The Official Pune Offline Meet(G2G) Thread

[Hyperion]

@Shrinath.. On detailed studying of your case,



... (P.S.: I tail ).

It seems to be a pretty simple case of
1. Target Fixation
2. Grabbing at the front. (exacerbated by the rider graduating from a drum, which requires a handful of lever to be effective, to a disc)

I think Shrinath is the best judge of what happened. People generally remember most details in slow-mo.

[TenHut]

OMG OMG THE LEGENDARY HYDRO ( kids are told his stories these days)
has posted.

Alas...we have been graced by his honorary presence.
The revered and very venerated Hydro is my personal Hero.
ALL HAIL HYDRO

[TenHut]

It seems to be a pretty simple case of
1. Target Fixation
2. Grabbing at the front. (exacerbated by the rider graduating from a drum, which requires a handful of lever to be effective, to a disc)

I think Shrinath is the best judge of what happened. People generally remember most details in slow-mo.

yep...shrinath is the best guy to judge his crash. No one else can judge it for him.
At its face value it just looks like he endoed his bike. Period.

@Antz..I didnt not crash because I over-leaned the bike
Rockerzz's legendary breather pipe crash couldnt have occured due to overleaning either. Tho I dont know why and how it occured it cannot be over-leaning.
There is nothing called over-leaning when cornering. I crashed because I made throttle input errors. Rockerz most prolly did the same..you crash because of your input...either throttle..or brakes...or wieght on handle bars...its next to impossible to crash because of lean angles.

[Praful]

----
OT .. to the above ..
just back from a 2000+ km ride .. Pune-Goa-Gokarn-Mangalore and back .. with my wife on my new p220f

Part in blue - Nice! Good to know you have lifetime companion for long rides henceforth!

Part in red - WTF WHAT? When did you come over to the dark side?

[inder.cool]

LOL I agree! I have had only one Kutta come under the wheel of my bike on my return from Bhandardara Lake and he was not very fourtunate to survive the weight of 148Kgs(bike)+myself..

Exactly my point!!

----
OT .. to the above ..
just back from a 2000+ km ride .. Pune-Goa-Gokarn-Mangalore and back .. with my wife on my new p220f

Nice good long ride Praveen!!

[niks_devil666]

group riding

Lead : A experienced rider who is good at leading the group. Conversant with maps and route. Has good navigation skills. Understands the average speed of the group and "sets" the pace for the ride.

Tail/sweeper : experienced and the fastest (yet safest) rider amongst the group conversant with the route. Should always stay at the back and within close range of the guy ahead of him.

@Srinath : heard abt the incident , get well soon. I agree with hyperion on the way it could have happened. hope to see you back on the r15 soon.

@hydro : tussi great ho

[Incubus]

IMO, when ever riding in a group, the lead rider and the sweeper, both should be senior/responsible riders and should be aware of the route to destination.

Lead has the task to guide the convoy via correct route, keeping an eye in the RVM to check if everything's fine behind and to alert the riders following him about any unforeseen incidences/obstacles like cattle, cross-roads, speed breakers and many more.

Why the sweeper should stick to his position all the time?
1) If any of the rider's bike, riding in between the lead and sweep, has a breakdown and stalls then after rectifying the problem the rider won't be lost if he doesn't know the route. Sweeper will guide him correctly.

2) If any of the riders meets with a crash, the sweeper being a senior/responsible rider will take appropriate and correct actions quickly, which an otherwise new rider will find difficult to do and be scared. Also the one who tails the group MUST have contact numbers of atleast 50% of the riders in the group. So that he can inform the rest of the group bout the incident.

3) As usual I was assigned the task of tailing the group during last year's Lavasa mega meet. One of the bikes in the group was Honda Activa and I still remember that I stuck to my place right till the destination. At times I had to ride at speeds below 40-50 kmph but I did it.

4) Also the sweeper gets a good view of the riders riding in front of him. being a senior/responsible rider he can detect the flaws in someone's riding still and if it's that urgent and necessary can move ahead, co-ordinate with the lead, stop the convoy and brief the entire group about the mistakes to avoid a possible crash.

These are the basic images of a Lead and Sweep rider in my mind. Other seniors please correct/add to these points if necessary.

Valid points Ketan.
There should always be a briefing done with all the riders in attendance on safety and importance of sticking to one lane.
The Lead and Sweeper should be identified and communicated to the group. The lead has to practice proper overtaking maneuvers by use of indicators and signals thereby abiding to the lead by example concept (management gyanJ)
The role of a sweeper is the most IMPORTANT one as he needs to be patient, observant and helpful in times of distress. It is a challenging role for a sweeper to give feedback/correct a fellow rider in a subtle but positive way.

[antz.bin]

yep...shrinath is the best guy to judge his crash. No one else can judge it for him.
At its face value it just looks like he endoed his bike. Period.

@Antz..I didnt not crash because I over-leaned the bike
Rockerzz's legendary breather pipe crash couldnt have occured due to overleaning either. Tho I dont know why and how it occured it cannot be over-leaning.
There is nothing called over-leaning when cornering. I crashed because I made throttle input errors. Rockerz most prolly did the same..you crash because of your input...either throttle..or brakes...or wieght on handle bars...its next to impossible to crash because of lean angles.

Fine.. those were my noobish comments(about your and rockrz's crash) (and withdrawal symptoms probably kicking in).. but you did agree to the fact that it was in fact your error in input that caused your crash(which is exactly my point). In my long winding post, I was only trying to help him out as he told me on the phone that he had blacked out from the time he left Moto-Cafe (a few minutes before the crash) to the time he woke up the next morning. During the blackout period, he rode to balewadi from bavdhan, crashed his bike, went home, was taken to the hospital for first aid, had his dinner and slept off.

According to me.. over leaning is when your tyres give in as you have leaned too far and you have no more of the 'C' left to get any grip. I have no other definition for it. Pardon my noobishness. I am only trying to educate myself.

@Ketan, Niks, Incubus.. thanks for the pointers

[Incubus]

Err.. how / why Mangalore ?? .. I just went to Mangalore last week from Pune .. road near Bhatkal is horrible for about 5 kms but rest of it is doable.

For Munnar, I strongly suggest you do Udumalaipet (TN) to Munnar .. it's a very very scenic route. You could go down further on NH-17 and enter TN through Palakkad.

Not sure if you are riding from Pune. Alternate routes if you aren't doign NH-17/mangalore would be... to Blr - Kanakapura - Satyamangalam - Coimbatore - udumalaipat - Munnar .... very scenic .. else, you can take NH-4 and go through Salem, but its longer.

----
OT .. to the above ..
just back from a 2000+ km ride .. Pune-Goa-Gokarn-Mangalore and back .. with my wife on my new p220f

Firstly hats off to both of you on your accomplished adventure..Awaiting a detailed log with pics

I am actually going to visit friends in Mangalore and would continue my journey from there. I will be doing a night ride from Pune via NH4 (lack of trust with the avaliability of tarmac on NH17). I would prefer a longer route as long as the road is good (as I dont want to face the risk of getting my wheel rim bent on a long ride)

[Devilpulsarian]

I love all xbhpians.........

and yes that includes you too Tenhut....

I love this thread...

I love Antz analysis....

I love Vishwas' pricks....

I am on a loving spree....!!!

Someone please take me on a ride....

[ROCKRZ]

@Shrinath.. On detailed studying of your case, from your oral and written statements, I come to 2 conclusions about the probable reasons for your crash and how it could have been avoided.


Theory #1:
You were riding at some 'unknown to us'(assuming <80 because you are running in) speed. When you saw the dog come closer, the dog presumably was somewhere to you right and in front (in clock directions.. somewhere between 12'o clock and 3'o clock) My guess would be, it was somewhere close to 1-1.30 'when you saw it'.

So, when you saw the aforementioned dog, you paniced and braked as hard as you could, in the process the rear end left the ground (which clearly means you braked waaay to hard). Anyways, the dog hits the rear wheel of your bike which it would'nt(because it would have gone behind the bike and not crashed into the rear wheel assuming you were doing >20kmph) have if you hadn't braked as hard as you did. The cause of crash was was not the dog but your miscalculation / overbraking / misjudgement.

Solution: Nurse your wounds, think over what happened, take steps so that such an errors can be avoided.

Suggested steps:
1. Practise panic braking in a cotrolled environment where some unsuspecting motorist won't rear-end you when you are practicing.
2. Never ride too close to the devider on a 4-lane. Always ride 6 inches to the right of the middle marker of your lane( i.e. 6 inches into the fast lane)
3. Upgrade headlights because most probable cause of such accidents is because you did not spot the dog in time.

Theory #2:
As per your phone call yesterday, you told me that you had blacked out after your crash so I assume you have no way of remembering what exactly happened and are relying on eyewitness accounts of your crash for any and all aforementioned crash details. It can be safely assumed that all the other details being correct, the dog in fact crashed into your front wheel (and not the rear) which led to all the drama of the rear wheel lifting off and you falling over on your head. And in that case, the only explanation can be made is that you failed to spot the dog in time for you to safely negotiate your nemesis.

The only way to restart riding confidently after any crash is to put all the blame of your fall on yourself and on nothing else. The fact that you had a fall is your own fault in some way or the other. The only thing you can do now is think over what 'you' did wrong in all this and try not to get caught in such scenarios again using your wisdom from this one.

Do not think that I am picking on you when I say it is 'your' fault when 'you' fall, this rule applies to all of us so the sooner we realise this the better. Since I have joined xBHP Pune, Rishabh crashed @Bhandardara (and many other times ) because he failed to spot the pothole in front of him (because he didn't upgrade his lighting), same case with Ashu on the RTR (Kashedi); TenHut('blade) and Rockerzzz(legendary titanium breather pipe crash) crashed at Lavasa because they overleaned, same case with Sudo @ Amba ghat; Satyen(un-geared ), Praful Tripathy and I crashed because we did not gauge pedestarian psychology very well before commiting into whatever we were doing on the road. The only thing we learn from this is to be more careful next time, our stars may not be so favourable next time.

P.S.: These are only some of the many many crashes we have seen / read about around us. Some crashes are more horrific than others but it is a good idea to keep count of all of your major / minor crashes / falls so you know what you are up to and how safe is your riding for yourself. If you think you are crashing too much, it is time you took a break from riding all kinds of 2-wheelers for a couple of months. (Applies to all of us.)

@DK, NV, Countrock, MG etc. I assure you that in all xBHP where new / unknown riders ride with the regular members, members do take the trouble of communicating the rules of the game to the newbies in advance. If such a thing is missed, I myself have stopped many a rides from proceeding any further than a couple of Kms so that all instructions can be made clear to everyone. Also, even if such a breifing happens prior to the start of the ride, it is not necessary that everybody will follow all instructions (maybe due to his inability to understand or earlier riding habits) and in such a case, leader / sweeper / senior members should not hesitate to stop 'all the riders'/ 'riders in question' so that the instructions and their seriousness to the group can be fully understood by everyone.

General query @ Senior members (NV / Niks / Satyen / DK / Ketan / MG etc.) Is it necessary for the tail/sweeper to be at the back end of the group 'at all times' during the ride? Because in my opinion it isn't as long as the sweeper can check on all the riders every couple of minutes. The ground rules need to be made right here so there are no conflicts on the road. Anyways, the sweeper is not averse to breakdown either so he has every right to go ahead if he doesn't feel comfortable. (P.S.: I tail ).

wow!!!!

no wonder that you are doing masters in engineering.. you have a strong theory here...

just my thoughts for the tailing and leading bit... IMO, the slowest riders should always remain close to the lead positions (not necessarily the leaders of the ride).. the reason is that since the slowest member actually controlls the re grouping intervals, it is just as good if they lead. also, since the fastest members are at the last, if there is any problem, they can easily catchup with the leading buggers and inform them...

if the fast riders feel irritated by the slow riding, they can rip ahead, cool their heels and wait for the rest of the group.. this has been adopted by the mumbai group

[darkknight]

Yup. Shrinath wears his jacket all the time but unfortunately, due to an error in jacket design, it does not cover his head.

ROFLMAO-literally

[QUOTE=antz.bin;543609

General query @ Senior members (NV / Niks / Satyen / DK / Ketan / MG etc.) Is it necessary for the tail/sweeper to be at the back end of the group 'at all times' during the ride? Because in my opinion it isn't as long as the sweeper can check on all the riders every couple of minutes. The ground rules need to be made right here so there are no conflicts on the road. Anyways, the sweeper is not averse to breakdown either so he has every right to go ahead if he doesn't feel comfortable. (P.S.: I tail ).[/QUOTE]

now to the serious part.
Anant what happened when pune guys rode was a different thing & best discussed offline.this has happened earlier & will happen again & again with a certain group.

I was lead yesterday of over 40 bikes--it was clearly made understood by sunny that for photography & also for a relative high number of new members not to exceed 70 kph at any time.
even the ducatis & the MT were in the middle slot

many a regular riders were bored but stuck to the rule & it was a beautiful formation ride to look,ride & photograph.

ketan inadvertantly always ends up as tail as he has the confidence & no false ego.in any given condition the tail should not overtake.

as for incident happening with the sweeper , a rule what we follow is every rider looks in rvm for the one person directly behind him.that automatically sets the pace & covers the case of any incident occuring.

Additional input by OF sir was once decided never leave your spot ,even in traffic suppose you get a window on left side as anyways you are again goin to fall in formation there's no need to overtake the guy in front.
this doesnot refer to 7-8 guys who have ridden each other with long & are pretty convesant with each rider's skills

@srinathlease learn from one of the videos by OF sir in xbhp talks on how to "spot" & react .some of us have unkowingly or knowingly developed this over a period of time & is very helpful.Not that it will completely avoid an accident but will go a long way in improving one's skill.

[satyenpoojary]

Err.. how / why Mangalore ?? .. I just went to Mangalore last week from Pune .. road near Bhatkal is horrible for about 5 kms but rest of it is doable.

For Munnar, I strongly suggest you do Udumalaipet (TN) to Munnar .. it's a very very scenic route. You could go down further on NH-17 and enter TN through Palakkad.

Not sure if you are riding from Pune. Alternate routes if you aren't doign NH-17/mangalore would be... to Blr - Kanakapura - Satyamangalam - Coimbatore - udumalaipat - Munnar .... very scenic .. else, you can take NH-4 and go through Salem, but its longer.

----
OT .. to the above ..
just back from a 2000+ km ride .. Pune-Goa-Gokarn-Mangalore and back .. with my wife on my new p220f

Congrats saar on your marriage! Glad to know that your wife enjoys the bike trip (or so I would selfishly-conveniently assume!) and congrats on the new p220 too! and I am glad it also copes up with your demanding rides

We are doing the same route this new year, so thanks for the recce and do let us know of the road conditions

Tail/sweeper : experienced and the fastest (yet safest) rider amongst the group conversant with the route. Should always stay at the back and within close range of the guy ahead of him.

+1 to all thats been said so far, and just a few other points,
1) it is recommended that the Sweeper has the contact info of the leader and can call\alert him in case of a mishap and stop the rest of the group if needed.
2) Its better if the sweeper has the first aid kit and the know how of how to use it

[antz.bin]

if the fast riders feel irritated by the slow riding, they can rip ahead, cool their heels and wait for the rest of the group.. this has been adopted by the mumbai group

I would change the 'rip' to 'zip'. Anyways, thats what I had started doing.. but now I know from the suggestions I should be more patient with the others when I am tailing.

the slowest riders should always remain close to the lead positions (not necessarily the leaders of the ride).. the reason is that since the slowest member actually controlls the re grouping intervals, it is just as good if they lead. also, since the fastest members are at the last, if there is any problem, they can easily catchup with the leading buggers and inform them...

+1. Good strategy @Kurkur you ride 2nd from now on .

@Senior members, when I asked about leading - tailing, I asked it w.r.t. 5-8 riders. Because I know I have to behave myself if I have a zillion bikes (including non xbhp ones) to take care of ahead of me. And anyways, I wont be tailing such a group anyways as I am not such a senior/responsible a member as yet .

@Vishwas uncle.. nobody can take my spot from me

@All How was the Ducati G2G? *closes his ears and starts humming because doesn't want to hear*

[dis-is-sid]

G2G this wednesday @ Roopali ????

topic - ShrinathJi's most recent crash and an in-depth analysis on how to brake(oh yes it all comes back to braking yet AGAIN)!!!