Hey RG,

Guess I should have clarified before, I own a Honda Dazzler, got a 180cc big bore upgrade from Joel for it pretty recently. I am trying to sort everything out in my own way taking help of everyone from the Honda Service Centres to a couple of local mechanics and xbhp and internet in general.

Guess will reach a point of satisfaction with some long and hard work put in. But in any case, modding is definitely no child's play. Proceed with extreme caution.

So does your bike have the chinese FI and the Lambda sensor yet, or are you waiting for a motorboat to venture into those waters

+1 Stock is way more reliable, especially when you are touring, as you know everything in the bike has its appropriate spare
+1 Tuning has its perils, more so when one doesnt know with what one is dealing with

+1 Never believe in both the positive and negative claims, if you have the knack for it (and the money) experiment. Else rather save it for another upgrade.

So if I get it correct, I know what I deal with and if I get it wrong I don't know what I am dealing with?

Be sensible and that's what everyone say, its easy to speak and hard to live it. For this same reason and "Pointing-out" comments of this sort, many XBHPians are scared or pis*ed off to share their negative experience with the famous Bore upgrades.

Lets take the R15 -165CC for instance,

You see Tuners around the world laugh at me when I say 165CC bore upgrade for R15, I got good contacts with Yamaha factory in UK and I dont want to mention what they comment on bore upgrades. Do you want me to get too deep into this Bore mystery and tell you where the 165 block is sourced from and whats the actual cost and true quality of it? (No I dont think it would be pleasant for ppl who are really into this business)

See I am not a fool to say tuning is totally a waste of time, I have spent some quality time understanding about tuning, PM me for more details. My point is that we are fooled by the word tuning here at present, which should be strictly avoided.

sad to hear this.. but its the truth.. we do get ripped if we don't have enough knowledge..

same here....i am also afraid to accelerate.

Guys lets reason it out.

What I infer from this whole thread is that the modifications offered by Joel are not reliable and therefore no one should go for it..

What I need to understand is, Joel is selling a engine block with the same kind of dimensions, same material specifically engineered for a specific bike, but yet there are really happy customers and there are not so happy or disappointed customers. now, if the same block is sold to everyone, and there are customers who are happy with the performance and reliability, what could be the problem with the unhappy customers?
is it an issue with the way it was put together because once a bore is modified, it is imperative to have everything aligned, and that includes the valve timing. Joel has also pointed out scenarios where the mechanic don't know how to install or are knowledgeable enough to carry out his modifications (http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/812625-post20.html) and will hence need guidance, which i guess is available from most of the post which says they have received prompt responses to the queries.

PS: also what I observe, with respect to the thread starter, Harish seems to be confused. There are posts where he swears by Joel, sings all praises. And then he opens up this thread condemning the works offered by Joel. Other members in this thread say absolute no for any mods, whereas Harish says mods are not bad if done right. which got me to his comments where he is asking fellow members to contact him outside the forum. Is he now planning to set shop with the contacts he has built and make a killing there?

lol... No sir, I generally avoid making tall claims. Neither do I believe in endorsing something I have never tried. I do NOT sell Joels stuff either. The only member I ever "helped" in getting it was Alankar, whose was a bad experience for more than one reason and for which I would never bother helping anyone source it either....

And knowledge wise I am extremely tiny as compared to your infinite wisdom. Which ofcourse if established so very well with your contacts with Yamaha UK "factory". I am surprised how a Piano factory has know how of the 165cc bore. But nevertheless I have NO absolute info on it.

Back to where its being sourced from and what not barely makes a difference. And the obvious reference to the T135 forums and the big bore being a rip off from there probably is well explained by Abhimanyu in his thread...
What I said and meant was for anyone interested in 'tuning' the bike, from ANYONE. You should LEARN and understand what you are doing instead of blindly following ANYONE. Even God (Rossi) has his doubts on his R&D people!

So in short spare the trolling on to someone else. May be more in your stature. Am a mere dimwit biker.

Yes if you INFER it so, then you may have inferred it correctly, I must say.

I have tried my best to spread the awareness about the incorrect modd approach practiced here, I mean the cheap approach of boring out a factory design with XYZdized block and putting bikers in trouble. I am happy that there are several bikers (80+ till now) to take my advice and my case as an example. Thats all the thread is about, it served its purpose.

I am open and ready to post more about your 165CC block right here with all info on cost, quality and grade.... do you like it?

I can request and bring an official statement from Yamaha India about these cheap re-bores too.... again if you like?

You can PM me too if you like.

PS: You contact me outside the forum bro, you will know what I am upto.

Good Sir, the 165CC was just for a reference and I apologize if it was too much and yes Sir, I do have my dearest friend (Who adviced me through my trouble and sourced a few parts too) in UK working for Yamaha factory, but never knew it was only a Piano factory, not sure why he deals with R125 at piano factories

Yes, I would like you to do so please. Also if you can get the details regarding the engine bore available for other makes which are on sale as well. Not just Yamaha UK

I would not want to use the PM option please. If you have information that is in the best interest of the members of the forum, I would like you to post it for their benefit.

You are self contradicting. Once you tell you can divulge everything here and other time you say to contact personally?
Me and many others are eager to know and are waiting to see like some hot news shown in tv! Divulge the details and you can save many unsuspecting customers from the faulty mods or quality or whatever. Please give out the details as claimed by you. Have the "sansani khaiz khulasa" be revealed!

Well the reason for a PM is very simple just to keep one-to-one and I will speak really frank in that mode. Now, I think I may have to contact the Moderators before posting anything of that sort. I am reporting my own comment to moderators seeking help.

@Harish - Read the thread now.
I could go on and on about what is happening here, but the intent of this thread is really really clear.
The discussions will lead nowhere. Let time speak for itself!

From the time you first came to me, to your tuner friend with whom you had a fight over a broken engine to your new Indo-ASEAN alliance with people who can even advice Yamaha to build engines (who are mechanics or parts vendors merely) is commendable. A lot of untold versions are here, so I'd strictly refrain to avoid anymore confusions.
Time will prove what works and what does not.
All your claims of saying that "he said this was better" or "this tuner said so" with no basis with a few email exchanges is really interesting.
Every coin has two sides. And every tuning story has a version. The bright side and the dark side. This is an open forum and every person is free to post his views.
I have stated in the past of what could go wrong with an install even, but its not counted when something goes wrong. Its pathetic that hardly a handful of the many who get the tunes talk about the good that happened to them.
If anything was ever found at fault, it was always replaced.
Its taken me a lot to get here on my own, with my own efforts. I'm only saddened with the enthusiasm people show when things go wrong and with all the exchange of rumours right behind me.

@samarth - I got married just a few days ago. I havent been able to check mails thoroughly over the last week, but your comments are very contradictory to the language you use over mails to me, otherwise! This is an open platform to flick me, my character and my work around. Hatts off.

Sorry to hear that Bro, just now saw your comment. I am sure you are not my type, getting depressed

Life is full of experiences and yes these modifications were a part too