Engine Oils

[akshayrbk]

Suggest engine oil for TBTS

Have clocked 5k kms on my bird, and was thinking of trying out new engine oil. I have been using motul 3000v as recommended by RE, good oil but i've found the engine and gear shifts to go shabby in just 1500 kms.
Im planning to shift to motul 5100 since it is better and has good reviews by the forum members. I was wondering what the difference between motul 3000 and 3100, is since both are mineral. Also would shifting to SS after just 5k km will be good or should i wait for another thousand odd km. Any other alternative?

[FranklySpeaking]

@frankly speaking - i dont think engine temp rises that high in a 100-150 cc (hair driers as per you, if you are talking of your truck, may be after a high rpm run you may get 150deg) if a bike is capable of attaining 150 deg celcius, if ridden normally, engine manufacturer should put up a temp sensor on it.. As its very dangerous to continue riding at that temp and the engine may seize.

It is not about what you think.

How have you reached to a conclusion that oil temperature never reaches as high as 150 degree celcius and that would lead to engine seizure? Do you have any statistics/facts/sources to say this or this is also what you think?

Top ring on the piston is directly in contact with the combustion taking place inside the combustion chamber with its other side touching oil. So, go figure.

[murlidhar]

most of the high performance bikes which , when with a little bit of modifications, can be run on tracks usually have temp indicators.
these bikes are high revving bikes.
atleast this is what i think. please correct me if i am wrong seniors

coming to the discussion( not argument) about engine getting heated , usually all motor vehicles are tested before they are launched in market.
any vehicle can overheated if driven to its limits for a long time. that includes high performance bikes too.
that is the reason why they have temp warning lights. they are meant for pushing the limits.
the regular ones don't.
so if a regular bike ( for e.g ct 100 ) is pushed to it's OWN limits for a considerable amount of time , i am sure the engine will get overheated. keeping these things in mind the manufactures decide the oil grade. but because the oil grade having its own limitations with high temperature there is a possibility that engine will get overheated if taken to its limitations.
now to keep things in short my own personal view , i feel that manufactures give temp warning lights to high performance bikes only cuz it was meant to be ridden hard. the other bikes sure can get overheated when they are taken to its OWN limits.
the engine seizure occurs when the engine gets heated and expanded.

: )
ideally all vehicles should have temp warning system but the manufacturers don't feel it is necessary (also to reduce the cost) cuz they expect that commuters will be driven like commuters only.

[FranklySpeaking]

Facts are right but the truth is partial. ambient temps must be considered while choosing oils because lower temps will help engine to shed more heat. hence lower viscosity can be used because it wont thin out much. On the other hand, higher ambient temps will make an engine to radiate less heat, this excess heat will stay in engine (and its components including oil) hence thinning its engine oil more when compared to lower ambient temperature.
Another thing to consider is hot spots.
P.S. RTR's recommendation is w40.

The significance of the number before the number W is very simple. It is NOT about the oil getting thinner. Rather, it has to do with helping you not selecting an oil that gets thicker (more viscous) than a certain value because it gives you the viscosity on the cold side.

It is the Number-After-W that talks about the lower side of the viscosity of the oil (when the oil gets very thin) that an oil can go to and still meet those API standards! Now, that is when you should talk about increasing temperatures and not when you are talking about the number-before-W!

[Honda_CBF]

The significance of the number before the number W is very simple. It is NOT about the oil getting thinner. Rather, it has to do with helping you not selecting an oil that gets thicker (more viscous) than a certain value because it gives you the viscosity on the cold side.

yes I understand that. btw, I was only talking about the number after w

It is the Number-After-W that talks about the lower side of the viscosity of the oil (when the oil gets very thin) that an oil can go to and still meet those API standards! Now, that is when you should talk about increasing temperatures and not when you are talking about the number-before-W!

Exactly my point!! Bold part is misunderstanding by you or my unability to make things clear

[muztariq]

It is not about what you think.

How have you reached to a conclusion that oil temperature never reaches as high as 150 degree celcius and that would lead to engine seizure? Do you have any statistics/facts/sources to say this or this is also what you think?

Top ring on the piston is directly in contact with the combustion taking place inside the combustion chamber with its other side touching oil. So, go figure.

Did you ever read about high end bikes temperature sensors.. Even a big cc 1000cc / 600cc engine does not run above 100 deg celcius.. If it goes above this reading.. Its radiator fan is activated, it it continues.. At 115 deg celcius its engine high temp warning turns 'on'. At that temp, one should stop the bike and allow it to cool..
Now, engineers have put the sensor in the sump or at around the dipstick or behind the piston rings.. Its their call.. A logical option would be to place it right below the combustion chamber.. Our very own 100 cc - 150cc bikes run at around 80-90 deg celcius when ridden normally..
Think logical. Also, at 150 deg celcius, the w40 oil will lose all its lubricating properties and your piston may get stick to the chamber walls.. Ever run without oil in your engine.. My bro did.. Engine seized after 35 kms on a brand new passion (service guy forgot to put back the oil during first service.. he was busy watching a cricket match in which zaheer khan was hitting sixes. Really!)
whats the normal temp readings on high end bikes? See this link.
2002 CBR 600 F4i ENGINE TEMPERATURE - Radiator - Cooling Fan? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org

@honda cbf.. When you say 10w30 works well at 30 deg celcius ambient temperature.. Though correct, but they think, you think 30 in 10w30 is ambient temperatures.. This starts a confusion.
:-)

[gallifrey]

Just got this for my splendor. Gonna give it for service & change the oil

Sent from my Motorola Photon 4G

[Honda_CBF]

@honda cbf.. When you say 10w30 works well at 30 deg celcius ambient temperature.. Though correct, but they think, you think 30 in 10w30 is ambient temperatures.. This starts a confusion.
:-)

hmm.. Thanks for pointing out. Will use the "temp chart" with those type of posts.

[FranklySpeaking]

Did you ever read about high end bikes temperature sensors.. Even a big cc 1000cc / 600cc engine does not run above 100 deg celcius.. If it goes above this reading.. Its radiator fan is activated, it it continues.. At 115 deg celcius its engine high temp warning turns 'on'. At that temp, one should stop the bike and allow it to cool..
Now, engineers have put the sensor in the sump or at around the dipstick or behind the piston rings.. Its their call.. A logical option would be to place it right below the combustion chamber.. Our very own 100 cc - 150cc bikes run at around 80-90 deg celcius when ridden normally..
Think logical. Also, at 150 deg celcius, the w40 oil will lose all its lubricating properties and your piston may get stick to the chamber walls.. Ever run without oil in your engine.. My bro did.. Engine seized after 35 kms on a brand new passion (service guy forgot to put back the oil during first service.. he was busy watching a cricket match in which zaheer khan was hitting sixes. Really!)
whats the normal temp readings on high end bikes? See this link.
2002 CBR 600 F4i ENGINE TEMPERATURE - Radiator - Cooling Fan? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org

@honda cbf.. When you say 10w30 works well at 30 deg celcius ambient temperature.. Though correct, but they think, you think 30 in 10w30 is ambient temperatures.. This starts a confusion.
:-)

He he.

1. I do not understand how these 600/1000cc motorcycles have come into picture. Does your motorcycle have an oil cooled engine? If yes, does it also have temperature and cutoff sensors? If no, you should be talking about air-cooled engines, which generally run hotter than the oil cooled ones.

2. Nowhere did I say that 150 degree celcius is the normal operating temperature of an engine oil. Tell me the number of the post, if ever I said that.


You are saying that at 150 degree celcius, oil loses its lubricating properties. Do you know that the same oils are used in diesel engines too, which run much hotter than the petrol engines? Only the additives are different, along with a higher detergent level in case of oils meant for diesel engines. I would appreciate if we all start speaking out the facts than the banter off the mind.


Also, I see that everyone here is too much skeptical about oils losing viscosity. That is very small a problem, my dears! Biggest problem is elsewhere, that is too thick an oil, when you start an engine. Even a 0W30 is very thick for your motorcycle engine if you are starting your motorcycle at 25 degree celcius oil temperature!

I have this excellent encyclopedia on oil for you guys. Please go here and do some reading. Just keep going to next page till it completes.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Thank you.

[FranklySpeaking]

By the way, I am going for the service of my motorcycle. Tell me if there is any manufacturer that sells a 500 ml pack of 10W30 motor oil? I need only about 450 ml for the clutch, do not want to buy whole 1 liter and then throw away rest of the oil.

[Honda_CBF]

By the way, I am going for the service of my motorcycle. Tell me if there is any manufacturer that sells a 500 ml pack of 10W30 motor oil? I need only about 450 ml for the clutch, do not want to buy whole 1 liter and then throw away rest of the oil.

HP Racer 10w30 is available in 500ml pack at HP bunks.
Btw, why throw/give away? You can store it for next time.
And nice info there in the link.
@ muztariq ji,
oil doesn't loose all its properties at 150'C. That's the point where oil 'starts' loosing it.

[FranklySpeaking]

Btw, why throw/give away? You can store it for next time.

Engine oils have shelf life. So, I avoid keeping them once the bottle has been opened. Even otherwise, I do not buy oils that have packing date more than a 4-5 months old.

[Pinaki]

Have clocked 5k kms on my bird, and was thinking of trying out new engine oil. I have been using motul 3000v as recommended by RE, good oil but i've found the engine and gear shifts to go shabby in just 1500 kms.
Im planning to shift to motul 5100 since it is better and has good reviews by the forum members. I was wondering what the difference between motul 3000 and 3100, is since both are mineral. Also would shifting to SS after just 5k km will be good or should i wait for another thousand odd km. Any other alternative?

You are using Motul 3000 4T Plus 15w50 mineral oil (recommended by RE) on your bike now . Motul 3100 gold 20w50 is a petroleum derived synthetic oil . Motul 5100 is an ester based semi-synthetic oil .
IMHO rather run the bike on mineral oil until 10000 kms , replacing the oil every 2000 kms or less . Then try out the 3100 20w50 .
The oil lasts shorter on your bike as the engine is still new and produces more heat and Thunderbird's UCE engine is quite hot running by itself too . Needing 3 bottles of oil for every change , what is your hurry to change to synthetic ?

Engine oils have shelf life. So, I avoid keeping them once the bottle has been opened. Even otherwise, I do not buy oils that have packing date more than a 4-5 months old.

Do not worry , you can keep the extra oil quite safely for a couple of years (tightly capped indoor storage) , and you can use a sealed pack of oil for twice that , at least . No problem .
btw , did you ever find that 00 grease they ask for in the gearbox ? it leaks with oil ...

[muztariq]

He he.

1. I do not understand how these 600/1000cc motorcycles have come into picture. Does your motorcycle have an oil cooled engine? If yes, does it also have temperature and cutoff sensors? If no, you should be talking about air-cooled engines, which generally run hotter than the oil cooled ones.

It is not about what you think.

How have you reached to a conclusion that oil temperature never reaches as high as 150 degree celcius and that would lead to engine seizure? Do you have any statistics/facts/sources to say this or this is also what you think?

2. Nowhere did I say that 150 degree celcius is the normal operating temperature of an engine oil. Tell me the number of the post, if ever I said that.


You are saying that at 150 degree celcius, oil loses its lubricating properties. Do you know that the same oils are used in diesel engines too, which run much hotter than the petrol engines? Only the additives are different, along with a higher detergent level in case of oils meant for diesel engines. I would appreciate if we all start speaking out the facts than the banter off the mind. Turbocharged diesel engines run hotter but do they come in aircooled bikes.. Their coolant system is designed to handle that.


Also, I see that everyone here is too much skeptical about oils losing viscosity. That is very small a problem, my dears! Biggest problem is elsewhere, that is too thick an oil, when you start an engine. Even a 0W30 is very thick for your motorcycle engine if you are starting your motorcycle at 25 degree celcius oil temperature! That is what I meant! when I enlisted 10w40 fits best in Indian climate.. and you replied that are manufacturers fool? when they give 20W40 recommendation.

I have this excellent encyclopedia on oil for you guys. Please go here and do some reading. Just keep going to next page till it completes.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

Thanks for the link, but seriously.. did anyone miss bobistheoilguy when one starts reading about oils.

Thank you.

Answeres in Bold.

[FranklySpeaking]