The Official Mumbai Offline Meet(G2G) Thread

[Karthik Mathur (Orange)]

I have a question, what is ATGATT?

[HarshitTailor]

I have a question, what is ATGATT?

All the gears all the time

[niks_devil666]

When we started riding in 2006 and started doing xbhp rides , the only thing mandatory was
1.Helmet
2.Any thick jacket (preferably armoured or leather)
3.Shoes
4.jeans (no shorts or 3/4ths)

We used to ride safely and the leads and the sweep would take care of the group. If the sweep would see anyone riding dangerously he used to be warned as soon as possible abt his bad techniques or maneuvers.

How many crashes did we have on these gazillion rides? Zero !

Riding sanely and within ones limit is of more importance than full riding gear. And once people start coming on rides , they will see the usage and importance of riding gear and slowly and steadily start buying more gear. You guys can start with basic gear and let the people understand and feel the need for ATGATT. This will help you in getting more people onboard for rides.

........my 2 cents on the topic being discussed

I have a question, what is ATGATT?

Its All the gear all the time

[rkakkar]

+1,000,000

I think all that happens with a riding gear mandate is that people who don't want to wear them for a number of reasons (or who have pillions of the fairer sex who feel claustrophobic in helmets or don't want to ruin their hair) circumvent the system by organizing personal xbhp-flavoured rides and to be honest I'd rather have them riding with a group of experienced riders than riding in small packs that are completely clueless of a group riding culture. Hopefully riding with a group will allow them to experience the culture, see the benefits (be it of a group safety protocol or a riding gear protocol) and they will subscribe to it intuitively instead of being forced to circumvent the system and making fatal mistakes. And yes, without gear they are still exposed to the elements but frankly they are better off with a group sensitized to their safety than riding in small clueless packs. We will never stop them from riding, but maybe they can learn by our example.

And if they don't, well there's nothing any of us can do.

Drive dangerously, but do it with us? wow.

One of the things that makes me appreciate xBHP is their focus on safety. Don't change that now. Be it for a 20 km ride or a 2000km one. I remember someone had put a hilarious post on this in the riding gears thread that "if you fall in the US you will get hurt, but not in Kerala?!" Irrespective of how "sanely" you would be driving, even if you follow every single rule to the T, even if the RTO gives you a gold medal and the first born child of the officer, you cannot account for the idiot next to you in the Indica. I think we can apply the same for short vs long rides.

Btw, Satyen I had elbow and knee guards on my first ride

Over and out.

[rachitkohli]

IMO too guys without riding gear should be allowed atleast for a small g2g to experiment or give them exposure of the riding gears that exist & how they feel.
This is merely based on my experience Back in the old days, a thick jacket, gloves & helmet where mandatory things. Due to this, I could participate in some rides with a leather jacket, helmet, gloves & see some people in gears. This started influencing me, without anyone preaching. On such rides, I realized what the heck is a Riding Jacket with CE approved armors. Never had a clue about the knee pads, etc.! As I never knew anyone before xbhp using such stuff's.
Then only I thought of procuring a Riding jacket for myself & could understand the importance of it. And then followed the remaining gears. Today, I use it everyday though. I have many of my friends who aint a part of xbhp or any such communities, but share equal passion towards riding. Even they saw, realized & now each of them have full set of riding gears. Though it took some time, but am glad they today know the importance of this safety apparels, may it be any reason.
There are many ways to learn or educate. Sometimes its done by theory in the books, or sometimes its done via pictures. Similarly many riders like me can understand the value of this gears only by seeing them, meeting people geared up, or hearing stories about how a gear saved them.! This is how I met the 'W', I learnt & then the things Changed

[Karthik Mathur (Orange)]

One of the things that makes me appreciate xBHP is their focus on safety. Don't change that now. Be it for a 20 km ride or a 2000km one. I remember someone had put a hilarious post on this in the riding gears thread that "if you fall in the US you will get hurt, but not in Kerala?!" Irrespective of how "sanely" you would be driving, even if you follow every single rule to the T, even if the RTO gives you a gold medal and the first born child of the officer, you cannot account for the idiot next to you in the Indica. I think we can apply the same for short vs long rides.

Over and out.

Totally agree!

[satyenpoojary]

Drive dangerously, but do it with us? wow.

One of the things that makes me appreciate xBHP is their focus on safety. Don't change that now. Be it for a 20 km ride or a 2000km one. I remember someone had put a hilarious post on this in the riding gears thread that "if you fall in the US you will get hurt, but not in Kerala?!" Irrespective of how "sanely" you would be driving, even if you follow every single rule to the T, even if the RTO gives you a gold medal and the first born child of the officer, you cannot account for the idiot next to you in the Indica. I think we can apply the same for short vs long rides.

Btw, Satyen I had elbow and knee guards on my first ride

Over and out.

Kakkar: You are still not getting it. We aren’t saying drive dangerous and with us. We are saying drive sane, and let us teach you how.

Riding full throttle on the roads doesn’t make one a safe rider, at the same time riding at 60KMPH on the first lane with a barrage of vehicles behind isn’t safe either.
Safety is NOT the gear that you wear, safety is the attitude you ride with. While these things are complimenting, they aren’t supplementary to each other.

And no matter what, we would still be wearing riding gears and continue to recommend others to do so. It’s just that we do not want to shun people.

People still fall. Gears or no gears. Just that gears give you an opportunity to be safe, that doesnt mean that people who do not have gears SHOULD NOT have the opportunity to learn to be safe. By impossing a diktat we are doing that. We are shunning these people away. WE are creating this divide.

[chiragwarm]

I support Satyen.
I've been desperate for 200KMS official xBhp rides but not been able to do it because I don't have a riding jacket or even a thick jacket.
I support him for one more reason i.e. my mother felt that I'm going on a race or riding with some rowdies when I 1st borrowed a jacket for a Long ride. I'll try to convince her & ride with basic gears that I own & come back home safe & on the other hand fulfill my riding passion. After few short rides she'll get it that xBhpians are all nice people. I'm just 19 plus my father is an NRI, so she's correct with what she says. I tell her stories when people were AGAT during crash & were safe so eventually she'll understand & voluntarily sponsor for gears I don't have currently & let me ride more regularly.

This is my story.

[Karthik Mathur (Orange)]

I support Satyen.
I've been desperate for 200KMS official xBhp rides but not been able to do it because I don't have a riding jacket or even a thick jacket.
I support him for one more reason i.e. my mother felt that I'm going on a race or riding with some rowdies when I 1st borrowed a jacket for a Long ride. I'll try to convince her & ride with basic gears that I own & come back home safe & on the other hand fulfill my riding passion. After few short rides she'll get it that xBhpians are all nice people. I'm just 19 plus my father is an NRI, so she's correct with what she says. I tell her stories when people were AGAT during crash & were safe so eventually she'll understand & voluntarily sponsor for gears I don't have currently & let me ride more regularly.

This is my story.

Waise at place where my parents have bought the bike for me just for city purpose, they fail to understand the whole point behind biking. But luckily for me they are impressed with anything that improves safety so if I tell such a rule is there it's a plus point.

[rkakkar]

Kakkar: You are still not getting it. We aren’t saying drive dangerous and with us. We are saying drive sane, and let us teach you how.

Riding full throttle on the roads doesn’t make one a safe rider, at the same time riding at 60KMPH on the first lane with a barrage of vehicles behind isn’t safe either.
Safety is NOT the gear that you wear, safety is the attitude you ride with. While these things are complimenting, they aren’t supplementary to each other.

And no matter what, we would still be wearing riding gears and continue to recommend others to do so. It’s just that we do not want to shun people.

People still fall. Gears or no gears. Just that gears give you an opportunity to be safe, that doesnt mean that people who do not have gears SHOULD NOT have the opportunity to learn to be safe. By impossing a diktat we are doing that. We are shunning these people away. WE are creating this divide.

Looks like it was mistake on my part as my post highlighted the driving part and not the safety. You have to drive sanely whether you wear gears or not. That goes without saying. But I still say let the divide be. Its for the greater good. Alankar spoke of riders looking out for other riders, let us look out for the newbies by asking them to come along with the bare minimum of helmet, knee pads, elbow guards and not a very expensive pair of gloves. The total cost would be less than the fuel cost of 2 rides to Pune and back (barring the helmet which anyway is compulsory by law). If they are really passionate to the cause, I'm sure they can sacrifice a couple of rides and buy the gear and ensure they tag along for the ones thereon. That's what I did. Even if that's not possible, I know of many xBHP members who have been very generous (to me personally and to others) who wouldn't mind lending their equipment if they aren't tagging along for the ride.

[Rony]

We've had this discussion numerous times here on mumbai thread and always eventually concluded that there is no alternative to ATGAT when it comes to bike rides. For this very reason we have bookmarked the first post of this thread so as to remind and inform all the riders regarding safety before any long/short ride.

As satyen said ATGAT cannot ensure that one doesn't crash but it surely ensures lesser injury compared to riding without them. Hence the insistence on riding gears during all our G2Gs/rides to make sure we are prepared for any eventualities. Same can be implied for daily use so as to make it a habit instead of once a month ritual.

Until one understands their importance its hard to convince oneself regarding the investment in riding gears. But sooner you understand better for you !

[MotorBreath!]

well tbh.. after the ATGATT rule applied, I myself being quite regular on rides(2008-2010) stopped riding with xBhp as i didn't had knee guards(too lazy to buy ) as that wudve set a wrong example, am completely ith Satyen n other guys bout ATGATT.

[alankarmisra]

Looks like it was mistake on my part as my post highlighted the driving part and not the safety. You have to drive sanely whether you wear gears or not. That goes without saying. But I still say let the divide be. Its for the greater good. Alankar spoke of riders looking out for other riders, let us look out for the newbies by asking them to come along with the bare minimum of helmet, knee pads, elbow guards and not a very expensive pair of gloves. The total cost would be less than the fuel cost of 2 rides to Pune and back (barring the helmet which anyway is compulsory by law). If they are really passionate to the cause, I'm sure they can sacrifice a couple of rides and buy the gear and ensure they tag along for the ones thereon. That's what I did. Even if that's not possible, I know of many xBHP members who have been very generous (to me personally and to others) who wouldn't mind lending their equipment if they aren't tagging along for the ride.

While in some cases cost might be an issue, I think in other cases its more of an issue with attitude. I think the point the peeps are trying to make is that while its OK to establish mandates for helmets which are required by law, any additional mandate for gears is frowned upon / looked upon suspiciously / looked upon cynically / critically. My personal issue would not have been one of cost, but one that would go something like

"Is it worth spending 1,000 bucks (basic) on buying alien looking stuff that I will probably not wear beyond one ride and that too so I can have the "privilege" to ride with a few xbhpians I do not know? What if I don't like riding with them? What if I discover they are snoots or horrible riders? I mean, I'm an excellent rider, I've been riding for years, why would I want them to dictate what I wear or don't wear? Why should I spend so much money on all this then? I'm never gonna wear this in the city!".

But that changes once you ride with a co-ordinated group. I've see perceptions change very quickly once they've had a chance to witness the right way of riding - the feeling of safety, being cared for, riding without an ego (very important) on the part of very senior members who could probably ride circles around you if they so choose to, epic cornering sessions, machines to die to for - that culture is hard to resist and investments follow swiftly if only to "look the part". I know that sounds shallow but perhaps such is life and such are people and that's OK so long as they do the right thing in the end.

And I agree, it is painful to ride with noobs who do not understand the correct way of riding and endanger themselves and others in the process but I'd rather work with them and at least attempt to correct them (I would separate them from the group for sure) instead of sitting on the sidelines and watching them get hurt/die in the process and claiming that they probably deserved to crash for being so stupid. Nobody deserves to crash/die and given there are lives at stake I think it is soooooo worthwhile to attempt to reduce the ignorance and perhaps expose people to a culture where each one that rides with you is as good as family and his/her well-being is in your hands. That I think will reduce the desire to compete against each other and foster a more 'parental/brotherhood' based outlook to riding where you watch out for each other - stupid or not.

[alankarmisra]

well tbh.. after the ATGATT rule applied, I myself being quite regular on rides(2008-2010) stopped riding with xBhp as i didn't had knee guards(too lazy to buy ) as that wudve set a wrong example, am completely ith Satyen n other guys bout ATGATT.

Kuch bhi excuse! You could have just asked on the thread - there were enough extra knee guards being passed around - you could have taken one and there were enough people running out and buying knee guards, you could have asked someone to buy one for you and bring it at the starting point. Chalo chalo aa jao next ride pe, nothing is compulsory :P

[antz.bin]

Sorry to barge in again but I just thought of another reason why people might prefer to not wear riding gear inspite of even having them. That would be "Mumma will find out that I am taking the bike out of town. I don't want her to know. I ride 80 km daily in the city, why would I need gear to go to Lonavala which is not even a 150km round trip !!" What if this guy slips inside the patch of oil inside the e-way tunnel and breaks his leg/something else. Who has the heart to break the news to his mumma. Bikes are getting faster, People are buying Dukes and CBRs as their first bikes and we here are discussing a retrograde step.

And FYI, Pune people are no longer sent back for lack of gear. Nobody has the heart to send people back. The only one I know of who was sent back was Rakshas(on one of his early rides). We provide them gear to ride along. They have to wear it even if it pisses them off (I have seen someone like this one too). The last incident when someone was not allowed to ride their bike was at G66G (over 1 year back) it was KTJ and that was because he didn't have insurance. Still he came as a Pillion on a Ninja which I think is waay more fun than riding a Dio all the way.

This is officially my last post on this topic. Have fun.