Helmets

[hypheni]

Re: Helmets

Why don't govt approve DOT / ECE now a days. Days have been changed so they should. But the question is do they know about DOT.

[Ganesh R Nair]

Re: Helmets

Do you guys can help to find a specific ls2 model ..that I want a ls2 celtic glossy white .it is not avaliable in our place so want your help to know whether its avalible on your place please inform or mail me on [email protected]

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[snehithpereira]

Re: Helmets

No way of fighting only we have 2 pay the bill what they are saying. ..and go on... only news paper or news can help us that showing the symbol that are verified and certified ...

Don't pay the fine right away, you have the right to go to the RTO and pay the fine, insist on paying it after you get challan and then explain the helmet situation to a senior officer at the RTO, I was in a similar situation recently (about a month back) and that worked for me.

Do you guys can help to find a specific ls2 model ..that I want a ls2 celtic glossy white .

Sent the picture to a friend who was visiting a couple of helmet stores at jc road B'lore. He confirmed that helmet paradise has it over there, unfortunately he forgot to take a quote but I don't think it should be over 3.2K

[Ganesh R Nair]

Re: Helmets

Thanks for the advice bro...will try next time ..

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[Ganesh R Nair]

Re: Helmets

Can reffer me the proper address of the place at bangalore.

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[snehithpereira]

Re: Helmets

Can reffer me the proper address of the place at bangalore.

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A simple search on google would have got you this :

Helmet Paradise
No.13/2, Opp To Urvashi Theatre,
H Siddaiah Road Cross, Lalbagh Road,
Bangalore - 560027

P.S: next time if you feel adventurous you could try the search thread option too

[B7ACKTHORN]

Re: Helmets

Ls2 is perfect design but in our area there problem with the police that it has no dot or ISI marks that is a serious thing...how can i solve that..?

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Just as a lighter note, tell them, I know Oommen Chandy and he's approved this DoT law, you're free to go.

Why don't govt approve DOT / ECE now a days. Days have been changed so they should. But the question is do they know about DOT.

It's purely politics, de-legitimizing or cannibalizing our own standard for an international standard is, what I think is kind of a prestige issue for the Indian Gov. You see ISI is in almost every crap out there, and guess what, it still is approved *crap* at least most of the times. But if you can try sticking ISI stickers or doing an ISI etching on your helmet, then you're set. It may sound crazy, but well, you have no hope.

Cheers!
VJ

[Ganesh R Nair]

Re: Helmets

Just as a lighter note, tell them, I know Oommen Chandy and he's approved this DoT law, you're free to go.



It's purely politics, de-legitimizing or cannibalizing our own standard for an international standard is, what I think is kind of a prestige issue for the Indian Gov. You see ISI is in almost every crap out there, and guess what, it still is approved *crap* at least most of the times. But if you can try sticking ISI stickers or doing an ISI etching on your helmet, then you're set. It may sound crazy, but well, you have no hope.

Cheers!
VJ

Oh after hearing this cops will say come on my boy there place were you see him....

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[hypheni]

Re: Helmets

Yes, I will try to get some ISI sticker or better I will try to paint same with white Marker.

[arihant]

Re: Helmets

Just as a lighter note, tell them, I know Oommen Chandy and he's approved this DoT law, you're free to go.



It's purely politics, de-legitimizing or cannibalizing our own standard for an international standard is, what I think is kind of a prestige issue for the Indian Gov. You see ISI is in almost every crap out there, and guess what, it still is approved *crap* at least most of the times. But if you can try sticking ISI stickers or doing an ISI etching on your helmet, then you're set. It may sound crazy, but well, you have no hope.

Cheers!
VJ

All crappy hemets in states have DOT too, by the way. The most strained test in DOT, AFAIK, is a 10 feet drop with a dummy head inside. The thing is, all countries make it harder for imported helmets to pass standards test. This is why imports here have a tough time getting ISI rating. If LS2 can go through a pain to partner and make it's products available here, why not work to get local standards approval? It is the same reason why Indian brands have tough time getting DOT approval. You can get $29 plastics DOT approved quite easily in US!

And I wouldn't expect cops to be familiar with 200 standards of different countries. Read the ISI regulations - ISI is an extremely strict standard. The problem is - the local cheap helmet makers just print the logo without passing the test. Not that they'll ever get caught :/

Also, the newer LS2's come with ISI.

Edit: I must also mention that DOT testing is done by companies themselves, not by authority; while ISI is performed at Bureau of Indian Standards.

[B7ACKTHORN]

Re: Helmets

All crappy hemets in states have DOT too, by the way. The most strained test in DOT, AFAIK, is a 10 feet drop with a dummy head inside. The thing is, all countries make it harder for imported helmets to pass standards test. This is why imports here have a tough time getting ISI rating. If LS2 can go through a pain to partner and make it's products available here, why not work to get local standards approval? It is the same reason why Indian brands have tough time getting DOT approval. You can get $29 plastics DOT approved quite easily in US!

And I wouldn't expect cops to be familiar with 200 standards of different countries. Read the ISI regulations - ISI is an extremely strict standard. The problem is - the local cheap helmet makers just print the logo without passing the test. Not that they'll ever get caught :/

Also, the newer LS2's come with ISI.

I think it's a little condescending. I should probably give a good knocking myself for continuing but I need to make sure the points are right. Each country has it's own dismayed helmets, no matter what standards are in force, and 90% of the time, it's design or poor fitment, build quality etc, not the very standard itself. Please read my answer once again. I've never mentioned ISI is an inferior standard, but it's the widespread use of the ISI mark and it's usage in such *inferior products*. Forget about a discerning consumer as you, since you know DoT and it's efficacy you can pretty much argue the point to a shopkeeper.

But what about common man, doesn't he have the same head, brain and body as you, and he needs the best,and that's where ISI fails to make a dent. I can vouch you 100% nowhere anywhere they will resell a plastic bucket with polystyrene coating branded as DoT that can be crushed with your bare hands. And if ISI is strict, where is the enforcement? Why is Studds harder and BLADE, ROCK all those local helmets branded as ISI sold easily crushable with your bare hands.

And with the current state of mind prevailing in India, a cop would say reopen a case if a victim survived with a DoT helmet rather he dies with a fake ISI helmet.

Abroad the laws are very strict and the laws to pass a motorcycling test is more than what one can imagine, let alone the helmet standards, gear standards etc. And the customer there is discernable to the buckets sold here as opposed to helmets sold elsewhere.

Cheers!
VJ

[arihant]

Re: Helmets

I think it's a little condescending. I should probably give a good knocking myself for continuing but I need to make sure the points are right. Each country has it's own dismayed helmets, no matter what standards are in force, and 90% of the time, it's design or poor fitment, build quality etc, not the very standard itself. Please read my answer once again. I've never mentioned ISI is an inferior standard, but it's the widespread use of the ISI mark and it's usage in such *inferior products*. Forget about a discerning consumer as you, since you know DoT and it's efficacy you can pretty much argue the point to a shopkeeper.

But what about common man, doesn't he have the same head, brain and body as you, and he needs the best,and that's where ISI fails to make a dent. I can vouch you 100% nowhere anywhere they will resell a plastic bucket with polystyrene coating branded as DoT that can be crushed with your bare hands. And if ISI is strict, where is the enforcement? Why is Studds harder and BLADE, ROCK all those local helmets branded as ISI sold easily crushable with your bare hands.

And with the current state of mind prevailing in India, a cop would say reopen a case if a victim survived with a DoT helmet rather he dies with a fake ISI helmet.

Abroad the laws are very strict and the laws to pass a motorcycling test is more than what one can imagine, let alone the helmet standards, gear standards etc. And the customer there is discernable to the buckets sold here as opposed to helmets sold elsewhere.

Cheers!
VJ

But if people start demanding DOT frequently, I can guarantee you the cheaper fakes with counterfeit that logo just as easily - only this time with no Indian law available to even punish them when caught. That's why you need local standards!

[xpranav]

Re: Helmets

Allow me to add a few words in line with the discussion here

As we know DOT belongs to the specs laid by respective authority in USA. A country where a general middle class has at least two cars, one for common household purposes and the other for special purposes like vacations, occasions etc. I also never came to hear/read of someone riding a 100 cc commuter bike in USA. That means owning a bike (read performance bike) holds something special if not much in that part of the world. And therefore, the markets related are not mass markets as we witness in India, which makes me believe that the chances of fakes flooding the market is relatively very less.

Edit: I must also mention that DOT testing is done by companies themselves, not by authority; while ISI is performed at Bureau of Indian Standards.

Kindly provide a source to back your point, it will be a learning experience for me at least

[arihant]

Re: Helmets

Allow me to add a few words in line with the discussion here

As we know DOT belongs to the specs laid by respective authority in USA. A country where a general middle class has at least two cars, one for common household purposes and the other for special purposes like vacations, occasions etc. I also never came to hear/read of someone riding a 100 cc commuter bike in USA. That means owning a bike (read performance bike) holds something special if not much in that part of the world. And therefore, the markets related are not mass markets as we witness in India, which makes me believe that the chances of fakes flooding the market is relatively very less.



Kindly provide a source to back your point, it will be a learning experience for me at least

Here - Motorcycle Helmet Standards Explained: DOT, ECE 22.05 & Snell

NHTSA does not test helmets against the DOT standards before they can claim DOT certification; rather, each helmet manufacturer marketing their helmets for road use in the U.S. must test and self-certify the models they want to sell and then permanently affix the “DOT” emblem signifying compliance with FMVSS 218.

NHTSA does check helmets they acquire from markets, but this sometimes happens so late that the model being tested isn't even sold by the manufacturer anymore. Moreover, DOT testing is extremely easy to pass even for so called buckets. It is also extremely outdated and was initially made for the highways. ISI, on the other hand, is a much stricter version - requires 7 different ways of testing the hardness compared to 1 in DOT. ISI also has standards for sound, materials used and the bling companies can put in helmets - making them safer for city riding.

If one is buying a DOT helmet that is less than 2-3 years old, chances are nobody except the company tested it. They usually don't even know of new brands unless there are a few crashes with that brand on a highway. Also, the NHTSA never bothers to check the cheap fake companies around so there is a flush of crap DOT's in US. As long as the guy selling coconut shell tied to a rope can drop it off 10 feet without an orange squishing inside it (exaggeration, of course), he can legally put DOT for as long as he isn't noticed by authorities. Thankfully they never reach Indian market. In the US, it is the brand you trust, the standard, unless it is Snell (which is very rare and only on super expensive helmets), is of less value and more of a way to get out of ticket. Some brands (like Icon) advertise how they tested their helmets in real simulated crashes.

Look on the link below about an appeal rejected because NHTSA did not test a helmet (Fulmer AF50) till 2010 when it was launched and DOT certified by company in 2002!

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/10a0393p-06.pdf

[Legend Racer]

Re: Helmets

@arihant

thats informative. but now im again in doubt. should i go for DOT SOL or some ISI vega or studd?

can anyone give a link on how helmets are given ISI? now we know how a helmet gets DOT or ECE or SNELL. but ISI? just wondering how many are really confused with choices after reading the certification details.