Engine Oils

[aargee]

These viscosity and temperature combinations always intrigue me

Count me in; I've to think 10 times on these lines; Damn!!! Engines, Desmo valves & mechanicals were easy to explain

Honda's previous w40...Indian conditions?

Please see my PS on the previous post; let me know if you'd like to me elaborate; like I said, it is potentially dangerous as it could trigger a brand war.

You mean to say 10W30 FS from Motul??

There's no 10W30 in Motul, but 10W40.

PS - Going to look for CBR rear tire now & will be back after a while

[ravi@17bhp]

Note - Just had a thought after submitting, its potential enough to start a brand war, but the moment it goes fiery, I'll stop; anyway the points are...
1. When quality goes up, the price goes up too & most people in our Nation are cost conscious
2. So, when price goes up no one buys the product & that's when someone strikes a balance between price & quality. So they sometimes try to use products that compromises on certain things but certainly helps to keep low costs.
3. What I mean is, the engine could operate optimally with a FS 10W30 (or 10W20 or whatever fine line), but, our people (N/A for enthusiasts) postpone regular service, use beyond normal usage neglecting to which the vehicle fries up & the product is bashed. So few manufacturers compensate this by using more than required, but cost effective solution to get such things done optimally.

Hope you got what I mean.

Logical!

[kishoremuthu]

How thick has the oil to be is more of an engineering question and all manufacturers would have thier own math in measuring it. I am not questioning that either. All I am trying to touch upon is IF 10W30 is indeed the choice of lube that is decided by and engineer and not a marketeer...

Do you think that Honda will just listen to the views of marketeers and prescribe something that will do no good to the engine? Because of which the entire effort put on developing a wonderful and reliable engine will go for a toss

There's no 10W30 in Motul, but 10W40.

There is a 10W30 but not sure if it is FS. It is mentioned as Technosynthese..

Motul 10W30

[ravi@17bhp]

Do you think that Honda will just listen to the views of marketeers and prescribe something that will do no good to the engine? Because of which the entire effort put on developing a wonderful and reliable engine will go for a toss

No one knows! Thats why this question.

[antz.bin]

[Horror]

Is castrol or shell better? I want to buy 20W40 engine oil for my honda twister.

[Honda_CBF]

Ok, now here's a chart from Honda too (HMSI) provided in Honda CBF 125 stunner's owner manual:

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/attachments/universal-threads/53296d1325753133-engine-oils-untitled.jpg

(Sorry for low Quality pic)

I think what mostly depends on oil viscosity to be used is the tolerances on which the engine is build and the temperature its used

And the best option to know why "they" shifted (from 20w40 to 10w30) is to ask "them", instead of guessing.. what say?

[psr]

Air cooled engine because they are air cooled has many hot spots in the combustion chamber and the cooling method does not guarantee temperature stability in the cylinder
Liquid cooled engines by virtue of a superior heat exchange medium, has a better control over the engine cylinder temperature...
So the engine oil for LC and Air cooled engines have to tackle different temperature range and so have to be different.
Air cooled engines require a thicker oil compared to LC for this reason.
A thinner oil allows engine internals to move more freely than a thicker oil and hence engine revs up faster....but also has the potential to leak through Piston rings if tolerances are not close .
Engine oil grade is determined with engine moving part stress quotient,compression,moving parts tolerances and hardness,and most importantly on the operating temperature..
Now as to why HH or Honda or any manufacturer had switched oil spec...my personal opinion is that there are two reasons.
1. Standardizing on a single spec to bring down holding of inventory..
2. By using thinner oil the engine is able to rev better , thereby gaining an edge over rivals in performance....
The life of a new bike with the first owner is mostly 2 years, because New Models are coming into the market,and the user want's to be one up on the other...even if it means adding extra spark plug..
Most advertisement these days for a Motorcycles mention the 0-60 time ,or words to that effect,and comparing it with rival manufacturer's figures.
So thin oil means better printable advertisement figures....
Just my thought.

[ravi@17bhp]

Ok, now here's a chart from Honda too (HMSI) provided in Honda CBF 125 stunner's owner manual:

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/attachments/universal-threads/53296d1325753133-engine-oils-untitled.jpg

(Sorry for low Quality pic)

I think what mostly depends on oil viscosity to be used is the tolerances on which the engine is build and the temperature its used

And the best option to know why "they" shifted (from 20w40 to 10w30) is to ask "them", instead of guessing.. what say?

Even the Dazzler's (CBF150) manual show the same chart.

Is castrol or shell better? I want to buy 20W40 engine oil for my honda twister.

Go with Shell, lot better than Castrol.

Air cooled engine because they are air cooled has many hot spots in the combustion chamber and the cooling method does not guarantee temperature stability in the cylinder
Liquid cooled engines by virtue of a superior heat exchange medium, has a better control over the engine cylinder temperature...
So the engine oil for LC and Air cooled engines have to tackle different temperature range and so have to be different.
Air cooled engines require a thicker oil compared to LC for this reason.
A thinner oil allows engine internals to move more freely than a thicker oil and hence engine revs up faster....but also has the potential to leak through Piston rings if tolerances are not close .
Engine oil grade is determined with engine moving part stress quotient,compression,moving parts tolerances and hardness,and most importantly on the operating temperature..
Now as to why HH or Honda or any manufacturer had switched oil spec...my personal opinion is that there are two reasons.
1. Standardizing on a single spec to bring down holding of inventory..
2. By using thinner oil the engine is able to rev better , thereby gaining an edge over rivals in performance....
The life of a new bike with the first owner is mostly 2 years, because New Models are coming into the market,and the user want's to be one up on the other...even if it means adding extra spark plug..
Most advertisement these days for a Motorcycles mention the 0-60 time ,or words to that effect,and comparing it with rival manufacturer's figures.
So thin oil means better printable advertisement figures....
Just my thought.

So, you mean a w40 grade would be safe for air-cooled engines in all conditions than a w30 oil, or am I missing something here.

[Honda_CBF]

Even the Dazzler's (CBF150) manual show the same chart.

Our Alto's chart is similar too, and of course its water cooled

Go with Shell, lot better than Castrol.

Agreed.

So, you mean a w40 grade would be safe for air-cooled engines in all conditions than a w30 oil, or am I missing something here.

At least me thinks the same, but for Indian condition

[antz.bin]

So, you mean a w40 grade would be safe for air-cooled engines in all conditions than a w30 oil, or am I missing something here.

What you missed was the BAL air-cooled engines requiring 20w50 I guess even Ducati (Air Cooled) Monster needs the same grade.

Otherwise, the chart Honda_CBF posted seems to suggest this. There has to be a chart on the CBR250R manual also!

@RG Please fill us in.

[ravi@17bhp]

What you missed was the BAL air-cooled engines requiring 20w50 I guess even Ducati (Air Cooled) Monster needs the same grade.

Otherwise, the chart Honda_CBF posted seems to suggest this. There has to be a chart on the CBR250R manual also!

@RG Please fill us in.

Bajaj has always been using the same w40 (for some) and w50 (for some) oils without changing them. So, I did not mention that.

[aargee]

There is a 10W30 but not sure if it is FS. It is mentioned as Technosynthese

Don't know; sorry Kishore

OK, now to Aargee's dismay, I will stick to Honda and Engine oils, but not to Bikes since the source of the chart is the Honda Civic Owners' Manual

Then don't pull my name!!!

@RG Please fill us in.

To your dismay, I'm voluntarily out of this discussion because...
1. I'm in need of rear tires for my CBR & I'm learning a whole lot of things; can't learn & participate in both Engine Oil & Tires at the same time
2. There's whole lot of information that learned in last 2 days & I don't know where & how to put in the forum; nothing great, but all of them are pure disappointments which makes me believe, no matter how much our economy grows, this b***** fr**** politicians/Govt/policies & not to mention the damn manufacturers too...will never let us grow!!!

Ciao
RG

[ravi@17bhp]

There is a 10W30 but not sure if it is FS. It is mentioned as Technosynthese..

Motul 10W30

Its semi-synthetic oil.

[psr]

So, you mean a w40 grade would be safe for air-cooled engines in all conditions than a w30 oil, or am I missing something here.

Yes ...The Karizma started off with 20w40 engine oil from 2003 till about 2006...
http://www.indiabike.com/roadtest/karizma_o/tech.htm