I dont know which manufacturer you are talking about.. But, Pharmaceutical grade Absolute Ethanol (99.9% pure) Imported from Merck Germany Costs 650 INR / Litre.
The other non pharma grades will come very cheap.

How do I know? I am a Pharmaceutical Research Scientist and wetting hands daily with these solvents.

I'm sorry, if i'm wrong... As far as i know, octane rating, is the rating of anti-knocking properties of gasoline engine fuel. This is what i'm being taught in mechanical.....

• ^rd that of petrol -->>

Heat of combustion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
With only 2/3 the energy of gasoline, ethanol costs more per mile
Ethanol as a Transportation Fuel
Fuels - Higher Calorific Values
Calorific values of solid, liquid and gaseous fuels 3.11.4

Replies is color.

see reducing pollution is good, but the point is govt. is not saying that it is mixing ethanol for environment. govt. is giving different reasons.

and all environment saving methods must come at a cheaper cost or cheaper running cost. otherwise nobody will accept it. like for example it took many years and many subsidies for people to accept the solar water heaters, solar PV systems, wind energy is still costly than conventional electricity, so will take some more years. nobody wants to save environment by spending out of his own pocket. and CNG case is different, CNG is optional, plz understand it OPTIONAL is a big word, purchase it if you want it otherwise don't.

again i do not want to say again and again, benefit is to only oil companies and sugar industries. no benefit to common man.

dirt comes out of exhaust-- buddy its not a good way to burn a fuel with dissolved impurities, which can be rubber/plastic/metal/rust anything.

ok tell me this, if i use 10w30 instead of my regular 10w40 what is the increase in mileage of my P150.

and regarding that 1% drop in mileage, in this time when petrol prices are reaching the sky, when every person wants more mileage and vehicle manufacturing companies are struggling to find ways to increase mileage, why should i loose 1% mileage, when i know, that in future i have to loose much more.

ethanol blended fuel absorb moisture and clean the fuel system....what have you been reading lately, bro, try this, every time you fill petrol, add 1 teaspoon of water in fuel tank, and your fuel system will be clean. LOL

imagine this, your bike produces 25 bhp now, tommorrow with ethanol blended fuel it will produce 24 bhp, one year later 22 bhp, 5 years later when ethanol % will be 85, your bike will produce, say 16 bhp, so what should i do, purchase new one forcibly even if i dont want, or i dont have money???

new technologies should be implemented only when they are compatible with the outgoing system, for a smooth transition.

and yes this time is a color of your choice- red/brown etc.

your point is evnironment, and my point is i am not ready to save environment by spending more out of my own pocket, when i already have less money to take care of other things in life, and at the cost of mileage, power, and vehicle life.

Well, I was reading through a fishing forum where people were discussing the effects of E10 gasoline on their boats and cars and bikes.

A couple of posts suggest that the FE drops by as much as 15% if you use E10 gasoline compared to E0 gasoline. Cars racing the US specific NASCAR and Indy500 which exclusively use E85 gasoline use up 30% extra fuel as compared to E0 to produce the exact same power.

Which means, a car/boat/bike will run 'x' distance in 1 liter of E10 (900ml Petrol, 100ml Ethanol) while the same car/bike/boat will run the same 'x' distance in 850ml of Pure Petrol.

Now the question which comes to my mind is, if they are doing all this only to save on the crude import bill, why not just chuck the 100ml of Ethanol altogether and give me 900ml of pure Petrol instead.
Benefits as I see them are (ones marked with are jokes):
1. After all, a car/boat/bike will go further in 900ml of pure Petrol as compared to 850ml so its more 'economy friendly'.
2. There is no need to waste food (corn / sugar) to make stuff you don't need. Food prices don't go up unnecessarily, making this more 'people friendly'.
3. There is no need to carry around extra weight of the Ethanol which isn't giving you anything extra.. this gives you better tank range AND Power to weight ratio making it 'Enthusiast friendly'.
4. Our existing equipment will keep on working as is without any additional ethanol related issues, making this more 'Maintenance friendly'.

Of course, the govt. could argue that GDP increase will happen and chemical industry will get an impetus giving people more jobs in factories making ethanol. This will give people the money that would have otherwise gone to OPEC. But the moot point remains that E10 is useless in its mission of saving anything from going to OPEC.

@Muztariq: A modern car engine is engineered and designed to give you reliable service for at least 2.5-3 lac km without requiring a new one with just periodic maintenance. Whether the rest of the car lasts that long is another matter altogether. But that's not what this forum is for (I mean 4 wheelers) so it would be better if we kept our discussions to 2 wheels and not wander onto WagonRs and Altos. As someone who works in the chemical field, the least I expect of you is a balanced chemical equation.

@ prince - See, I understand your point of view. The benefit is largely of the ethanol producing firms. But it is not planned.. it is mere co incidence. Way back when tighter lead control limits were imposed, the benefit went directly to manufacturers of good catalytic convertors.. It is just their luck.

In envt conservation small steps bring big results.. Its the stats only. if you run 10w30 oil in your pulsar in place of 10w40 you would get 2-3% increment in fuel efficiency. Dont start using it. You will have to design your engine and your oil to do that. Honda did it by designing its engine and also re-designing its oil so that its old vehicles can also make a shift from the recommended 20w40 to new 10w30 shift.

Ever heard of Blackle.com !? its was said in 2007 that if the Google background becomes black it would save 750 Megawatt hours per year.. Wow, that's the impact of small steps on envt. - pure statistics.

Regarding engine running cleaner with water in tank - Water is an excellent solvent having capability to dissolve bot polar and non polar compounds.. It is also used in engine decarbonizing. Small amounts of water does dissolve the impurities which petrol fails to do. I use STP fuel injector/carb cleaner after every tank full. You would be surprised to know that it contains 95% kerosene.

Regarding color of post.. If I am making specific replies to your points, I will have to use a different color or bold. Personally I prefer different color for long replies and bold for yes-no type close ended queries.

@antz. -

1. After all, a car/boat/bike will go further in 900ml of pure Petrol as compared to 850ml so its more 'economy friendly'.

No. Consider a vehicle with 40km/l mileage. In 900 ml it will run 36 km. Consider the same vehicle using 10% EtOH. In 1000 ml (900ml Petrol and 100 ml etoh) it will run 38.8 km. (2-3% drop in mileage).

Why is air mixed with petrol in modern engines. Air is not combustible and have no calorific value. You dilute the fuel in the combustion chamber with air so that less amount is burned and make it more efficient. Now consider prediluting the fuel with xyz substance.

Regarding discussing cars etc here - It is a discussion on fuel and if we discuss CNG the discussion would be incomplete if i dont bring in the benefits/demerits it is having on the vehicles it is used on. If we start discussing aviation fuel - Airbus and Boeing will make their way in here.

Though we have discussed it quite exhaustively.. and I have given my reasons of not supporting the cause. Everyone is free to make his/her conscious decision on the subject. Over the years of my researching career, I have found that U.S, U.K, Japan and other developed countries does things with lot of intelligence and research and we ape them in every step they take. What they do in 1800 we do in 1900. They provide the guidelines and we follow them. We also use engines but they tell us which one to buy. SAE, API, JASO all are from there. We are followers. But with the advancement of technology this information flow is getting faster. What they do in 2000 we ape it in 2010 now!! In India not much debate would have happened on this 5% EtOH blend.. They did it. Lets copy it.

On the lighter front. Petrol addicts(who drink petrol) would be getting a prominent high this december onwards!!

So you* /govt. are saying that ethanol is eco friendly huh? Read these.. Ethanol Pollution Surprise - CBS News Scientist: Ethanol Would Cause More Pollution Than Gasoline | Fox News Study Says Ethanol Pollution Could Rival Gas : NPR . One can also Google for similar results..

Two points I'd like to make before proceeding further:

First, the thing about 1000ml E10 petrol being equivalent to 850ml E0 petrol is true only for engines not designed with gasohol fuel in mind - true for most older design vehicles. Fuel efficiency drops yes, but 1000ml E10 should be closer to 960ml of E0 in vehicles which are made with E10 in mind.

Second, ethanol really IS cheaper to produce on a large scale than petrol. The reason its so expensive for lab use is simply that - its sold for lab use.

Now let me try and examine the issue in a better way. In Karnataka, I've frequently come across stories of sugar farmers being harassed by distilleries who pay very less whenever a good harvest happens and this has lead to farmers destroying some of their produce to help get more profits - a wastage of resources that went into farming in the first place. I see ethanol usage as automobile fuel helping these farmers a lot - this will increase their enthusiasm for sugarcane farming and they'll end up prospering as well. Farming is resource intensive, and sugarcane farming takes a lot of water, but this can be sustainable. This would take time though, because in the long run we need to put in place a good canal system in the country that redirects water from rivers in severe flood affected areas to those in drought affected areas. All this cannot happen by this year end and would definitely take a decade or two, but that is what long term planning is about. 5% ethanol in petrol has negligible effect on mileage, and right now fuel prices may not even change. But fuel prices only ever goes upwards and rupee value constantly depreciates. A few more years later, INR to USD rate may be Rs. 60. By that time petrol in its current form may hit Rs. 100 a litre. Ethanol helps then. E5 also acts as a wake-up call to manufacturers to seriously consider making vehicles capable of running on flexi-fuel in India and also vehicles that are more capable of accepting ethanol in the form its available in India. India could be the next Brazil then, adopting FF tech completely. Again, taking about flexi fuel in India today is rubbish - but switching to E5 is a start. Who knows, maybe auto expo 2014 could see FF cars atleast showcased as a concept!

As a closing remark, after all that has been stated, forcing E5 onto people IS a bad thing if they're left with no choice. Even if the "choice" ends up being much more expensive, there SHOULD be a choice. Oil companies haven't stopped selling 2T oil after the 2-stroke ban have they ?

Is this government only for helping oil companies?:P Wat eva hapens sugar farmers will be the last to get any benefit if any; yes they may be still on list! Whether its a 2% drop or 10% drop, time will prove; but not gonna help for sure.

btw 2 strokes are not banned in the country. Their production just stopped. Sure, you can see them onroad!

Once petrol hits 100 per litre then am sure many many people would go for ethanol blended fuel if it were optional as it would be cheaper. Cause for a common man, operating expenses is more important than vehicle maintenance.. And we see this every day.. And as pure-petrol buyers would decrease in number, bunks would stop selling them eventually and maybe that's why the govt has decided to make ethanol blended fuel compulsory.

Pure Ethanol has an octane rating high enough to warrant a compression ratio as high as 17:1. To really take advantage of ethanol in petrol, you need higher compression engines than the ones available on bikes in India. Gasoline Direct Injection technology was partially developed to use this high octane rating to their benefit.

A Unicorn/Hunk/Xtreme/Splendor/Passion/Dazzler have a compression ratio of 9.1:1, Pulsar 150/180/FZ16/Discover/RTR160/RTR180 is 9.5:1. Karizma, ZMR have even lower compression ratios. Bikes similar to those listed here make up 90%+ of the bikes sold in the country. All these bikes are designed to run well on low octane E0 petrol. Most of these bikes will have 15-20% lower FE on E10 compared to E0 because they are just not optimised for it. Believe it or not but most bikes in India ARE LOW TECH bikes incapable of taking advantage of a higher octane rating.

The only mainstream bikes with compression ratios higher than 10 being sold in the country today are Yamaha R15, CBR150R, CBR250R, Duke 200 and *maybe* Pulsar 200NS. These *high-end* bikes are the only ones which will have comparatively lower reduction in FE and Power when using Ethanol blended higher octane fuels.


Dr.MMS has set a price of Rs.27/liter for Ethanol. Considering E0 costs Rs.75/liter now, E5 should cost Rs.72.6/- (-3.2%), Rs.70.2/- (-6.4%) for E10. Not a big enough reduction for us to tolerate what I mentioned above.

I was thinking...Here i see all are trying to prove their point right or explaination with an essay writting. But what I am confused off is, Will government read our discussion here ?? Will they ever think what we are asking for ??

This is only getting to our nerves which may lead to fight in future posts!! So guys CHill!! and enjoy the birth right in INdia that what ever government decides we have to take it, even if our bikes get burned into charcoal from inside!!

We lack Bhagat Singh and Mr Bose!!! But surely if they would have been still alive then too no one from modern India would had help them or joined them!! How many peope went to support Anna ?? out of crores ??

Waiting for 2014 eagerly to kick out this Government..

Well, the only way to do it right is to lodge a PIL in the Supreme Court of India. All discussions on a forum like this are futile to the actual purpose but might serve as a good research material for someone pursuing such a PIL.