Engine Oils

[junaid12345678]

Hmm fine then I'll just stick to motul mineral for the summer atleast, the problem is me and my bro have the same model unicorn, just difference is his is about 10k less used than mine, but when I ride his bike it feels soo different, the bikes pickup is very quick compared to mine, and in mine I change gear at 4 rmp coz of the bikes sound and his bike I change at 5rpm so its like my unis engine is as stressed at 4rpm as his unis 5rpm. And its so smooth too, compared to his bike mine feels like a bajaj engine I don't think 10k difference would make so much difference in performance and smoothness on 2 bikes

I own a CBZ xtreme with 44000 in the odo. I used the regular 10w30 grade oil manufactured by tide water company(HH genuine oil) till 35k kms and then I switched to Castrol Power1 semi synthetic and found my bikes performance much better at high revs with lot reduced vibrations and pickup have improved drastically. Then I switched to Shell Advance Ultra FS oil and wonders since then. My bike became much more responsive, gear shifts became butter smooth and vibrations can't even be noticed. What surprised me is I beat a Pulsar 150 in a quick 0-60 sprint which I never been able to do before. What I have understood is the magic engine oils can show. Proper engine oil, right type and right grade can make any dull engine go zoom. This must have happened in your Unicorn too.

[sinnerz2000]

I own a CBZ xtreme with 44000 in the odo. I used the regular 10w30 grade oil manufactured by tide water company(HH genuine oil) till 35k kms and then I switched to Castrol Power1 semi synthetic and found my bikes performance much better at high revs with lot reduced vibrations and pickup have improved drastically. Then I switched to Shell Advance Ultra FS oil and wonders since then. My bike became much more responsive, gear shifts became butter smooth and vibrations can't even be noticed. What surprised me is I beat a Pulsar 150 in a quick 0-60 sprint which I never been able to do before. What I have understood is the magic engine oils can show. Proper engine oil, right type and right grade can make any dull engine go zoom. This must have happened in your Unicorn too.

Yea but me nd my bikes bro are same, he doesn't use any other oil other than mineral and he doesn't even know which oil goes into his bike, his mech does it for him

[Pinaki]

Try out a bottle of 10w30 or 10w40 oil of your choice . There is no harm in trying out this grade of oils for once . That is the only way for you to feel all the different aspects .
Other than that , since your bike is 10k older than your Bro's , check out the other possible things too . Like wheels , bearings , chain & sprockets , carburetor , air-cleaner , oil filters , spark-plug it's cap and the ignition circuit , brake pads & drums/disc etc . The difference between the two bikes may not be just because of the oil only , nahi ?

@ ALL - please avoid quoting the other member's post in whole everytime you reply to it . It's unnecessary and makes the thread cluttered and difficult to follow . This my humble request to all .

[sinnerz2000]

Try out a bottle of 10w30 or 10w40 oil of your choice . There is no harm in trying out this grade of oils for once . That is the only way for you to feel all the different aspects .
Other than that , since your bike is 10k older than your Bro's , check out the other possible things too . Like wheels , bearings , chain & sprockets , carburetor , air-cleaner , oil filters , spark-plug it's cap and the ignition circuit , brake pads & drums/disc etc . The difference between the two bikes may not be just because of the oil only , nahi ?

@ ALL - please avoid quoting the other member's post in whole everytime you reply to it . It's unnecessary and makes the thread cluttered and difficult to follow . This my humble request to all .

Yup I kno, I've checked all parts too but haven't found anything wrong.

[mayank.travadi]

@all

thanks for helping me out ..i probably was being paranoid about the new engine oil and was scared thinking i hope i havent screwed up my bike by usingan oil not recomended by the company during warranty period and even changing the oil outisde by a local mechanic..

The motul 3000 mineral oil truly is a very good oil..i do not know if it better than stock bajaj oil coz may be the old oil was feeling harsh because well..it was old and in a new engine full of dirt...but now my bike is butter smooth...gear shifts are better and engine sound has changed with the new oil...
however i do notice a little cold start problem...may be cause of the low idle...or may be becuase the average minimum temperature for mumbai has dipped by 7 degrees

the clutch issue may be was a bit imaginary and a bit real...may be it was real and i adjusted to it...earlier on old oil the harshness of the engine noise told me that yes clutch has engaged and u can let go now....but now engine is so smooth and quiet(comparatively) i might have made a mistake because of this( a noob rider with no more than 4 month riding experience)

i think i'll stick to motul mineral for my further oil changes...daily running isnt much to justify using semi synthetic oils however the 3100 SS is just a little costlier compared to mineral (Rs. 265 vs 330 or so)

@blackthorn and pinaki..yes i saw the oil filter was very dirty (doing its job perfectly for a new engine as u guys said and looked muddy...but couldnt see any fine metal particles on it....nor on the oil strainer...
but why is there a muddy apperance? i'd like to know what kind of gunk and dirt comes out making the oil this way? i know running in makes the cylinder shave of some metal but i dont see any metal...but dirt...why??

and is there any sure shot way of knowing the running in is over? except opening up the engine offcourse

becuase if the running in range is given 1000kms....a guy doing 50 on a highway on 5/6th gear will reach 100 earlier than a guy who does frequent gear shifts and extensive city ride but has completed only 500kms and probably the engine has turned the same amount of time and revlutions for both the bikes?

i read that the sound of the bike changes after running in is done....well my bike sound changed just with a new oil...

[pixantz]

Hmm fine then I'll just stick to motul mineral for the summer atleast, the problem is me and my bro have the same model unicorn, just difference is his is about 10k less used than mine, but when I ride his bike it feels soo different, the bikes pickup is very quick compared to mine, and in mine I change gear at 4 rmp coz of the bikes sound and his bike I change at 5rpm so its like my unis engine is as stressed at 4rpm as his unis 5rpm. And its so smooth too, compared to his bike mine feels like a bajaj engine I don't think 10k difference would make so much difference in performance and smoothness on 2 bikes

Hi Sinners. I think there are many many more factors that could influence the performance difference between the two bikes as you described. Not just oil. First of all theres ECG - Engine Clutch Gear. Here the factors could range from tappet settings, to block piston condition , to clutch plate wear, etc. Then there comes the carburator, the small rubber part connecting it to the engine, tuning, rectifier, the list could go on... Oil cannot always be the culprit. What I'm trying to say is we often tend to overlook the other factors. Sometimes it takes tome to pin point why we are not achieving that blissfull performance we crave for. Try to look em all up!

[sinnerz2000]

Hi Sinners. I think there are many many more factors that could influence the performance difference between the two bikes as you described. Not just oil. First of all theres ECG - Engine Clutch Gear. Here the factors could range from tappet settings, to block piston condition , to clutch plate wear, etc. Then there comes the carburator, the small rubber part connecting it to the engine, tuning, rectifier, the list could go on... Oil cannot always be the culprit. What I'm trying to say is we often tend to overlook the other factors. Sometimes it takes tome to pin point why we are not achieving that blissfull performance we crave for. Try to look em all up!

Yea I know, the problem is pin pointing that one part causing the problem

[Pinaki]

Yea I know, the problem is pin pointing that one part causing the problem

Through the life we bikers keep having one or another issue with our rides . Then when things get serious we try hard to find the exact problem and get that fixed . In the begining , that is a difficult thing to do - we often end up repairing or replacing perfectly good parts while the trouble remains . Eventualy once we find it and get it fixed , we get a good association in our mind of the problem and it's symptoms for the bike . After many years of riding we get so good at it that we can make a fair guess as to whats the trouble with any bike we ride and where exactly it needs attention . This is a lifelong process for any biker - I feel(atleast for me it has been so) . For you I'd say find a great mechanic with lots of experience and ask him to look at your bike .

... however i do notice a little cold start problem ...
@blackthorn and pinaki..yes i saw the oil filter was very dirty (doing its job perfectly for a new engine as u guys said and looked muddy...but couldnt see any fine metal particles on it....nor on the oil strainer ... but why is there a muddy apperance? i'd like to know what kind of gunk and dirt comes out making the oil this way? i know running in makes the cylinder shave of some metal but i dont see any metal...but dirt...why??
and is there any sure shot way of knowing the running in is over? except opening up the engine offcourse ....
i read that the sound of the bike changes after running in is done....well my bike sound changed just with a new oil...

If the outside climate is a bit cold and bike has been sitting outside in cold garage - use choke to start and let it warm up for a full minute on choke . After that disengage choke and ride slow on low gears for a km beofre you gun the engine your way . This is the normal warmup process for cold days .

That mud you see in the drained oil & oil filter is very fine metal dust . If you look at it under strong light, it'll glitter .. but you need magnification to make out the particles . As you ride on and keep changing oil , this muddiness in the drained oil shall reduce everytime . When it becomes minimal , your engine parts are now truly set . However it shall never become zero , that is because even after setting the parts go on wearing for the life of the engine . This is why for a new engine my humble suggestion is to go on changing the oil a bit early (like every 1500kms) for the first 10000kms . Hopefully you are also changing the replaceable oil filter too everytime with your oil . Hope I could answer both your questions .

[sinnerz2000]

Through the life we bikers keep having one or another issue with our rides . Then when things get serious we try hard to find the exact problem and get that fixed . In the begining , that is a difficult thing to do - we often end up repairing or replacing perfectly good parts while the trouble remains . Eventualy once we find it and get it fixed , we get a good association in our mind of the problem and it's symptoms for the bike . After many years of riding we get so good at it that we can make a fair guess as to whats the trouble with any bike we ride and where exactly it needs attention . This is a lifelong process for any biker - I feel(atleast for me it has been so) . For you I'd say find a great mechanic with lots of experience and ask him to look at your bike .

If the outside climate is a bit cold and bike has been sitting outside in cold garage - use choke to start and let it warm up for a full minute on choke . After that disengage choke and ride slow on low gears for a km beofre you gun the engine your way . This is the normal warmup process for cold days .

That mud you see in the drained oil & oil filter is very fine metal dust . If you look at it under strong light, it'll glitter .. but you need magnification to make out the particles . As you ride on and keep changing oil , this muddiness in the drained oil shall reduce everytime . When it becomes minimal , your engine parts are now truly set . However it shall never become zero , that is because even after setting the parts go on wearing for the life of the engine . This is why for a new engine my humble suggestion is to go on changing the oil a bit early (like every 1500kms) for the first 10000kms . Hopefully you are also changing the replaceable oil filter too everytime with your oil . Hope I could answer both your questions .

True bro

[B7ACKTHORN]

thanks for helping me out ..i probably was being paranoid about the new engine oil and was scared thinking i hope i havent screwed up my bike by usingan oil not recomended by the company during warranty period and even changing the oil outisde by a local mechanic..

however i do notice a little cold start problem...may be cause of the low idle...or may be becuase the average minimum temperature for mumbai has dipped by 7 degrees
the clutch issue may be was a bit imaginary and a bit real...may be it was real and i adjusted to it...earlier on old oil the harshness of the engine noise told me that yes clutch has engaged and u can let go now....but now engine is so smooth and quiet(comparatively) i might have made a mistake because of this( a noob rider with no more than 4 month riding experience)

Weather and ambient temperature does play some role when it comes to idle speed. Faced this a lot of times. Sometimes, when I happen to switch between hot and cold climates. For example, if my bike is stopped over night in a cold place, the next day the idle speed at the first crank isn't always really jerky or low, but after running to KM or so it sets in, which is nothing but the oil playing here, whereas in a summer climate, it goes in first crank and just the needle stays still at the exact 1000 RPM (220). All it needs to get is warmed up due to the friction to heat coefficient produced by the engine.

...the oil filter was very dirty (doing its job perfectly for a new engine as u guys said and looked muddy...but couldnt see any fine metal particles on it....nor on the oil strainer...
but why is there a muddy apperance? i'd like to know what kind of gunk and dirt comes out making the oil this way? i know running in makes the cylinder shave of some metal but i dont see any metal...but dirt...why??

Simple, it is because the oil is doing its work. You may not find significant lumps of pieces in an oil drain procedure, but it's not surprising to see even some metal chips or very tiny parts to be seen by naked eye. Remember you can't expect to see some significant lumps, if that's the case, it would be something in the engine that's breaking up and I myself have seen a bearing joint cut up and ended up in drain oil, but that's the reality of abused engine. But the oil glazed, foamy etc all means that the oil did it's job spot on.

Clear now?

Cheers!
VJ

[mayank.travadi]

@ pinaki sir and blackthorn sir...thank you very much for the valuable answers...i feel i learn something everyday by visiting the threads where u have replied...including this and the ownership thread of p220 and splendor where u guys were discussing about sparkplugs and their resistance...never new such small things matter....look at everything as a whole...every small part of the bike makes the bike behave the way it is behaving and a small thing can change everything...

i never new the muddy appearance is due to fine metal dust....and i am quite shocked that so much metal dust is shed in the new engine....compared to the dust in oil...there was almost none in the oil filter...probably it reached its filtering capacity and couldnt remove more from the oil...
hope not to see lumps like u mentioned..

and so i am shocked how come bajaj recommends using the same oil for 10000kms and changing oil at alterate service and topping up at the services between them

yes i have visited and learnt from this thread a lot and hence i changed my oil first right at 200 kms and next at 900kms....since the daily run isnt much..it helps me to change the engine oil at required time interval at less kms

@pinaki sir u said using choke for a minute..isnt that too much?? using it for 5-10 seconds usually does the job for me...and using choke on new bikes and getting a habit ofit is bad right? they say after a long rest the bike shouldnt be revved high and it should be taken easy for first km or so...then doesnt using the choke make the bike over rev and damage the internals as oil isnt well spread due to long rest?

Hope my silly questions arent bugging you guys...

[B7ACKTHORN]

@pinaki sir u said using choke for a minute..isnt that too much?? using it for 5-10 seconds usually does the job for me...and using choke on new bikes and getting a habit ofit is bad right? they say after a long rest the bike shouldnt be revved high and it should be taken easy for first km or so...then doesnt using the choke make the bike over rev and damage the internals as oil isnt well spread due to long rest?

Hope my silly questions arent bugging you guys...

There isn't something as using choke too long or too low buddy. The main job of choke is to provide a little richer mix than the air ratio fed into the engine, that's the reason you see engine cranking up real quick when using a choke. I will give you one good example of how it works.

For example, you eat some solid chunk of food, and you're gulping them so fast, suddenly it gets stuck in your throat, will you eat more solid food? You immediately tend to revert back to water, that water is choke and the food is the blocked droplets of unevaporated fuel inside the carb throat. So every morning you are just, depending on your bike's throat condition the choke may be used.

Just make sure in, manual chokes, not to run the bike (moving on) with choke on, it can cause fluctuations in AFR and performance might be affected. If one forgets his choke and keeps on riding this for like years (yes years) he/she will ruin their engine for sure.

Cheers!
VJ

[Pinaki]

That is an approximate estimate - some bikes need a minute and some warms up ok to ride in 30 seconds - soon you'll find out what your bike likes and do likewise . What the choke does is operate a lever in the carburetor that makes the AF mixture temporarily a bit petrol-rich . This rich mixture sustains the engine idle better in cold conditions . This idling allows the oil-pump to function and warms and circulates the oil from the sump up into all the parts and lubes them up - before you put load on the engine by riding off . This is beneficial to the engine and there is absolutely no harm in using choke for cold starts for the recomended durations (check your owners manual for this detail) . Many riders have this common mis-conception about choke usage , and avoid using it at all .
Asking silly questions is how most of the technology we use today was invented , so don't shy from asking questions . I am glad reply all ... and sad when I can't visit here because of other constraints .

[Honda_CBF]

@ mayank, if you've got a manual choke, which if used makes your engine rev higher than your liking then you can use half choke, or like 1/3rd choke. This way you can cold start an engine, at first crank that too without straining it

[mayank.travadi]

yes i have a manual choke lever and i pull it full if the bike doesnt start..however pulling the choke lever alone doesnt do the trick..i need to thumb start , twist the throttle along with pulling the choke lever for the choke to kick in

after 4-5 seconds of full choke i gradually lower it to half/one-third and then shut it off when i feel the engine wont stall..

actually i mistook that the bike over revs with choke as loading and with the common practice of warm up before riding..i thought engine gets loaded due to use of choke as its reving upto almost 4k rpm and since oil hasnt reached all the parts..i am causing damage....hence my reluctance to use choke as much as possible...

but if the oil from sump isnt pumped and circulated everywhere then how come its safe for engine to accept rich AFR and rev more?

or is it that there is always some oil on the cylinder walls and it is safe for the engine to rev without load on choke till the engine settles with a good temperature and can idle without stalling?


PS: @ blackthorn nice explanation there about gulping too much solid food and then having water explains it well enough