Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

[MENTION=61712]ArnabC[/MENTION] : Na na, what I meant was, its no where mentioned in which category the ISI onea are ?
Btw the difference between ECE/DOT and ISI is "no result" discussion so I will avoid that.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Sorry I got your question wrong. Though a bit off-topic but I read in an article, Times of India as far as I remember, that Mumbai police were catching people who were wearing helmets certified by ECE/DOT. That happened a year or two back. People owning good bikes (read Fireblade/Harleys/R1 etc) were being caught and fined as the Indian law states that we, Indian riders, should use ISI certfied helmets. Anything else than that, though not mentioned by Indian law, were being stopped by police. That's when the article reoprted about those riders, who claim that these ECE/DOT certified helmets are actually better than the ISI certified ones. So maybe ECE/DOT certified helmets, of same price range, are better than ISI certified helmets.

trustvishwas sir: Could you please throw some light on this?

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Ok, the thread is progressing faster than anticipated, by the time i posted reply to vishwas...there were other queries as well

ISI stickered LS2 are fake...as simple as that...dont buy them.
Regarding embossing, i have given the suggestion to him, but he said it increases cost, hence sticked as i have already mentioned. Still he said that he will discuss with manufacturer and try.

Sure..will check in this g2g.

It is not about what rating it carries in india, the problem arises when the same model helmet is available with same rating in some other country for a much different price.

Yes safety is the prime concern behind all this exercise.

Standards are same everywhere...only thing is which standard certified helmet is sold in which country.

There is no ISI certified LS2 helmet, bro.

And yes ECE, DOT, SNELL, SHARP and ISI are different ..everyone acknowledge that.





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Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Thanks a lot...now we know how to check the authenticity of this helmet, the most loved one by the two wheeler enthusiasts...good job buddy !!! And one silly question...the traffic police in India knows only ISI mark and can they harrase us if we were helmet with ECE mark?

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

I know they are fake and market is also flooded with cheap LS2 (might be the Chineese one) with ECE stickers.

Like this ECE sticker, we could find ISI stickered helmets too
Reference pics : Pic 1, Pic 2

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Very interesting discussions,
Thanks for bringing this up.

Agreed, SHARP purchases off-the-shelf helmets and conducts tests on them. I'll just share the link to the FF351. Any helmet that adheres to a particular standard has to meet that standard worldwide, there can't be a different standard.

Standards cannot be different for a country. They are meant for a particular region, i.e Snell M2010, DOT, ECE etc. However, any helmet sold in that region has to pass those tests. Therefore a DOT marked helmet in our country has to meet the DOT certification worldwide. We don't have softer heads

What about the VEGA embossed ISI LS2's? Vega manufactured them for LS2, that's a known fact. I don't know what caused the split, but you can see Vega copying most of LS2 designs in their Axor series nowadays.

Sol here, GMAX there in the US have DOT embossed, yet we get Sol at a lower price point than the US market, so that cost argument doesn't hold water.
Again, Vega manufactured ISI marked LS2 helmets here.

Now, to add to this discussion, I'd like to bring to the attention of our members about earlier efforts by various members to bring awareness about LS2.


You can see they (LS2 Guys) mentioned about the weight and the SHARP rating in the conversation.
@Sunnyside_up! posted here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/universa...tml#post986052 about the SHARP rating

LS2 then replies to @lasky


They also mentioned that the weight difference in the helmet was due to the visor and liner change!
Conclusion :


Keep in mind that the FF351 was NOT tested by SHARP at the time, now it is, apparently.
Take a look at the rating off the shelf. SHARP Helmets - LS2 FF351 . One star.

I've also mentioned here earlier, that the LS2's I see here nowadays are very flimsy looking, and even the shell finish is uneven. However, voices are drowned out in the clamour for LS2.
It's up to an individual to do their research, all the information is out there. It's their head after all. If you blindly trust in a brand so much, you should be aware it's your head you're risking. Frankly, the company doesn't seem to have their act together, with such conflicting replies from all fronts.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Yes traffic police can fine you coz your helmet is not ISI mark. And it is not harrassment. They are merely following indian laws.

Thanks for the pics, i could only view 1st pic on mobile and apart from ECE and ISI mark i could also see vega written there, so obviously it is an old helmet when it used to be sold by vega in india, and maybe vega had applied for and got ISI certification for the LS2 models sold by them at that time.

If it is a new helmet, it is obviously fake because currently LS2 has no association with vega.



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Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

[MENTION=52772]AK3D[/MENTION]: thanks for discussing it actively.

Nobody said that DOT or any other standard should vary country wise. What was mentioned was that LS2 helmets for different countries have different certifications according to market condition .... Like in india the prefered certification by LS2 is ECE whereas in western countries it is DOT and/or SHARP. Thats is the reason for major price difference and also company is free to charge whatever profit margin it thinks is correct for a particular market.

Regarding vega, what i said was assuming it is a brand new helmet. If its an old helmet then yes there were old LS2 helmets by vega which had ISI certification.

Regarding the FF350 vs FF351 debate...that you mentioned, i am not able to access that conversation on mobile...will check it later and get back.

Yes the safety is the most important thing.

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Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Wow. This is some serious info bro. Appreciate your effort.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??


Indian law does not recognise DOT/ECE certification. So unless the manufacturer actually bothers to obtain ISI certification, these helmets are illegal. This is the reason why Vega Axor range carries both ISI and DOT certification marks.

We from Pune xBhp conducted a small experient yesterday. The helmets of different models are carrying a ECER22-05 certification and identical weight. However, on actual weighing, we found that the helmets are between 1700-1800 grams in weight and not 1250-1350 grams as mentioned.



The ECE standard specifies which type or configuration of helmet the approval applies to, using the following codes: “J” if the helmet does not have a lower face cover, “P” if the helmet has a protective lower face cover, or “NP” if the helmet has a non-protective lower face cover, (stated as ECE 22.05J, ECE 22.05P or ECE 22.05NP). Motorcycle Helmet Standards Explained: DOT, ECE 22.05 & Snell. However, the sticker does not mentioned either J/P/NP.

It was also observed that one helmet purchased couple of months back from Laxmi Automobiles carries a sticker of Sharp rating.

If a helmet carries that sticker, it must be adhering to that standard. Then the whole explanation of different quality helmets for different regions seems hollow.

Now we intend to weight different company helmets on one scale to judge how they actually weigh vis-a-vis their claimed weight.


Actual ECER Regulations -



INFORMATION FOR WEARERS

14.1. Every protective helmet placed on the market shall bear a clearly
visible label with the following inscription in the national
language, or at least one of the national languages of the
country of destination.

This information shall contain:

"For adequate protection, this helmet must fit closely and be
securely attached. Any helmet that has sustained a violent
impact should be replaced"

and, if fitted with a non protective lower face cover:

"Does not protect chin from impacts" together with the symbol
indicating the unsuitability of the lower face cover to offer any
protection against impacts to the chin.

14.2. Additionally where hydrocarbons, cleaning fluids, paints,
transfers or other extraneous additions affect the shell material
adversely a separate and specific warning shall be emphasized in
the above-mentioned label and worded as follows:

"'Warning' - Do not apply paint, stickers, petrol or other
solvents to this helmet".

14.3. Every protective helmet shall be clearly marked with its size and
its maximum weight, to the nearest 50 grammes, as placed on the
market. The maximum weight quoted should include all the
accessories that are supplied with the helmets, within the
packaging, as it is placed on the market, whether or not those
accessories have actually been fitted to the helmet.

14.4. Every protective helmet offered for sale shall bear a label
showing the type or types of visor that have been approved at the
manufacturer's request.

14.5. Every visor offered for sale shall bear a label showing the types
of protective helmet for which it has been approved.

14.6. Every visor placed on the market with a protective helmet shall
be accompanied by information in the national language, or in at
least one of the national languages, of the country of
destination. This information shall contain:

14.6.1. General instruction for storage and care.

14.6.2. Specific instructions for cleaning and their notice of use. These
instructions shall include a warning regarding the dangers of
using unsuitable agents for cleaning (such as solvents),
especially if abrasion resistant coatings are to be preserved.

14.6.3. Advice as to the suitability of the visor for use in conditions
of poor visibility and during the hours of darkness. The
following warning shall be included:

14.6.3.1. Visors with the marking indicating "daytime use only" are not
suitable for use during the hours of darkness or in conditions of
poor visibility.



14.6.4. If appropriate, the following warning shall also be included:

14.6.4.1. The fastening of this visor is such that it will not be possible
to remove it instantly from the line of sight with one hand
should an emergency (such as headlamp glare or misting) occur.

14.6.5. If the visor is MIST RETARDANT approved it may be indicated.

14.6.6. Instructions regarding the detection of obsolescence.

14.7. Every visor placed on the market as a separate technical unit
shall be accompanied by information in the national language, or
in at least one of the national languages, of the country of
destination. This information shall contain advice on the
protective helmets for which the visor is suitable and
information on those aspects specified in paragraphs 14.6.1.
to 14.6.6. where such information is different to that which
accompanied the visor that was placed on the market with the
protective helmets for which the visor is stated to be suitable.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Adding to this bold part, if its DOT certified, that means it has been tested according to there standards!! Whereas Vega that is in India (VEGA HELMETS | Vega Helmet Online | Vega Helmet Price | Online Helmets | Helmets India | Helmets Online India) is under the name of some Ashish Bhandari from Belgaum and Vega that is outside India (VegaHelmet - Home) belongs to Yuping Chen for Soaring Helmet Corp and obviously both of these two are different companies.

Now coming to Vega who is selling with DOT stickers : DOT is helmet standard for US. I never knew Vega is being sold and tested in US. Is Vega India kidding with us?


I do appreciate Prince's effort, but some how I am also not convinced with what Laxmi Automobile's explanation on stickers, weight, Vega association etc.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??


Vega India is a legitimate helmet manufacturer. This is different than the company present outside. Both have similar name but different logo. Vega helmets India has a manufacturing plant at Belgaum. Their 3 product lines viz. Axor, Boolean and one off road kind (Don't remember name) are DOT certified. Other products of the same company are not DOT certified.

I also spoke with Studds. They manufacture DOT certified helmets but do not sale them in India. If one is willing to place a bulk order, they can sale these DOT certified helmets directly to him.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

@trustvishwas : Yeah I do agree that they have DOT written, but what I want to know is that do they sell these in US ? Or is it just a marketing gimmick to lure Indian customers by adding DOT alongside ISI?
Because afaik to get a Certification it needs to pass that test. Have Vega India and Studds India did that?

And if they sell , it should be somewhere mentioned, but could not find any reference.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

DOT is self certification. NHTSA does not test helmets against the DOT standards before they can claim DOT certification; rather, each helmet manufacturer marketing their helmets for road use in the U.S. must test and self-certify the models they want to sell and then permanently affix the “DOT” emblem signifying compliance with FMVSS 218. NHTSA enforces the standard by acquiring random samples of the product and sending them to an independent testing lab to verify compliance.

Re: LS2 Helmets India - Genuine or Fake ..??

Firstly, a thumbs-up to Prince for the effort.

[MENTION=6917]vishwas[/MENTION] - I had pointed out this disparity over a year ago and had even written a letter to SHARP and gotten a reply, which I posted on the forum.


In that mail they had clearly mentioned that they had never even tested the FF351, which is the most popular model sold in India, while one the other hand the company claimed and sold it as 4-Star rated. Since last year, this model has actually been tested by SHARP and been awarded 1-Star, the lowest rating possible. Yet as you have pointed out, the distributor himself continues to sell the helmet with the 4-Star rating sticker on it. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.


Now some other issues.


1. Embossing the certification costs more. FALSE. The certification on a helmet is applied the same way the graphics are done. There cannot be an extra cost.
2. Prices cannot be standardised. FALSE. All genuine imported goods sold through authorised distribution must have standard costs and MRP as per law. Why is there no printed price list anywhere for this brand?
3. Western countries have higher standards. FALSE. The ECE/DOT standard if truly applied will ensure similar construction quality throughout the world.
4. International standards are illegal in India. FALSE . If it were, helmets would be a restricted item like tyres and would not be allowed to be imported. The police forces of different towns, cities and states take different views on this because there is no real clarity as to how to ensure the public uses at least a minimum standard product. Hence the simplest way would be to enforce the ISImark. Expecting a beat constable or even an inspector to understand international certifications are a stretch of the imagination, which is why we sometimes face harassment, though I have never personally faced it.


Now on a different note and being associated with the industry, I can shed some light on how the fakes/low end specs enter the market. Genuine ECE/DOT LS2 are really good quality products. I had one myself which I picked up about 5 years ago in Germany (ECE rated) near the famous Nurburgring race-track and I can testify to its build quality. Now unfortunately, LS2 does make lower spec helmets for the third world market which does not insist on regulations/certifications. The ones that go to the EU or North America are properly labelled, as per law. The helmets made for the third world market does not get embossed/laminated certification, since if by some fluke one of these helmets found their way to the US/EU and was picked up for testing, it would fail, and the company would be liable for hefty penalties, legal action and/or black-listed. Hence if the helmet merely had a sticker, it could be argued that it was a fake and therefore not a company product. In such a case, the authorities would find it difficult to pin liability on the company. This unfortunately is a common trade practice even with other brands, due to varying market conditions and conflicting laws of the origin and destination country. It also unfortunately helps the fakers.


The best way to identify a properly certified helmet is therefore with a laminated/embossed certification label and purchased only through the company authorised distribution channel. Another important thing to ascertain is if the company is actually present through an authorised distributor or not. If there is no authorised sales channel, the legitimacy of the product is highly unlikely. For example, who is bringing in Sparx?