Atleast i am glad to see that pulsar is now being compared with duke...earlier it was compared with apache, hunk, cbz etc... this alone shows that pulsars have improved... but i expected more improvements and A PROPER HANDLEBAR

Well, now that I don't have to worry about dragging the thread off-topic, I don't have to hold back.

1) Ok, probably true. But that would pretty much put the bikes in different categories.

2) If you want that, you can buy a scooter for half the cost of the NS, and get better mileage too.

3) The NS looks very similar to *every* other bike on the road here, so if the ordinary is ok for you, then the NS is your bike.

4) So far, most have reported the pillion to be better than the FZ, which I have sat on several times myself, and found adequate, so the Duke can't be that bad.

5) Which is why the many-times-champion Ducati superbikes use perimeter frames. Oh wait...

6) Again, why not go all the way and buy a scooter or a CT100? Then the spares will be cheaper yet. Spares aren't that cheap for the superbikes either.

7) Nonsense. FI bikes can be pushstarted just like a carb. The engine's alternator provides power to the injector as it spins. It might take a couple more pushes, but it works even on the big bikes.

8) Doubtful. Most reports of the Duke being peaky are the result of nearly-new bikes. Once the motor has been broken in, it'll be much smoother, and quite suitable to longer rides (Even my old GSXR was tolerable for a couple of hours before it would put my hands to sleep from the vibes).


And a quick note on Mr. Payeng's article. First, a lot of the article is based directly on Bajaj's own marketing stuff, so of course they're going to say it's the most innovating thing since sliced bread. Find some independent confirmation. Second, what isn't marketing is Mr. Payeng's own assumptions about the bike, based on no evidence at all. Sorry to put it bluntly, but there it is.


Lastly, one quick note on spares. Somewhere someone noted that the NS's silencer costs about 3000 to replace, where the Duke costs 9000, due to the Duke having an expensive catalytic converter, where the NS needs only a small converter. Unfortunately, the cost difference there is so great that I am forced to wonder if the parts are comparable. To my eye, that looks a lot more like the cost to replace the entire Duke exhaust from the engine on back, while the NS cost is for the silencer alone, excluding the exhaust pipe and catalytic converter. I would want to see confirmation that the replacement items encompass the same components. Additionally, the NS uses a painted mild-steel exhaust and silencer, where the Duke uses a full stainless system; that alone is going to cause a wide price differential, eclipsing any cost inequality due to the cat size.

+1. I don't mean to offend or speak bad [or even think bad about the P200NS. Its total VFM as of now]. And this is slightly OT. So just adding that even I felt Payeng bro's article a bit pro-Bajaj without ANY proper evidence. Nothing crucial regarding the Engine Head flow characteristics was mentioned. I don't wish to start a controversy. Cheers. Ride safe

Well, the spare parts cost is something anyone going to a Probiking SVC can confirm. Also, the exhaust unit used on the old flagship Pulsar i.e. the Pulsar 220, is also Stainless steel + Cat Con. The price can be seen in the same article. I don't think Bajaj will downgrade the new flagship to MS and still have the guts to advertise its water-wading capabilities.

The way I see it is, Bajaj have solved a problem (of clearing emissions) in the Russian (cheap, low tech) way instead of the American (expensive, high tech) way used on the Duke. Nothing wrong with doing that as long as both methods work.

Looks like you are going over the top, i've read all your posts and it seems you are hell bent on proving Pulsar is not the right choice for anyone who can afford Duke?

3. Looks like every other bike on the road, huh? when did you last saw the bike properly? Duke looks very different, edgy. I would certainly say Duke looks better. But P200NS looks like every other bike on the road?? then you certainly need to get your eyes checked.

4. Pillion better than FZ.. LOL man, FZ had the worst pillion seat ever, anything will be better than that. If you have a sister/mom, please ask them to be pillion on Duke and then on Pulsar. Come back here to report pillion comfort. And yeah, we are still in India and so people take their sister/mom as pillion on a sports bike too! Just because you felt comfortable doesn't mean the world will, you just don't represent all the people riding pillion in India.

6. If somebody is thinking of lesser maintenance with good performance, how is that a crime. Why didn't you buy a 1000cc bike? If one wants a low maintenance bike with good performance there is an option for them. Does that mean anybody who don't want to spend a lot on maintenance needs to buy a splendor? they want good performance too, if not 100% out and out fun.

About Payeng's article, Bajaj's marketing may be all that you said, but did you check exhaust cost assembly for P200NS/220 dts-i & Duke? P200NS exhaust assembly costs 3000 where as Duke 200 costs 9250! Isn't that a benefit of triple spark tech. Talk about this fact, not the marketing stuff. Why didn't superior tech FI couldn't result in smaller catcon, which would have reduced exhaust assembly cost. Bajaj wouldn't simply put an extra spark plug in that small engine unless it will have tangible benefits to the end user.

Perhaps you are forgetting the fact that Duke was always intended to be a premium product and hence had no problems in getting all the good bits such as USD suspension, FI, aluminum swing arm, where as Pulsar is always intended to be affordable performance product. If they put FI on P200NS, how can they price it at whatever price they did right now?

I don't know if its crime to use the term FE with these 'performance' bikes, but many reacting as if it is. For TS it may / may not be sufficient to have 30-32 avg, but your information will help him decide for sure.

Btw, I bet you won't buy a 'performance' bike if it gives 10kmpl average.

Without adding in a typical manner to this thread, I just feel that this is an official opportunity to anyone who wants to prove which one is better among NS and Duke And the fun part is, no one can object to the fight!!

I think the two bikes are incomparable. I'll justify it in the paragraphs below.

Mileage

How do you COMPUTE this ? I mean in what conditions ? Duke owners (due to the bike's nature) rip the bike like crazy. Under low RPMs, duke has the most pathetic sound anyway (no offence but it sounds like a rickshaw at 2k rpm) and sounds godly only when you keep revvs above 4k or better, 6k.

While Pulsar is refined, and encourages you to keep it smooth and silent, so I think it'll naturally be revved less. Though both will be taken to similar speeds on highways, in city Pulsar will be treated more gently.

So how can you compare 2 bikes that demand different operational styles thanks to opposite natures ?

Under similar riding conditions, there is enough data to suggest that the mileages are not too far apart. Somewhat like Unicorn Dazzler vs Unicorn Standard. Not too much difference.

FI vs Triple Spark

Isn't it obvious why FI is present and why Triple Spark is present ? FI is expensive, but then you can take the bike anywhere. Duke 200 is an international bike, now exported to Europe where it competes with CBR250R and Ninja 250R as well (indirectly) being in same price segment but different bike segment. And it'll soon be seen in Japan and the US. All places with different climatic conditions. FI would eliminate the need to retune the carb for different markets and once production is stabilized, the chakkan plant can be used for sending it anywhere and everywhere. Also remember, abroad cost of service and labor is high, so the bikes that are cheap in India are still much more expensive abroad. Kawasaki Eliminator 125cc costs around 3000$, while in India Avenger 220 is 1500$, half the price. So adding on to price for small tech fitments is nothing.

Triple Spark on the other hand is like this low priced alternative that almost works perfectly under given conditions. In India having to kick twice instead of once in a cold morning is not a big deal. And the carb's been tuned keeping in mind our subcontinental geography and climate, and considering its market there are not too many variations compared to tuning it for running in 198 countries in the world. By intelligently designing it cost of exhaust too has come down. Isn't this the most awesome thing ever ? This does not in any way make Triple Spark better than FI. But for practical purposes 95% of the time, for Indians, its equivalent. Good enough I guess. But put this in the exported Duke 200 and Bajaj will be in for a lot of trouble.

Duke's Goodies vs Pulsar's Practicality

Again this is identical to above point of FI vs 3S. Upside Down Front Forks don't add enough value for most average Indians compared to normal front forks to justify their higher price. But there are some who CAN use them. And in the International market, where everything is priced high anyway, the cost saved by removing USD forks is tiny. And the big fat tyres on the Duke are not needed for majority of the situations, hence Pulsar makes do with smaller tyres. But this does not mean that the fat tyres on the Duke are useless. They have their own target group.

Quality/Niggles/ASS

I believe this aspect is actually identical in both the bikes. There is no way Bajaj would want to let either an international bike or a flagship national bike have crazy quality problems and/or niggles. If they find any, they would be equally keen to remove it, regardless of which of the two bikes is the victim. Duke being more complicated technology gets KTM Showrooms offering a premium service. Pulsar's simpler insides ensure that its easily serviced by the Bajaj-showroom mechanics. As with all Bajaj bikes, initially expect a few niggles that would be sorted out by the next revision in both the bikes. Apart from this, there is nothing to compare between the two bikes. They are identical.

In the end...

It all boils down to what people want. Remember, Duke is 40% higher in price than Pulsar. But some people don't mind spending this 40% more because the increased equipment level HAS UTILITY or maybe its just the exclusiveness. For everyone else Pulsar is there. This does not make one bike better than the other. Because if one bike WAS better than the other, why would Bajaj sell both ? Its like saying why should Bajaj sell Discover 150 when there is Pulsar 150 already. Both the bikes cater to different people, and are equally important in the company's portfolio.

On a related note, I believe Bajaj is secretly encouraging people to fight Duke vs Pulsar wars. This only adds to the attention they are getting and will generate extra publicity. Its any company's dream for its only competition to be itself.

So people who cannot afford a personal helicopter will buy a car is it? Get a life and come to reality, the honest truth is a person who cannot afford a BMW will certainly buy a Santro or a lower priced car under his budget (Applies to purchase, running and maintenance cost)

Your clueless comment about FI vs Carb clearly shows your intention, Just goto Yamaha R15/ZMR thread and see how many ppl clean their FI or push start. Yes I agree the point with P220FI had niggling issues and thats why Bajaj rushed to remove it in the next edition. Duke has some heritage and dont even dream about the P220FI while talking about Duke's FI system. I hate people going way out of reality and start advocating in this fashion about their choice.

Perfect.

Its hard to digest this fact and hence the thread floods with flames.

What do you think is the secret behind launching 2 almost identical bikes?

The honest truth is to up-sell the cheaper P200NS keeping a costlier Duke on display, virtually both having identical features to a common man.
(Common man is a non-xbhpian who knows nothing about bikes and knows only to ride it. Unfortunately they form the majority at market place)

Nice sensible posts!

exactly .. i bought duke cuz i cant afford ninjas now .. thinking of an all-out superbike as an upgrade from my duke after about 3 years from now ..

This is the best thread in xbhp now fight as you will... its official

The best part of whole debate is that no body is denying that KTM is a better bike and VFM proposition here. But some how, some people just can't digest the fact that Pulsar 200NS can have some merits over Duke for some people atleast. Why? I'm curious!

and BTW this crappy little Indian company has part made the Duke 200. Go open you Dukes and see, how many component are shared between the KTM and Pulsar.

An all-out superbikes will kill all the mosquitoes (other commuter bikes)

Ok, Harish & Rohan, let me help you guys get your head straight on this one. If someone is asking should I buy a Ninja 250 or CBR250 for my purpose, then inherently it means that he can afford either of them. Now you guys can say buy Ninja coz you can afford it, the other one will say buy CBR250 coz it will serve your purpose 100% and on top of that you save about 1 lakh, hope you got it now!