Bajaj announced the triple spark design. To each his own.

Coming back to the Duke forum, I recently got my Duke a new cover; the KTM Orange Cover. What I liked about the cover is that it really keeps out dust and water. It's light weight, easy to put on and take off, has two straps instead a regular single one.

My review points for the cover: 5 out of 5 (it suits my needs perfectly)

+1, Very well said.

ROFLMAO You arent joking, are you?

smoother engine at the expense of grunt & fun factor
mileage at the expense of initial punch & roll on
lastly looks are subjective ,

still feeling cheated and envy?
yes, we missed those 2 extra spark plugs .. Dukers ,do we have power parts for that ?

Enthusiastic..."I am HAVING a feeling" that you are overly enthusiastic about the real performance and design of your bike!!!

First of all I'd like to remind you that the "better" looks you think the P200NS has, is that of the Pulsar 135LS. Nothing has changed except the headlight. In fact sometimes people mistake the Pulsar 135LS for the P200NS until they see that it has an exhaust protruding out. That is the only distinguishing factor to a layman looking at the bike from afar.

The KTM 200 Duke on the other hand looks like nothing you've ever dreamt of before. It has mad road presence, and a radical design that is so out of the box that it trumps everything else.

Secondly, the pulsar 200NS engine feels smooth because the exhaust note can be barely heard,which you translate to roughness in the KTM engine because it has a rorty exhaust note and short gearing??? I don't think you know what you're talking about to be honest. The P200NS engine is a heavily neutered/handicapped version of the KTM 200 DUKE engine to satisfy the need of the "masses". They want a bike that's not too "loud", obviously a good mileage, and since looks are also important, something that is acceptable to all. The pulsar 200NS is the outcome. The pick up is great, but not exhilarating. The looks although are unimaginative at best. A lot more could have been done to improve it. I trust if you are smart you will not try to counter my reply because I'm just stating facts here having ridden both these bikes, and the truth hurts but it is the truth. And on a final note I think all the KTM owners are laughing at your comment. Yes. Laughing.

is your bike a pulsar ?

@mountain

Nice One

would the bar end of any bike will fit into KTM's ?

While on other hand, when it comes to comparing Duke 200 and Pulsar 200NS, both are totally different.

Truly speaking, KTM feels like a KTM - right out of Alpine terrains roaring into urban populace,hardcore, built to last doomsday,roaring in the face,but highly refined even after all these..............its European all the way.

And from whatever ride report and ownership feedback so far, Pulsar 200NS is very much a Bajaj- whose feel is like a toned down technology for more Indian practical considerations.

If KTM has to exist, Bajaj psychology of motorcycles should not be blended into KTM's.
While Bajaj can cut inhouse RD costs by using KTM engine bases.

Pulsar200NS and Duke 200 are two different bikes...................it begins with fuel-injection and carb, carries on with DOHC and SOHC, may conclude in kerb weight difference of both bikes.
Only these three factors are more than enough to create two very different vehicles even if they may pump exactly similar borexstroke cubic capacities.