what is PIL ? AFA knowledge is concerned , Yes a bit, but more of a quarrel in between good members !!

PIL stands for Public Interest Litigation. Here, read away: Public-interest litigation (India) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

actually i am seriously thinking about PIL.

this might be one of those threads where people are doing some research & commenting..... doing further googling & commenting..... most of them are talking about the cost benefit, & yes the initial price of petrol might come down, marginally..... but at what cost..... environment friendly vehicle, less pollution & all big words..... if we think so much of environment, then why not shift to electrical vehicle..... let Govt make a rule & we all shift to electric vehicles..... no pollution, at least from the vehicles, at all..... even people doing research are commenting, & no offense meant, IMHO they are not providing a good picture where simple riders like us can understand about merits or demerits of the ethanol in petrol.....
few things need to be clarified --
1) as already mentioned by abhimanyu31 sugarcane is very resource demanding crop, especially water..... how are we assuming that it'll not create water problem.....
2) ground water level is already at red level in many states & with the rise in demand of sugarcane farmers will start cultivating more of sugarcane..... thus exploiting water, which is already an issue in India.....
3) with rise in demand from ethanol industry, we may see rise in sugar, jaggery, & alchohol..... maybe ministers don't have to bother about these also.....
4) isn't there any other resource or way we can use.....

also, there were comments like - developed countries do something in 1800 & we follow in 1900..... but does that mean, anything they do is correct..... if that would have been correct, then their bikes might have given better mileage than our Indian bikes..... they might have been number 1 in sales & not our own Hero..... we may use their technology, but we customize it to our own way & we achieve better results.....

how ethanol is really helpful & environment friendly..... can ethanol be extracted from some other crops, which are not so resource demanding..... is there any chemical way of preparing any other substance which might be better than ethanol.....

I don't care regarding the maintenance of vehicle..... I take my Rampyari for regular maintenance & will not mind if I have to take her frequently.....

I don't want Alcohol prices to go up more because of this issue since it's already quite high in my city...

You do need to realize that shifting to electric vehicles isnt a viable option...as u think...electric vehicles do seem pollution free but arent as claimed...do u know what amount of energy goes into producing electricity? (we already have a big coal scam going on..we dont want coal prices to increase and further burden our electricity bills)
if there s water shortage there is also a shortage of natural resources to generate electricity and according to me if certain methods are implemented..we can make use of sea water to purify it into fresh water and use for irrigation...


instead of debating...what i would suggest is let these kinds of topics be discussed by experts who have the know how of how stuff works..

what we can do on our part is as mentioned file a PIL

and the least you could do is find out if your vehicle is ready to accept E5 fuel....by contacting the vehicle manufacturer...and if it is not what can be the method applied to make it ready for running on gasohol....

a broader perspective that can be seen is ethanol is a renewable fuel...that is it can be made...bu we have limited petroleum...may be reducing petroleum content by 5% we can extend the time limit till when our petroleum reserves last....

yes our vehicles will be at the receiving end but we do not care about the environment too when we ride on our bikes and the pollution caused....even the introduction of unleaded petrol we were at receiving end because lead is excellent as scavengers in petrol but now we cannot use lead because of environment concerns and the bike costs have gone up as nowadays we need a bigger catcon unit.....

i have seen honda manuals allowing use of alcohol petrol as long as octane rating is satisfied....i am sure most of the vehicles can tolerate...if u are not sure CONTACT VEHICLE MANUFACTURER...if u have a vintage vehicle...show your love to it by buying petrol and removing alcohol from it as shown in youtube videos...

Ethanol can also be made from waste products like farm waste they should try that then it will become a better idea.
Right now it is still better than fossil fuels.

this might be one of those threads where people are doing some research & commenting..... doing further googling & commenting.....
Isnt it the way we learn. You search something, share the knowledge.. I search something share the knowledge. 5% Ethanol is knew to India. Going by your strategy.. one must get a PhD from a reputed unversity and then speak.. by that time he speaks.. Ethanol will be replaced with Propanol. Restraint yourself from making such comments.


also, there were comments like - developed countries do something in 1800 & we follow in 1900..... but does that mean, anything they do is correct..... if that would have been correct, then their bikes might have given better mileage than our Indian bikes..... they might have been number 1 in sales & not our own Hero..... we may use their technology, but we customize it to our own way & we achieve better results.....

You may love to call Indian Bikes as bikes.. but they are nothing more than a bicycle with engine.. They have a bicycle and motorcycle separate. We love to combine both. Neither we get the benefit of physical exercise nor the enjoyment of motorcycling. Number 1 in sales - Yes. But number one in consuming medicines.. number 1 in many more things.. Cheaper technology - Where!? When was the last time you heard anyone coming from US not being bombarded with requests of bringing laptops, cameras and other stuff? and iPhone unlocked from US and an iPhone here is a huge comparison!

What is so rocket science behind sugar produce?? Cuba/Pakistan are one of the big sugar producers.. What are their sizes in comparison to India?? Why cant India produce more sugar/ethanol with ease.. Let the demand come.

Not everyone knows everything.. this info is straight from google.. I am not a professor in Agriculture. If anyone has problem its his problem not mine.

Like I said before, this whole thing has become a monster wherein people are not even willing to question the validity of the claims being made. Someone here said that it is the fuel of the future. Another is saying its better than fossil fuels. Both these claims/ beliefs are based on what data?

Energy production needs to be considered not in isolation of final stage of creation, but in its entirety of the production chains and the energy required to create the fuel. The reason why there is so much of criticism about the renewable fuel concept such as Ethanol is due to the fact that the so called 'green' alternative merely replaces one set of environmental problems with another. The 'cost' of soil acidification, water table pollution due to fertilizer run off, energy (kerosene/ diesel/ electricity) required for irrigation, energy (gas/ electricity) required for production of fertilizer, etc, etc, are considerations that need to be taken into account.

Someone over here was going gaga over Barzil's use of biofuel. The actual cost of Barzil's relentless pursuit of Ethanol as a fuel is rapid deforestation, displacement of indigenous people from their livelihoods and creation of new class of poor and underprivileged people. Here are some very interesting views of the World Bank chief on the use of Ethanol in cars World Bank chief: Ethanol cars run on human misery • The Register

For people who think Biofuel can be a replacement for fossil fuels here are 2 very interesting reports.
US scientists puncture the ethanol biofuel bubble • The Register

IPCC report: Renewables can never meet energy demand • The Register

The bottom line is that we have not yet found a source of energy (except nuclear energy) that can be produced cost effectively and more efficiently than fossil fuels.

The official US govt site for all ethanol queries is here..

USA.gov: Energy Sources: Ethanol

I dont know more than US Department of Energy.. for every theory.. there is an opposition!! At present 5%EtOH fuel to 85% EtOH is reality.

United States government's official stand of Global Warming is "its not proven and its just a theory". It also opposes any limits to greenhouse gas emissions (remember Kyoto agreement). So tell me, do you prescribe to their official stand and view? I would any day take the word of independent researchers/ scientists and their work. These studies and basic research are being carried out at reputed universities and scientific organizations. Their work is not 'theory', it is based on solid data enumeration and study.

Agreed that 5% to 85% Ethanol is a reality. But you are not answering the fundamental question, what is the actual 'cost' of this so called eco friendly, greenhouse gas reducing fuel (claimed)? Also can it really replace all the fossil fuel the world is consuming? What will it take to produce that much ethanol and what will be its 'cost'? These are valid questions and the answers need to be considered by us as a country before blindly following in the foot steps of what the western world has adapted.

I think if Brazil can do it why not us? If this catches on then India will be on the other side of the equation and instead of buying fossil fuel we will be one of the largest exporters of Ethanol Fuel.

Green Car Congress: Automakers in Brazil Hit 10M Flex-Fuel Vehicle Mark; Brazilian Sugarcane Association Urges Global Dissemination

Brazilian Transportation Fleet — SugarCane.org

Latin America Brazil

Ethanol fuel in Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ethanol to take over 75 pct Brazil car fuel market | Reuters

History of ethanol fuel in Brazil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^ to get the benefits of ethanol, you need to have a vehicle designed for it, brazil has flexi-fuel vehicles, do we have flexi-fuel vehicles in india..??

and i do not know how you intend india to be an exporter of ethanol, are we self sufficient in every food related crop production...?? where will the land come from for this massive production of ethanol, in all probability if we do manage to produce and export ethanol, we have to import other food related items, which do not import right now. so where is the cost benefit..?? or strategic benefit..??

i do not know which bike you have, but very soon your bike will start producing lesser power, lesser mileage, and more maintenance due to ethanol blended fuel.

if india can have corrupt politicians so can US or Brazil. Think rationally.

Re: 5% Ethanol to be mixed in petrol from December

A very interesting thread which am bumping up with some new recent findings by the US.

Ethanol mixed in petrol not just damages engines, but also causes more pollution.

I have seen many fuel pumps with a sticker stating that it is selling a mixture of 10% ethanol. So what we are getting is E10.

For the full article - EPA Admits Ethanol Damages Engines

Re: 5% Ethanol to be mixed in petrol from December

yes, read about it yesterday. many car manufactures do not honour warranty if the ethenol percentage is above a certain limit.