Engine Oils

[B7ACKTHORN]

From quite sometime I have stopped reading to the marketing statements which are written on the oil packs.
Firstly.. they are pure marketing statements and have no real meaning.
Secondly, they are of no use to me.

If the manufacturer recommends 20w40 or 20w50 grade and API SG, SL or higher. I just take the oil which meets these criteria with eyes closed. It is sufficient enough to give me the protection I need.. (may not be comfort).

The real problem arises when I want more protection.. more comfort.. extended drain intervals.. In pursuit of these extra(more) goodies I force early oil changes, buy SS and FS stuff etc etc.

Why will anyone buy a crapstrol even if it states 100% FS oil when after 500 kms the oil behaves dead.

Marketing the product with terms like magnatec will not make the oil great.. Triple protection.. enhanced engine life.. trizone etc are just marketting terms. All oils come with nearly the same formula.. the chemistry hasnt changed.

For example "its specially formulated heat protection molecules" can just be a term used for oil!! Engine Oil is a specially formulated liquid which protects the engine from heat build up.

All oil(chemical) manufacturers have to disclose the ingredients which they are using in their formulations. Its called MSDS. Material safety data sheet. Take a look at the various MSDS'es of various oils and check what all they have. Its more or less the same compounds.. same VII polymers.. same detergents.. same Zinc and Phosphate compounds.. same antioxidants..

Collect all the labels from various websites from oil manufacturers and all will read the same -

Sludge protection
Enhanced engine life
High temperature protection
Reduced oil consumption
Some will even say better mileage!!

Now whatever out of the world names you give them, the basics remain the same. If an oil is SAE 20w40 it has got all what it takes to become a good engine oil which will protect the engine all the time. Now if your engine is very new and made keepimg API SM rated specs and fitted with equipments like catalytic convertors etc it will not take a 20w40 SG rated oil. Though the oil is good enuf for the engine but for these equipments it is poisonous. That is the relevance of the Sx Ratings.

Bottomline - Just dont read the marketing statements. SAE, API, JASO ratings are sufficient for our vehicles.
For Cars, VW 505.00, 505.01, ACEA, BMW-LL-01 etc etc ratings further notifies the user which oil to use in which vehicle.. just a SAE, API SM/SN rating is not sufficient.

Yes, Muztariq, agree to almost most of the points. It's just that I always see JASO and MA specific lube for the most part preferably the visosity, and that's pretty much it. But it's just when sometimes you know something is right, but for the record you have to compass it in a different way, so that people understand quite easily.

One of my friend who works for Texaco, is a chemicals expert, who advocates me a lot of times, when I enquire him about oils, but at times, he gets fooled about the questions I ask him.

I myself have suggested engine oils to numerous guys, including mechanics, but sometimes it's your eyes it just fools to compel you to believe something it doesn't

Cheers!
VJ

[mechravi]

i had tried shell 10w30 in my glamour it is little bit better than hh oil but only for 1000km

then i got veedol 10w40 syn blend it is perfect oil for glamour.i have been using it for 2000km engine is smooth ,first 60 km/hr
was comfortable now its 75km/hr

i guess the main thing about oil is to reduce friction.if your engine runs cooler than with previous oil and no clutch slippage it is best because friction increases heating much more and engine running cooler is sign of reduced
friction

[muztariq]

@mechravi - you will get same feeling with any XXw40 oil. using 10w30 and xxw40 makes huge difference especially in summers or long rides. Try 10w40 AX7 next time.

[sibun]

i had tried shell 10w30 in my glamour it is little bit better than hh oil but only for 1000km

then i got veedol 10w40 syn blend it is perfect oil for glamour.i have been using it for 2000km engine is smooth ,first 60 km/hr
was comfortable now its 75km/hr

i guess the main thing about oil is to reduce friction.if your engine runs cooler than with previous oil and no clutch slippage it is best because friction increases heating much more and engine running cooler is sign of reduced
friction

[ATTACH=CONFIG]88128[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]88129[/ATTACH]

I had repeatedly said in this forum that Veedol swift 10W 40 is the best oil in this range, but sadly most go for flashy brands than product quality. Veedol is the supplier to Hero, and honda. SWIFT is the best oil and use once to know the difference. I was using previously in my joy and once by mistake i rode it for 5k without changing oil, but still it was running without any problem. After my friend exhausted this oil he stocked shell ax7 10W 40 in his shop and now the stocks are over and now i have strictly told him to stock veedol swift.

Regarding the synthetic technology of castrol this is marketing gimmick. Most people fall for it. It is actually a mineral oil. When i go to my friends shop most people come for castrol and if you make them understand and try to sell motul, veedol, shell e.t.c then they remark that castrol is best and all others are local. SOme even argue about the same and are not ready for other oils. All mechanics think castrol is no.1 oil and all others are crap.
If you see the activ pack you will see that it is mentioned as exceeds API SL AND JASO MA2 specification.
All others are API SM and JASO MA2 and in castrol no certification has been mentioned and all other oils MA or MA2 will be written in a box and above it a number will be written. That is the certificate number. Castrol doesn't have any and simply mentions exceeds MA 2.
Even OE hero oil has JASO MA certification and is supplied by VEEDOL.

[B7ACKTHORN]

....that it is mentioned as exceeds API SL AND JASO MA2 specification.
All others are API SM and JASO MA2 and in castrol no certification has been mentioned and all other oils MA or MA2 will be written in a box and above it a number will be written. That is the certificate number. Castrol doesn't have any and simply mentions exceeds MA 2.
...

Appreciate the points mate, will clear a lot of doubts. Also as a note, I think I'd make some points here. Though SL SM all that hoopla behind the can is just pretty much exaggerated, I think when it comes to bikes, as a general rule I think you should chuck the very thought of API, because as I've been advocated, it's generally isn't a grade meant for bikes.

This is where JASO comes, specifically engineered for motorcycles. So in that context if people look closely, they can see in Motul it just says MA bolded as a significant part. Though there is the mention of API SG/SH/SJ/SL is, just as a general rule of thumb to sell products "so called certified to US" standards.

So JASO T, MA is all related to bikes with no hassles!

Cheers!
VJ

[s1d]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]88128[/ATTACH]

ax5 10w30 900ml - i've never been able to spot this in the 2 shell bunks in hyderabad. they only have the ax5 20w40 1l packs which i use . a friend of mine wanted to try this on his unicorn since the 'recommended' grade is 10w30 now (the funny thing is honda sells/markets 10w30 but the manuals tell a different story .
But IMO, 10(or20)w40 is the best for most bikes!

[psr]

I had started using the Shell Rimula R3X 15 W 40 ,which is a diesel oil..I had so far done only 50 Kms, so a report on personal experience is not possible at this time..The Rimula series have no friction modifiers, and have 1~2 % of Zinc Alkyl dithiophosphate which is a very helpful additive in reducing friction...so far no clutch slip, and vibes have reduced...the acceleration is also superior and comparable with Valvoline 15w40 oil , which so far is one of the best oil tried by me.

[B7ACKTHORN]

I had started using the Shell Rimula R3X 15 W 40 ,which is a diesel oil..I had so far done only 50 Kms, so a report on personal experience is not possible at this time..The Rimula series have no friction modifiers, and have 1~2 % of Zinc Alkyl dithiophosphate which is a very helpful additive in reducing friction...so far no clutch slip, and vibes have reduced...the acceleration is also superior and comparable with Valvoline 15w40 oil , which so far is one of the best oil tried by me.

Super like. Please don't forget to post a long term review. Awaiting eagerly, especially for the diesel oil.

Cheers!
VJ

[sandeepcf]

I had started using the Shell Rimula R3X 15 W 40 ,which is a diesel oil..I had so far done only 50 Kms, so a report on personal experience is not possible at this time..The Rimula series have no friction modifiers, and have 1~2 % of Zinc Alkyl dithiophosphate which is a very helpful additive in reducing friction...so far no clutch slip, and vibes have reduced...the acceleration is also superior and comparable with Valvoline 15w40 oil , which so far is one of the best oil tried by me.

Isn't it a bit thick for 15w40? I once used this R3 in Indica after reading some forums, but the results were not good at all; observed increase in noise and reduced acceleration/response(even though it is Indica). Never used it in a motorcycle though. Please leave a feedback after 1000kms.

[B7ACKTHORN]

Isn't it a bit thick for 15w40? I once used this R3 in Indica after reading some forums, but the results were not good at all; observed increase in noise and reduced acceleration/response(even though it is Indica). Never used it in a motorcycle though. Please leave a feedback after 1000kms.

I guess he's using it in his two wheeler, let's wait for the final word from the man himself.

Cheers!
VJ

[muztariq]

[psr]

Just completed only 100 kms so cannot form a opinion..The oil is not as thick as deemed to be....There is no drop in acceleration, and engine is smooth,and engine noise is attenuated..I am using Rimula R3X and is 260/- per liter..I went in for this because of it's Zinc Alkyl Dithiophosphate, which is a known protector of all engine parts....All modern oils have removed this compound from their composition ,since over a period of time the Cat con is poisoned....Since the 4 stroke engine is already superior in controlled emission, I had taken a calculated risk...
Elsewhere Porche had also shifted to the Shell Rotella 15w40 and 20w50 in their cars for the same reason, since their Cam ,valves and crank suffered damage in many vehicles.
A more meaningful observation can be made only after 1,000 Kms...

[psr]

Isn't it a bit thick for 15w40? I once used this R3 in Indica after reading some forums, but the results were not good at all; observed increase in noise and reduced acceleration/response(even though it is Indica). Never used it in a motorcycle though. Please leave a feedback after 1000kms.

The Shell Rimula R3 came as a single grade and multigrade...both of which worked well with stationary engines......The R3X is meant for vehicle Engines and contains Triple Protection ...The Rimula R4 is a superior product compared to R3X in controlling wear and deposit and is much more suitable for old engines with higher combustion residues. You must choose the oil for your engine after studying their properties, additives, and select which is best for your engine's spec...

[madhav krishna]

Just completed only 100 kms so cannot form a opinion..The oil is not as thick as deemed to be....There is no drop in acceleration, and engine is smooth,and engine noise is attenuated..I am using Rimula R3X and is 260/- per liter..I went in for this because of it's Zinc Alkyl Dithiophosphate, which is a known protector of all engine parts....All modern oils have removed this compound from their composition ,since over a period of time the Cat con is poisoned....Since the 4 stroke engine is already superior in controlled emission, I had taken a calculated risk...
Elsewhere Porche had also shifted to the Shell Rotella 15w40 and 20w50 in their cars for the same reason, since their Cam ,valves and crank suffered damage in many vehicles.
A more meaningful observation can be made only after 1,000 Kms...

I had changed my bike's stock exhaust with an FFE. So it doesnt have the cat-con anymore & i donot need to worry about the cat-con poisoning. But are there any other issues to be careful of like clutch slipping, etc??. & you got the 5ltrs package, right?? Coz AFAIK shell doesnt have any 1ltr package for the rimula series.

The Shell Rimula R3 came as a single grade and multigrade...both of which worked well with stationary engines......The R3X is meant for vehicle Engines and contains Triple Protection ...The Rimula R4 is a superior product compared to R3X in controlling wear and deposit and is much more suitable for old engines with higher combustion residues. You must choose the oil for your engine after studying their properties, additives, and select which is best for your engine's spec...

I had read somewhere in this thread that the diesel oils tend to be more sticky & thicker than what a usual bike oil of same grading does. Is the oil thicker than even a 20W50 grade oil??

[psr]

I had changed my bike's stock exhaust with an FFE. So it doesnt have the cat-con anymore & i donot need to worry about the cat-con poisoning. But are there any other issues to be careful of like clutch slipping, etc??. & you got the 5ltrs package, right?? Coz AFAIK shell doesnt have any 1ltr package for the rimula series.

I had read somewhere in this thread that the diesel oils tend to be more sticky & thicker than what a usual bike oil of same grading does. Is the oil thicker than even a 20W50 grade oil??

I got the One Liter pack at 260/-.....Even though my bike has catcon i am not worried, because at 27+ K Kms it must be already dead from bad Petrol and the mechanical vibes which would make the coating flake off......The Diesel Engine gets dirty in crank quickly because of the blowby ...so the oil contains detergents and suspension holders which keeps the blowby trapped and floating in the oil. This ensures a cleaner engine. In Petrol engines with lesser compression this blowby is limited, and the detergents help to keep the Engine cleaner than conventional Gasoline oils...More than any of this, this particular oil Rimula R3X contains 1~2 % of Zinc Alkyl Dithiophosphate which protects the Cam, valves etc.,The R3X does not contain friction modifiers , so clutch slippage will not occur..The Additive I had mentioned does not cause clutch slip.... My ZMA at 100+ Kms with this oil had not shown any slip so far, and on the contrary, the gear shift had become smooth,and changes with a clean click which was absent before with oils meant for Gasoline engine.
The R3X 15w40 is just like the 15w40 of any gasoline engine oil in consistency(has to be)...After about 500 kms only I will know if the oil starts to change color with blowby, and to what extent....I am also keeping an eye on the Spark plug to know if there are any deposits other than the normal ones....