^^^ if it is a insert, then it's some very good workmanship.

I am aware of the Diasil technology used in the OE R15 bore, and have seen the 165 R 15 bore pictures in the thread on R 165 mods...what i saw was a bore with an Iron sleeve insert,and the rest of the bore looked stock,and no difference could be seen in either the water galley or outer dimension...which made me think it is the stock bore which is bored out to accept the Iron sleeve which in turn is bored to accept the larger piston.
This method is widely prevalent abroad and with quality workshops here...
Thanks for the clarification

We are at peace bro . i just asked a question and Joel took it in a different way. that's all anyways he still didn't answer my question. i assume he is just importing it. anyways.. i am cool..

you are missing the point. my question was is it possible to use 24mm in / 19mm ex on a stock head and the answer i guess is no coz Joel did not reply to it. so i think he is using imported cylinder head.

PSR you are correct, you can sleeve r15 bore. if you have one. let me know. i will get it re bored for you . or you can contact Ravi his workshop is near vadapalani sivan kovil next to that Kolam. we call him Mottai..

very skilled person. he was the one who re bored my hero honda sleek to make it 122cc and radial valves for CBZ old model when i did my fist modification 10 or 11 years back.. nice guy and reasonable price. he is really good in balancing RD crank etc

Have you re-sleeved or re-bored any stock R15 block before?

Be clear, you claim that R15 stock block can be sleeved and then you say that you can re-bore it?

After 10,000kms- 165cc bore!

For everyone who's having opinions about Joel's 165cc bore, this one's for you:

Top End:




Bottom End:


Both the pics were taken after 10,000kms of abuse(engine braking, redlining 70% of the time, aggressive gearshifts included, with lean fueling).

Now, does anyone still wanna argue it's cheap material? If yes, here are few points for you to consider:
1) My stock DiASil bore started giving away within 15k kms. There was oil consumption, and the cylinder surface was glazed smooth.
2) 165cc bore STILL has Honing marks(embedded during manufacture to aid in running in). Goes to show the hardness of this material. Also, another point to think about is, how long such a bore takes to finish running-in, and how long you gotta handle it carefully without performing "speed runs".
Now, imagine this material having tighter than stock tolerances.

3)Both bores were abused in the same way.

yes i have done for all bikes including r15 but have not tried on CBR yet.. your Location says Chennai.. you should know about our guys

whats your point ? and bore seams to be sanded... Y ??

It's not "sanded". It's called "Honing". Honing is done to produce a uniform texture on the bore's surface, so that the piston rings rub against it, and produce a proper seal. This helps in running in. All finished bores are honed.

Now, my point is, even after 10k kms of usage, the Hone-Marks are STILL visible. So, this shows that the bore really hasn't worn much. This in turn, shows the strength of the metal used for the liner. Ideally, by this time the hone-marks would've long gone. The cylinder surface would've glazed into a mirror like finish and started sucking oil and leaking combustion by now, if the metal wasn't so strong.

You can also see that there's no leak of combustion or burning of oil on the cylinder walls(oil glazing).

I know what you have done. my question is y are you posting this when we are talking about Valves and Cylinder head.. Anyway thanks for the info. from what you said i understood that imported 165cc bores are good.

Thanks

Phew, so much confusion, all thanks to the merged threads!
This is Joel's 165cc block, not a block that I imported myself. The honing wasn't done by me, that's how I got the bore from Joel about an year back(Check http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/583425-post218.html). I used to have a thread of my own regarding modifications on my bike done by Joel, but it's now been merged into this thread. So, I'm forced to post all updates about my bike on this thread, regardless of the current topic of discussion. Also, just about one or two pages back, there were people talking about the 165cc blocks from Joel, opinionating that they're of cheap quality. So, just wanted to post whatever I had, to let people know.

oh so its Joel's imported head is it.. oh good to know. anyways.. all i ask is how to use a 24mm intake valve and 19mm exhaust valve on a stock r15 cylinder head. but now i know that's an import. so joel just assembles or resells imported parts to customers. i got my answer.

All this time i was under the impression that Joel makes everything by himself.

making exhaust is easy. even if we go to pudupet here in Chennai, you will find people who make replicas of imported slip on's. but casting a bore and head is completely different ball game and only a professional engineer can do all that with lot of investment for the machinery. So i thought if Joel can make it then i can ask him to cast a head for my CBR as well.

and the link you provided... http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/583425-post218.html

I noticed few thing and was wondering what you were talking about. can you explain ?

"This entire setup isn't a rip-off of any internationally available kit. This entire block was custom designed by Joel and manufactured according to his requirements and calculations."

what do you mean by this ?? what calculation was made ? its a Bore up kit readily available in the market.. so what calculations were made ?? can you please explain ? i would learn one or 2 from your answer.

And here is another one.

"The piston is a flat top, while the stock piston is a bowl shaped one(for smoothness). This flat top with valve recesses is what gives the bump in compression"

When a 150cc has 10.4:1 compression ratio. that means the head can accommodate 14.28cc. 14.28 X10.5 = 150cc cylinder head CC is 14.28
now 14.28cc X 11.5 = 164.28cc or even if you calculate 165 - 11.5 = 14.34cc

So the base line is when you increase the bore size to 165cc automatically the compression increases to 11.44 since you have not modified cylinder head. so what exactly did you mean by bump in compression because of that piston ?

Correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks

Joel does't just sell imported stuff. From what I'm told, he gets the bore from some source, gets it lined as per his requirements. He gets the piston from aother supplier, and he says the piston's made in Japan and it's hard anodized for superor stiffness. So basically, he doesn't "cast" stuff, cos he doesn' own a factoy. He just modifies stuff and tunes it.

Making free flow is no difficult. Just add a pipe with a larger diameter, without restrictions, and it's done. But, ever wondered why Joel's exhausts make a roaring sound at specific RPMs?? That's tuning. You need tuned dimensions like length, diameter, cone angles, muffler length,etc. All these are calculated based on the dimensions of valves, timings, CC, compression, etc. So, it does require some major engineering if you want to extract every last bit of juice from it.


I've answered this above, it's "Customized".

Check the numbers in red. Why do you see that difference when the head's combustion chamber is untouched?? The reason is, you didn't take the piston's top into account. When the piston is at TDC, if the piston top is of "dish type", it adds atleast 1-3 more cc to the compression chamber. So, with that taken into account, R15 has 10.4:1 compression. But in Joel's kit, the piston top is Flat-Top. So, that extra 1-3cc is subracted from combustion chamber when piston is at TDC. Hence, you get even more compression.

Hope that helps.

@sridar - I really dont know what your issue it.. Make One thing quite sure.. Joel will not be wasting time replying to YOUR posts. His work is already been justified by many who are using it.

You just seem to be hell bent on claiming that his stuff is all imported.. If you believe that a layman can just import products, install it, provide the increment in power that is currently being achieved by Joel's bike, then i'd suggest you to do it.. Heck, everyone will go gaga about your works as well. I'd suggest you spend your time well to do just that rather than ranting about his products without even using them..

Lets keep facts as facts, compare a used stock block, you will not find any such marks. Those marks in your used 165CC block, shows the
quality of sleeve casting done vs the piston operation.

So you mean to say more honing marks on the block, show that its healthy? and piston operation is proper?

If the stock block has more oil consumption then its not the block, its the ring clearance. And pls stop claiming that your 165CC block is better in quality than the stock. Do you have any real proof claiming it?

Just one question- Have you seen my stock block or measured the cylinder dia using a vernier calipers like I did, before upgrading to 165cc? I assume not.

I, on the other hand, have. Now, this forum is open for the public. And, public doesn't just include you alone, there're so many others out there.

Heck, are you trying to say those hone-marks show that the sleeve is of inferior quality? So, in your dictionary, hone-lines after 10,000kms of riding is a bad sign? Any studies or research behind this?

THIS my dear gentleman, a picture, IS the proof. If you can show me a stock bore with a riding similar to mine for 10,000kms, and still in a better state than the bore seen in the above pictures-all claims certified by any senior xBhpian with a presence on the forum for atleast 4yrs(as much as me), THEN maybe we'll agree you've seen better.

Until then, the pictures I posted say it all.

I have videos of launches on my bike before/after the exhaust installation Dynos show only half of the story, but still..if you can get me access to a Dyno at Hyd, I'm all game-willing to pay even. Just need access.

You really need to see a lot more in this world

I've already done all the calculations in the past on this thread. Please read the thread completely, I can't do it at all again.
Hint: http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/pit-stop...tml#post687079

So, you mean to say that nobody anywhere runs higher CR than 11.5?
And please get your facts right, the flat top piston increases CR compared to a concave top stock piston. The stock piston is concave:
Image:

Note: The above pic is of my bike's stock bore, after running around 15k kms. Pic was taken during the bore-swap process about an year back.