the funny thing is i have all the three....i mean i used to have the old 1st generation zma...now i have the 220 and r15...sold of my fz and shine though...so i found according to my needs and personal experiences that 220 is good...

@TS: plz do post how were your TDs after you have taken them...ok

sell both and buy the 250R

It can take the beating. But a bad hit at anything beyod 100 kmph may bend the rim badly.

In our hypothetical scene atleast this bike does a 135 and maxes out at 145. The ZMR cant do anything more than 125.

It is a comfortable medium speed tourer.

Waiting for a TD of your future Ninja!

Yes its not cruising. I accept. But atleast it can do speeds of over 135 kmph with still something left!

Agreed.

Now i accept.


I want to put it in simple terms.
The most comfortable cruising rpm for any engine would be the rpm range between its peak torque rpm and peak power rpm. Any rpm above this puts a lot of stress on the engine.

Everyone knows that zma is a relaxed tourer and the zmr is expected to anything much better. It can cruise comfortably at about 100 kmph and maxes out at 125 kmph. In simple terms the most comfortable cruising speed for it would be around 100-110 kmph.
The P220 is a bit rougher engine. Few may like this character and others may hate it. I personally dont like long stroke (bullets, hayabusa, zma etc.) low-revving engines. A P220 maxes out at about 145 kmph. Therefore it can be easily concluded that it can cruise at about speeds of about 125 kmph with ease and still has lot of juice left.
At 125 kmph zmr's engine would be at its max, nearing the rev-limiter in top gear. A P220 would be at around 8500rpm and still can rev till 11k or speeds of about 145 kmph+.
Now which among the 2 can cruise more comfortably at higher speeds?

Having said this i dont want the discussion to go back to square 1 and confuse the TS. Everyone knows that a zma engine is more refined than a pulsar. But whats the use when it cant do higher speeds?
This is the whole point of the discussion. A better high speed comfortable machine.

@ TS
I read somewhere among your posts that u have taken a TD of zma and dint like it. I suggest go for the R15. It will keep you happy and revving.
If you would like to have lots of low and mid range power go for P220.
But have TD's of both and then decide.

PS- Somewhere came across a post that P220 dtsi doesnt have high end power. Would like to clarify that a P220 dtsi cant keep up with a P220 FI in low end power and can make it eat dust only at high end. But whatever it is for high end power R15 is fun!

Rahul, anything over 100 kmph on Indian roads is overspeeding (defined by safety) and is not safe. Cruising means sane speeds with relaxed riding. You can not say a comfortable cruiser at 100 kmph is a waste. Any bike that can cruise at 100 kmph on Indian roads is very good.

The above is my perception and opinion.

P220 at 125 kmph means the Speedo shows around 135 kmph. Going to true 145 kmph takes very very long time if at all it goes. The engine is not definitely comfortable at those speeds for long time.

ya right....but not now....after the price of 250r goes down,then am considering it...but no way gonna sell my 220

@ ravi anna

that means above 100 in ninja is overspeeding and not cruising when its cruise speed is 130 to 140kmph...

thats what i think it should be, most relaxed
though anything above peak power rpm at a sustained level will put strain, no two ways about it,

Anything at peak is not relaxed.

LOL!!!

relaxed, refined, cruise, torque, peakpower. revlimit and what not.

Go for New Bullet 500cc...its has torque (42Nm*), power (28bhp*) and top speed of 130kmph claimed by company, rear disc brake, new gen tires, FI.


* Approx values.

^^^
and with that off road exhaust the top speed is around 140 as claimed by BI

Too Much of Confusion

I see too much of Confusion here.
Every 1 is biased basing on their experiences.

ZMR is ruled out by the thread starter due to the lack of Fun Factor.
So Please don't discuss anymore about that.
The thread starter requires proper indication about which Bike between P220 & R15.

I'll answer some questions which may help him in the decision.

Quality of R15 & its spares - Top Notch.
The VFM of R15 - YES.
For the price U get a very Good package.
The Spares are also of very good quality.

Quality of 220 & its spares - Normal.
The VFM of 220 - Yes, YES, YES.
For only 80k U get a beast.
However U don get the quality of R15.

The R15 Rims are not bad.
It has lower profile soft compound tires so naturally the rim gets the hit in a Big pothole when U R at a speed.
My 220's rear Rim got bent when I used a R15 front tire only for 200 kms.
This should tell U something about the rim Problem.
Its not the RIMS which are faulty but the lower profile of the tires.

If you can try to check with Maruti People -
The early versions of Zens used to come with 13" rims with lower profile tires.
But the Rims used to get bent frequently so they changed them to 12" rims with higher profile.
The Car lost its handling due to this & sales declined.

My Synopsis -

Speed - P220
Torque - P220
Seating Posture: purely personal feel!
Cheap Spares for routine: R15
Cheap Spares for accident: P220!
Carb Tuning - P220
OEM Lights - P220
Stability - R15 in normal tarmac with no Cross winds , 220 off road & when there are Cross winds.
Braking - R15
Cornering - R15

The Braking & stability of R15 are Partly due to its excellent Tires.
I had the R15's front tire as the rear tire of my 220.
It provided way better grip than a Michelin SIRAC on tarmac.
Now we have a problem of those tires totally out of Stock.

The R15 can be compared to Unicorn or P150 when it is in city in low speeds.
Some times it feels slower than them.
Its a high revving engine with lack of any performance in low end.
But wring the throttle & U simply start flying.

As Samarth Said

if u buy a R15..u will miss the low end/raw power of 220 n RTR..
if u buy 220..u will miss R15s handling n braking..
if u buy the RTR.. u will love ridin it..buy miss the big bike feel..

For 100-120 Speeds Both R15 & 220 are good.
The 220 gives U more Fun in those speeds.
The R15 Gives U More confidence in cornering.

Change the tires of 220 to the Tires of R15.
U'll get almost similar confidence.

In the end take a TD of both the Bikes.
Don't be fooled just by a 1km Ride.
Ask them to take it for a longer ride.
Use it in the exact conditions which intend to U use everyday.
Then U'll know which is better for U.

^^^

Few things i wanna correct .

Stability - R15 in normal tarmac with no Cross winds , 220 off road & when there are Cross winds.

R15 is amazing even with any cross winds.

The Braking & stability of R15 are Partly due to its excellent Tires.
Change the tires of 220 to the Tires of R15.
U'll get almost similar confidence.
FALSE.

Its the chassis & suspension , R15 even with a shittiest tire handles better than the 220.




Thread starter -
My 2 cents . U want to be quick, enjoy torque in the city , lovely lighting.
Get the 220 , nothing beats it . Bang on the buck .

If u are a person who hits the track , and wants to enjoy biking with a smile and a bike that forgives ur mistakes . Its the R15 .

Santa

Deltabox Frame--check
mono cross link type suspension--check
hope no one calls them a gimmick

the suspension is pretty rigid & not fidgety at all, cornering is(can't describe it, would be offensive on a public forum)

and rest has been said by Santa

@ santoosh

I'm sorry I may be wrong.
But this is what I feel as per my LIMITED USAGE of the R15.

Any day R15 is a way better Bike than the P220.
Not creating a Brand war here but thats the fact ( I own a P220 ).
Only low end grunt was the sore issue for me.
Also It got released after my Purchase of 220.

Dude Im the last person to be brand specific . Ask any 1 of the guys who know me personally , they ll tell u.

All i meant to say way , u ll like the R15 only after a long term usage , its not an instant love.

PS . I dont mind buying the 220 even now.
Santa

I really like the R15 for its Technology & everything else.
But as I said only the Lack of Low end grunt prevented me from selling the 220 & buying the R15.
I know that U R not brand specific.
Even I'm not supporting any brand here.
But I don't need to ride the R15 any more as I already love that a lot

@ TS
I think santa gave the best reply for U in a simple way.