Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

Well, this is what hot roding is about... until you try it you cannot find out or validate the results for sure. I had a chat with Mr. Vikram. He feels that the ideal combination should be 122.5 main jet but he still wants to me to do a few more days of ride so that i can give him a comprehensive details about the low end, mid range and top end ride tests as well. Then we can plot a graph of series of behaviour from my ride and we can adjust the fuelling and the jetting accordingly. Thanks to the nonstop rains here, my riding has been reduced to just grocery shopping and thats about it!

I would like to mention one thing.. with hot roding is not "plug and play" unlike the claims made! Hot roding by default is a trial and error process and i can verify the same with all the logs i have posted since the build! Besides the assembly, nothing else has been a smooth sailing with the kit and living experience with it. However, that been said, the experience may have been different for riders who have had access to the tuner directly and have got things done there at the workshop. It has really opened up my eyes to the whole scene of how much testing, planning, money, time and effort is spent by a manufacturer of these bikes before they even think about putting it on road for us normal folks in order to make it plain, painless, functional and easy to use: in short a fully working model without going crazy over anything besides the generic maintenance. I now have more respect for Yamaha then ever.

I wish the rains would vanish for a few days so that we can do the needful and get the work started on the final stage of tuning.

Right now with the TPS back to functional level some of the old problems have resurfaced. The engine would misfire at times the irritating piston slap is back and at times my ride would be out of breath at lower revs. I have a feeling that trying out the 20 pilot jet should solve the problem. if not then i will attempt with the 15 pilot jet and see which one gets rid of this issue. Top end as mentioned i am facing issues with the engine knocking at 8000 rpm on 4th and 5th gears. Mid range has become really agressive and strong so that's a good sign.

Build wise the Yoshi looks just awesome.. japs really know how to make an exhaust! Unfortunately my phone battery died before i could take a pic of the Yoshi. Leo vince is really good exhaust as well. So let's see which one gives out a better result with the souped up ride. i will have a go with the Leo Vince first and then the Yoshimura.. planning something big and i hope senior rider abhimanyu31 will help me verify the tests and results when the weather permits.

I hope you got in touch with Mr. Vikram, Motozone Performance, Pune. He is very helpful and i guess not that far from your place so i am sure he will sort out most of your issues mate.


Cheers,

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

@shv18 : Good to see that you have solved most of the niggles! And you are so lucky to find such a tuner!! I guess once everything is sorted out & LV/Yoshi is plugged in, it is safe to say that it will be the fastest FZ in Mumbai?

& sorry I couldnt get you 20 size pilot jet, I am not in India now

Agree 100% with this statement! I too realized the amount of effort put in by companies on each motorcycle only after I took the plunge with the kits.

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

Oh ho ho ho... ... Always ready... Let the games begin...


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Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

That's alright.




I finally got hold of the TVS pilot jets which come at a size of 20.





So now the stockpile of jets in my kitty has gone up even more! After riding her for over 100 kms since the last tune, i feel i am in a better position to give out my observations:

* The acceleration has become lazy except the mid range
* Lots of misfires at low end range which can be attributed to wrong fuelling at the low end
* Attempted WOT and then managed to reach 114 kmph in no time but then again started the knocking issue @ 8,000 rpm
* Vibrations have gone down severely thanks to the 120 main jet and better AFR
* TPS mod is keeping things in order. Engine heating has reduced drastically and also smoother acceleration.

More or less i feel the culprit is the the air box cover with the extra holes. But in order to confirm my doubts, i shall replace it with the stock cover and see if there are any changes. With spirited riding the FE has gone down to 35 kmpl. But let's see... not at all bothered about the FE but getting the tune right!

UPDATE:

Got rid of the holed airbox cover and put the stock one into place. Will take her out for a spin in a bit and give it the beans then shall report back.




Cheers,

RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013

Hi all,

with the monsoons at its peak doing its chores regularly, looking out for an opportune time to do the tests are now becoming increasingly difficult. Anyways, after reverting to stock airbox cover, the knocking issues at 8000 rpm have gone down drastically. Though i am still hounded by the engine stalling and the irritating piston slap is back on. The acceleration though very smooth is also lagging behind the earlier agressive set up by a huge margin. If the earlier state of mind was devil, the current set up is a sheep but with hot wheels on it! The surge of power starts from 4000 rpm onwards but the acceleration is linear but slow. I had a chat with abhimanyu31 and he felt that currently the stock exhaust is restricting the full potential of the set up. However, i think the RC cam is currently advancing the closing and opening of the valves and right now with the TPS being functional, it is not providing the required charge of electricity at the correct time to make the power. Though this is just my theory i can see the way the power is made is relatively slow.

The compensation is now with the fuelling sorted out, my ride has become very smooth and the major vibrations only start from 7000 rpm onwards.. not that it is not manageable but yes the vibrations are felt on the handlebar. Hopefully once, i am done with my pending work, i will let rider abhimanyu31 take a spin on my ride and then take his feedback into perspective. I shall then meet Mr. Vikram and see how can we alter the tune to more agressive without compromising too much on FE. Under current circumstances with occasional speed bursts the FE is now consistently hovering around 40-42 kmpl which is quite surprising.


More reports later...

Cheers,

Re: RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013

Interesting you should mention ignition.
I just got back from the Dyno after doing power runs on my monster and fzs.
My fzs has ignition problems resulting in the spark breaking down in the upper RPM range.
The tuner ran it 4 times on the dyno, each time the result was the same.
Very rich up to 5k then its a great fueling until the spark breaks down.
We discussed the problem and until someone makes a programable CDI for the fzs (ver 2 wiring) looks like the only work around is the play with the jetting. I'm not going to bother with that since I don't really ride it much.

Re: RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013


Mate i forgot to mention one thing. Mine is still running on stock CDI while your ride if i am correct has got the pre-programmed CDI with 8 different ignition maps right? If my theory is correct then the only way to make more power right now is either to play more with the jets or else opt for a pre-programmed CDI with different mapping options: from normal to agressive. But lemme confirm my doubts with a senior rider first.

Quite an interesting result from the Dyno BTW. How much power is she making at the rear wheel and the crank??

Cheers,

Re: RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013

I've attached the graph so you can take a look.


You can see at 8400RPM the graph peaks and valleys out to redline.
This is where the engine was backfiring due to ignition breaking down.
the power is very linear upto 7800RPM which it then drops slightly.
TQ peaks around 5200RPM and slowly drops off.
The lowest graph shows the AF. You can see it goes off the charts indicating its very rich. This is the advantage of a dyno with a wideband O2 sensor.

If I was to pursue the FZS further (dump more $ into it) then I will get the carb re-tuned and compare stock CDI and my current adjustable CDI
Possibly upgrade the coil to a higher discharge type if that is the problem.
I'd cautiously estimate there is still a 0.5 - 1hp to gain from a correct tune. That may infact go up but who knows. Under 5K its rough to ride, Keep it above 5k and its a fun bike.
The engine was taken upto 10K RPM on other runs (total of 4 with the best 2 on the graph) It was interesting to see the dyno's tacho needle jumping around upto 20K as the spark broke down. Sad to say there was no flames popping on the over-run/decel.

All runs were done in 3rd gear as its a "small" bike. The big bikes get run in 4th gear.

Re: RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013

@Madmik and @ Shiv18...please check if you are running your bikes ,with a Resistor in the Plug Cap, and a Resistor Plug.....if you have both, then go for a non resistor type plug cap which will increase the Spark current , much needed at the top end....
To check plug, read the plug Number and if you have word R in it, then it is a resistor Plug..
To check the Plug Cap, remove it from the Ignition wire by Holding the wire Firmly with your left hand, and turning the cap in a Anti Clockwise direction till it is free of the wire...Then with a Multimeter check the continuity between the wire end to plug end...if it shows 4.7 K Ohms or higher, then go for a different plug cap without in built resistance.....

You need ONE resistor in the Ignition High Voltage line to reduce RFI radiation..having TWO will reduce spark current, and Power..

Re: RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013


My sparkplug, lead, coil is all factory. Original plug still. Only the CDI is different.
I may plug the factory CDI back in and see if it makes any difference.
Need smaller Main jet and bigger pilot acording to the tuner, Same as what I was going to get from my builder along with a different needle for the slide.

Re: RC kits 2194 kms Log report & Functional TPS 13th June, 2013

PSR Ji, at the moment i would like to reserve my opinion till abhimanyu31 and Mr. Vikram from Motozone Performance have a look at it and confirm whatever i have experienced. I am thinking of a much simpler way to get rid of this problem and the noise.. revert to stock cam for good!!

But before i do take such a drastic step, i believe it would be wise to first sort out everything else. Right now for me the biggest headache is getting rid of the misfiring, piston slap and the occasional engine shutting off for no apparent reason.. all i think can be attributed somehow to fuelling and the timing being off with the RC cam in comparison to the ignition timing at idle which i guess is retarded when the throttle is at normal position.

Cheers,

RC kits Speed Test Log report with Functional TPS 21st June, 2013

Hi All,

Thanks to the weather gods being kinder, i finally got an opportunity to whack open the throttle and test out the RC kits along with the RC cam. For those all Noobs120 kmph (on Speedo) yesterday and today 121 kmph respectively. The overall distance required to achieve this speed was around 800 mtrs. Please do bear in mind that i gave a rolling start from 60kmph to see the overall top end due to limitations of road length.

Revving at close to 8500-8700 rpm @5th gear, i was able to reach these speeds. Keeping a conservative figure of 10% speedo error, the true speed was 121/10% = 108.9 kmph (Approx.) The above speeds were achieved in fully crouched position and no engine knocking or flatspots were noticed throughout the rev range. If i sit in normal position then the max speed i have been able to hit is hovering around 114 - 115 kmph. I believe given more length i should be able to push it further to 124 - 125 + kmph on the speedo. The power starts building up only from 4000 rpm onwards. I spoke to PSR Ji and abhimanyu31 about this issue and i believe that this is happening so because of the TPS giving full voltage of 5 volts to the CDI @WOT only from those rpms. The engine vibrations atleast for me have become very unbearable from 5000 rpms @ WOT. The vibrations percolate to the handlebars at those rpms and i can literally feel the camshaft stitching noise vibes on it. Though this may be one off case, i have decided to revert to stock OEM camshaft. I was discussing with Mr. Vikram, Motozone Performance for a possible solution. He has suggested that we should relook at the torque ranges at which the engine mounting screws were tightened by my mechanic. According to him, if the screws are overtightened or are less than 22 NM torque; such weird issues may crop up.

Anyways, thanks to rider Murali, Jonahmano & without a doubt Mr. Vikram, i can now join the band and sing the same tune that 120 main jet (Mikuni/UCAL specific), 17.5 pilot jet and the needle jet from Bajaj Pulsar 180, 29mm CV carburettor is the perfect combo, with the stock exhaust for the above mentioned set up.

For those riders who have got the RC cam installed and more or less have the same set up, you may try and get the carb jetting done as mentioned above. Secondly, ensure that the TPS is locked at full otherwise you may witness:

* Engine misfiring
* Piston slap
* Engine shutting off when throttle is released at low speeds, 3000 rpm and below riding speeds @1st or 2nd gear even.
* Reverse cranking: A loud thud at times when one is attempting to start the bike.

The above mentioned set up is good enough from sea level till 4000 ft (with the report tests received so far from other riders: thanks a ton! ). This Sunday, i have requested abhimanyu31 to join me to help me take this build further to perfection. As promised earlier, i will be testing out the Leo Vince GP Corsa Racing Carbon Full Exhaust System this Sunday. I shall try and give out two scenarios: one with the DB killer ON and the other without the DB killer and the respective tests. Please bear in mind that the above mentioned tests with the LV exhaust will be done with the stock camshaft now as for me the cam noise and the weird vibes on the handlebar have pushed me not to continue with the RC cam. Somehow the noise and the vibes makes me feel that the bike is broken and not functioning as adequately put by Jonahmano.

At a later part i will be testing the Yoshimura Full Exhaust as shown in the pic below (pic from Yoshi's site) :




I shall also try and report back the jets required for the upjetting along with using such full exhausts. For those who are going crazy to find the 120 main jet or higher, please get in touch with Mr. Vikram. He has an arsenal of genuine Mikuni jets from USA, compatible with the BS 29 CV carburettor. Though bear in mind, the prices may be slightly on the higher side as he imports such jet kits directly from abroad, your headache with the tuning will be finally over for good. Please do let me know if my inputs have helped other riders who have the same set up but have no respite from tuning it or have not received a proper after sales service from RC. I shall try and give more inputs based on the feedback i receive from the riders in order to keep this thread noob friendly and also as informative as possible with my limited exposure and stuff i have learned from other senior riders.

I hope, so far i have been able to provide facts and figures with using such after market performance kits for all you folks. I really wish that other senior riders also come forward, join this discussion, correct me on things which they feel i may be going wrong or should try to elaborate and ofcourse share their perspective/experience on this thread keeping the baseless arguments and mud slinging at bay.

At a later point of time, I shall try and provide the nos. and difference of lift and closing times between the stock and the RC camshaft in order to differentiate the varying nos. between to two cams and when time permits, attempt a compression test to confirm what is the PSI range my ride is currently witnessing. If possible this Sunday, i will try and open up the engine head in order to get an idea about what is going on inside my ride's modified heart..

But more on this later..

UPDATE: Mr. Vikram has been kind enough to allow me test one of his Pre Programmed CDIs for FZ tomorrow. My FZ - X is late 2010 model so it has two connection ports. The newer models have single port. I shall test it and report back the aftermath.




Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

My ride:

Brand new bike souped with RC 180cc bore kit
Racing clutch springs
Racing Camshaft
Simota Performance Air-filter
Ported Head by Joel
Apache 180cc Carb jetted with Mikuni 120 main and pilot and needle of Bajaj 180cc
Valve Clearance: Inlet 0.06mm and exhuast 0.08mm (Joel's TM recommendation)
Motul 300V 15w50 Full synthetic
Stock Exhuast

My bike has done 7000 kms on the second bore kit. First bore kit got seized in 2000 kms and the second one is running fine crossing 7k kms.

I got the maximum speed of 124 km/hr without crouching and having only amateur riding skills.

And also fuel quality is low comparing to the quality of Bangalore, Mumbai and Hyderabad.

I don't have expert mechanics to get my bike tuned but still I'm getting great results. I'm very much happy.

I do get the camshaft sound which our fellow rider nicked it as "Tailor Saab". And I feel that tailor saab is doing his job to get the maximum performance of the bike and reliability so the sound is not a problem for me. TPS is locked to max and there is random knocking at 4th and 5th gear.

Fully opened the engine at 5k kms to see the condition of the bore, the camshaft, the valves and the crankshaft and they are running perfectly well.

Thanks to Mr. Shv for his extensive research. please go on with your different set of trial and error sessions and we will be happy to benefit from you.

Keep up the enthusiasm.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Good to see individual experiments going on well...Please don't expect higher top end, since the gearing is the same..Higher cc will let you get to the top quickly than stock..ie., your acceleration will be better....
Looking forward to further learning...

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Hello sir, i forgot to mention that the engine was raring to go further till redline thus, given a longer patch of tarmac i was confident my FZ - X would have managed to hit 125+kmph. As far as i remember stock CDI cuts off at 9000 rpm. Agreed i am not expecting speeds of 140 kmph with the stock set up hence, in future will be experimenting with the 15T front sprocket mod as now more or less the fuelling is now on the correct side. Sir please keep these factors in mind when the speed runs were attempted:

* Heavy rider
* No lightning reflexes and any major idea in conducting a drag run unlike my superstar rider mate Joel Raju
* Functional TPS

I believe with a lighter weight rider like my mate above, we could have achieved a slightly higher top end and even set a quicker pace. I also feel locking the TPS at full in this regard would have led to lower acceleration timings as i had witnessed earlier even with the lean tuning. Now the acceleration is linear compared to the very agressive nature she had developed earlier with the red light blinking.

Hope to learn more from you and other riders as well.

Cheers,