IMO... thats not the case da
the thing is do we have parts for DIY?
every damn quality thing we need is unavailable here ??
things have to be imported and even if done so.... costs a bomb
thanks to custom duty and shipping
not all can bear expenses .... specially not amateur tuners or learners
ofcourse most dont belong to rich class

not many people have the courage to bear the expenses of DIY
its a difficult job ...... if you succeed ... its awesome and even you can make a fortune from your investment and if you fail.... still you had done a investment which went in vain....... it requires courage and confidence and ofcourse cash

we have excellent tuners here who have tremendous knowledge and potential
and many people on xbhp know to deal with their particular bikes

even you have amazing knowledge

having P220 Fi genes and being fastest Indian bike in production is enough to lure ppl to book it

Originally posted by hell_glider

there need not necessarily be anything wrong with that. jeremy clarkson does not own every car he reviews. he trashes some serious brands most of the times. same case with the airheads at some of our "auto and bike" magazines.

for e.g. ; sometimes you generally hear a brand of vehicle running and it consistently sounds bad, and you compare it with some other brand of vehicle which sounds so much better, and as someone who has done a fair bit of riding, one might find himself to be in a position to make a reasonably fair assessment of quality levels of a product without actually having to own one.

please note i have not mentioned ANY BRAND here. i am just questioning your logic about ownership being required to pass judgement about a product, which in my opinion is flawed. if you know your vehicles and your riding and are a reasonably experienced biker, a short ride on a bike should provide you a reasonable idea. but i notice your statement being made a number of times (maybe by other members as well) while defending BAL products.

i was commenting specifically on the single statement you had highlighted. so it does not really matter which version of your post i read, because I was only dealing with the last statement. In any case my post above was not brand related. it is general.

i don't believe ownership is a pre-requisite to forming an informed opinion about a product.

peace.

Thanks for the compliment. But the main reason, we do not have a lots of DIY parts here is that there is not a market for them. Of course it is difficult and needs knowledge and patience. But look at the western countries, people there have this hunger for knowledge and to do things themselves. Not so here - "why fiddle with this when a mech can do it?" is the general mindset.

Anyways this is OT. Maybe we can discuss further elsewhere.

Ok, how can you comment on the reliability of any product without owning it and just trying it out once?

I am honoured man. Hats off. You have a point.

Where there is will.. there is a way... and if there isnt a way.. GO CREATE IT.

@abhijeet,hell_glider,devipulsarian-Please get over it and continue with the topic at hand.

@Darthveda-Blue is the official colour of Bajaj.I don't see Bajaj taking it off from their flagship product.

Very true....
Even I don't

Lets move on...!

Blue is definitely here to stay.....

Damn! Good Morning all.

@MG: Looks like you had a very very busy day. Awesome job on the clean up.

New P220 launch is confirmed because :

- even Khivraj Bajaj Bangalore knew about it. Normally they don't know anything, but even they confirmed it so I guess it is true. Only question now is when and how better?

I guess this bike will be a semi-faired one like the P220. All black theme is highly likely.

One thing is for sure. Bajaj officials has definitely kept an eye on this thread. They must be smiling that 'Pulsar' as a brand image is not dead and still has the mojo.

Last post in this thread until the bike launches. Read-Only mode on.

Dear Mod (MGBiker),

We are keeping it really clean, without brand wars / flaming / bad language. is this really not allowed ?? if so, i'll discontinue this discussion following this post.

abhijeet,

you will notice i never used the word "reliability".

i was talking about general quality levels.

you can have two products "A" and "B" which both perform the task it was designed for and not break down, i.e. maintain expected levels of reliability.

"A" might get the job done without any complaints from you. But "B" too achieves that, but more importantly, "B" lets you enjoy it, derive pleasure from it while it gets the job done, because of certain characteristics it posseses, for e.g. by way of superior engineering quality levels contributing to desirable traits during its operation.

So therein lies the difference between the two products. Are you saying that because both are reliable, the pleasure that product "B" provides you during usage should be completely discounted and that "A" is in fact as good as "B" ??

Surely thats a flawed argument, wouldn't you think ??

now, if you are speaking of pulsars, with regards to reliability point you raised, even though i did not speak of it, i do have an answer for that. but whats the use ?? anything i say is going to be shot down by saying i have never owned a bajaj, so my comments on reliability of pulsars are unfounded and baseless. so lets not go down that road.

however, to specifically answer your exact question, i am assuming that you say it is not possible to comment or assume reliability of a product unless you own it. but is that really the way the world works in practicality ??? i mean do you have that much time in your life to make all your mistakes yourself, or are you also going to learn from other people's experiences ??? i mean if i have to buy a car / bike, i am going to speak to mechanics, other friends who are owners, read up on internet forums such as these, and then form an opinion. howsoever limited it may be, on its expected reliability, prior to my purchase.

Do you actually mean to say, you do not factor in reliability AT ALL, before you buy a new product, and instead intend to learn how realiable the product is during the course of ownership ??? thats a big gamble, and could prove to be an expensive one in some cases.

Yeah, Spent a couple of hours at Khivraj yesterday. The even know it's a Carbed 220, and supposed to be launched on 23rd.

What ever the case is, I feel lot people are going to be disappointed by leave of speculations we have here! Just think about non-xbhpians coming to the thread! A 250, New Engine, New Chassis, Ninja, 25BHP.. and what not..
One thing is for sure.. It's not going to be major upgrade anyway.. but again VFM!

You don't have to be an owner necessarily to pass a judgement but being obsessed with degenerating a brand which others obviously find good enough to be owned does not seem all that logical. And not everyone here is a journalist for whom this is something necessary. As somebody said above in more precise terms ... every manufacturer has his share or bad/good bikes but some people here find a bike bad because it comes from a particular manufacturer and not because of its actual demerits. I have been an owner of First generation Pulsar 180 and I do not quite understand why it keeps getting such severe criticism by some people whereas I still enjoy it so much after all those years and that is the reason I am so thrilled to see a 220 arriving.

this is the thing. i am not even a bajaj basher. i actually like the pulsar, the 180, to be specific. but any hint of criticism, even on the most generic level, and i am liable to considered as "being obsessed with degenerating a brand".

this is the second time this is hapening. yet, it is me who is the anti-bajaj fanatic and others are level-headed bajaj owers. strange.

NOTE TO SELF:
make no mention of refinement levels, smoothness, performance figures or any such characteristic in a bajaj thread, however level-headed or justified it may be.

for the Time being I'm waiting for that question mark to vanish from the image in bikeIndia's thread posted by Ken Cool...
but waiting phew its a hard task