Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

[MENTION=46350]Mad Mik[/MENTION] That is what my concern is. In India, we do not have tuners. In Delhi even if there are a some good tuners, I cannot even think of trusting them, as most are out to make a quick buck.

Personal lack of knowledge is another problem which is difficult to overcome. In India we do not have big houses with big garages where we can have a stockpile of tools and be used to working with our own hands from when we are young. That culture does not exist here. Out here, since labour is cheap, we just call a plumber, electrician, mason etc for even the tiniest of jobs.

Most mechanical engineers out of the so called 'prestigious' IITs will not be capable of doing anything, simply because they don't have hands on experience.

PSR, Abhimanyu31 are exceptions, not the norm. I wish I had someone to learn from hands on, unfortunately I don't. That lack of knowledge is the biggest barrier when contemplating undertaking even the most basic of modifications.

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

I second that. There is a severe paucity of GOOD tuners over here.

And amongst those who are tuners, around 99% have half-baked knowledge. That I can assure you of personally.
I had been sent back sulking after having a word with them all these times.

They only talk high and mighty but actual ground working knowledge is ZERO. Just making a quick buck seems to be their motto.
They talk big to unsuspecting customers, most of whom are college going guys or even younger and fleece them.

I have been flatly refused help by some of the so-called tuners here even if I am ready to pay for their services.
The reason given was I wont touch your souped up ride which you got done somewhere else.

What I came to know after talking to them is they lack even the basic knowledge of how to check out others work.
So they refuse to touch other modded bikes.

They also have the guts to tell me throw away these parts and get the mod done from them, if I intend to avail their services.
With promises that their bike would be faster and all that crap.

So unless and until we get the TUNING garage culture over here in India, people like us are left with no option but
contemplating taking the plunge by ourselves or the few lucky ones have the help of our senior riders.

cheers...

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

@ Monk you are too kind with your words ...and in thinking I know something .The fact is I am still learning,since the volume of my Ignorance is larger than the universe...Through all the years of my continued learning process, one Fact keeps hitting me again and again.....that stock setting of an engine is the most reliable one, and the designer and manufacturer knows much more on the specific preference of the engine design,and parts, than any outsider will ever get to know....They perfect it through time ,experience, and application.
But the Spirit of Human exploration drives most of us to experiment and learn, without which many of the great things in our life wouldn't have been invented..
Good luck to all with the spirit....

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

This one statement of yours is a lesson which a lot of us can learn from.

The more one learns, the more one realizes his/her level of ignorance. This realization breeds humility. The most knowledgeable people are the most humble as well. Only a cocky ignorant youngster tries to showoff his knowledge (or lack thereof). On the forum I see a lot of the latter and little of the former. Hope people like you will positively influence people like us

If I was in the same city as you, I might just have been knocking at your door regularly for some motorcycle 'coaching classes'!

Hats off to you sir and apologies to the rest for digressing.

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

Experienced and humble riders like PSR Ji, abhimanyu and many others are the main reason behind me coming back to xbhp everytime regardless of the usual garbage which is flung around across different threads.

I hope with their help I can learn more and hopefully contribute something to the community and to this thread as well.


Cheers,

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

@ Monk and @shv18, I am humbled more by your words.....I try my best to share what little I know with everyone ....and @ Monk you and all ,are most welcome to query me in case you need any info...If I can share what I know it gives me Happiness...
What I learned ,was from here, and so what i share and leave will also be here...

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

PSR sir, first I would like to thank you very much for helping us namely, shv18 and me, with the right size main jets.

You went out of your way to machine and send those main jets here. You were enthusiastically helping with the tuning issue with all
the knowledge you had. Without which we pretty much would have been still lost, i am sure.

For this hats off to you sir. Just shows your immense knowledge and humility.

cheers...

Re: RC kits 1889 kms Log report 4th June, 2013

Very true, no better words could describe what u've said


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RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

Hi all,

as discussed earlier, i was looking for alternate ways to get the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) working with the bajaj pulsar UG 4, BS 29 CV carburettor. It just so happened that while browsing through various performance parts dealers pages on FB, i came across one gentlemen who has had a fare share of experience in modding 4 stroke bikes and cars, so i thought of checking with him if there is any way he can devise a solution to this problem. As my luck turns out, Mr. Vikram Verma, owner of Motozone performance shop, Pune was up for the ante. He was very prompt in replying to my messages and confirmed that the TPS can be made functional on a BS 29 carburettor and he has already successfully done such jobs earlier with his performance kits and builds he has done for his customers. I then decided to pester this gentleman and just my good luck, he was coming down to Mumbai from Pune on some official work. So i set schedule with him and he promised to look into the matter and solve this issue right in front of me.

He was very kind to give me a prompt reminder of our set meeting today. I quickly made my way to his workshop and then he began with the task of getting the whole thing started. We first got the side panels removed from my bike in order to get easy access to the bay where the carburettor is placed. He then got the carburettor out and then dismantled it completely.



Pic 1: My FZ-X being dismantled for the TPS mod.

He then removed the stock BS 29 lever from the carburettor and got the BS 26 lever installed. He was kind enough to source out the stock BS26 lever from his end which was machined out to match the venturi of the BS 29 carburettor. The work was top notch. Anyways, i shall not blabber much and let the pics do the talking:





Pic 2: BS 29 carburettor dismantled from the bike and now with the BS 26 lever, machined as required to match the venturi walls of the carburettor. Notice the TPS lever now jutting out from the carburettor side.



Pic 3: The circlip, seal and the metal cap removed from the stock BS 29 carburettor is now useless as it doesnot match nor fit the BS 26 lever.





Pic 4 & 5: A specially fabricated metal contraption in which the TPS sensor fits snugly inside and it is air tight. Notice the smaller cylinder. This has been grooved to get the TPS holding screw, screwed in tightly so that the TPS sensor doesn't move around.



Pic 6: The TPS holding metal contraption has now been tightly fitted inside the small cylindrical thing on the side of the carburettor from where the TPS lever of the the BS 26 carburettor was coming out as shown in the earlier pics. It is an air sealed contraption so that incase there is any leak from the venturi, no air leaks out from this contraption nor the TPS.



after the carburettor was installed back into the bike, then Mr. Vikram, got the airbox top lid removed and then installed his modified airbox cover installed as shown in the picture.






Pic 7 & 8: Stock air filter now with 3 holes for additional air flow. Mr. Vikram was very helpful and he quickly organised a separate airbox lid with this mod so that i have an option to revert back to the stock airbox head if i ever wanted to.


He was kind enough to source out a genuine Mikuni 120 mainjet. After a few rounds of testing my bike with the existing jet configuration, he then dismantled the carb again and then got the 120 main jet installed, the carb was mounted back onto the bike and then he did a small AFR adjustment. Well, so there we were now with the TPS mod, 120 main jet and now modified air filter airbox. So let me not keep you waiting further and show you the result in the video below:



If one notices, the TPS sensor warning light now doesn't come ON. It is now fully functional and i could already witness a drastic change in the character of my bike. Unlike earlier agressive nature, my FZ-X became more sublime, the earlier annoying vibrations have vanished and the engine now was revving much more freely! The rpms which with the earlier set up used to come down slowly now have reduced drastically to an acceptable limit. According to Mr. Vikram and ever helpful PSR Ji, the most probable culprit is now the RC camshaft which has advanced the timing of the valve opening and closing. Although this is not a proven thing but as far as my build is concerned, unfortunately i would have to agree with them. The low end performance of my FZ-X has taken a massive hit when compared to stock. My guess is the mild lift cam has been designed specifically to enhance the mid range and the top end, more or less the objective has always been to make the engine rev very quickly to the red lined. I won't call the RC camshaft faulty in this regard. If one listens to the audio from the video link above, the cam noise is very evident. After covering 2060 kms on the trip meter since, the build, the cam noise has increased and worsened if i may add. Not to mention the return of the piston slap, reverse cranking and engine shutting of at times when stuck on a red light.

I have decided to eventually revert to stock cam right after we do a speed run with the existing set up. Unfortunately, by the time we were done with the whole installation it was already dark. So Mr. Vikram couldn't carry on with the tuning of the carb. He has asked me to try out the current set up and the tune and he will help me with the fine tuning of the carburettor after i do a few runs and give him my feedback.

OBSERVATIONS:

* The engine is now less heating and more docile compared to the early aggressive nature when the TPS was locked at full. RPMs hit the redline easily but not as fast and agressive when the TPS was locked at full. The reduction in the engine temp is most likely because of the AFR now becoming better compared to the earlier lean tune.
* The engine vibrations have gone down drastically, the spark plug reading was showing a stoich AFR mixture.
* The annoying red light glowing TPS light is now off. The TPS is now fully functional thanks to Mr. Vikram's mod. The engine revs very freely and feels as good as stock.
* The RPMs now come down much faster to engine idling speed compared to the earlier problem of the rpms getting stuck at 2200-2500 as shown in the video in one of my earlier posts.
* The engine now flies in all gears though i am still facing engine knocking at WOT and around 8000 rpm. I was able to hit 109 kmph without any problem but after that the engine knocking started. With the additional holes to let more air in has now resulted all show off's favourite loud "roaring noise" the moment one crosses 4k rpms though personally, i am not a big fan of it. I guess we still have to fine tune the carburettor tuning but now with Mr. Vikram's help i am more then ever confident about getting the tune to the point where i always wanted it to be.

Thank you so much Mr. Vikram, i cannot stress on the paramount importance of having a person by your side who understands the tuning requirements of a souped up ride which was so far a trial and error scene for me. Now here is the good news! upon my insistence, Mr. Vikram has agreed to provide functional TPS mod for all those who are interested. So if anyone is keen on getting hold of it, they may directly get in touch with:

Mr. Vikram Verma
+919975607055
His store link:https://www.facebook.com/motozoneperformance

Please note that the above mod is applicable only for the BS29 CV carburettor though i am sure Mr. Vikram will find out other ways to make the TPS functional with other types of carburettor as well.

Leo Vince & Yoshimura exhaust tests:

Before i forget, i would like to give a teaser to all those who are following this thread. I have got an opportunity to try out two well known exhausts in the market along with the set up to see what is the difference of performance between two full blown Free Flow Exhaust systems. Below is the Leo Vince GP Corsa Carbon exhaust system.



Pic 9: Leo Vince GP Corsa carbon full exhaust system.


Right now i will test my bike with the stock exhaust and figure out the limitations with this set up, later will try out these two exhausts. But more reports on this later..


Cheers,

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

So Shivang

Finally you agreed with what I have experienced. The Knocking and Irritating cam noise. Now just tell me was it the Fuel grade or something other. I still get knocking but I'm living it. Anyways if this time my kits goes kaput then I will change everything to stock.

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

Is that a Singer sewing machines display on your youtube clip?

Nice to see its getting sorted. Just one thing I would be doing different. You may choose to do different.
You are saying you are still getting knocking. I would be replacing the drilled airbox lid with the stock airbox lid.
Reason being to lessen the airflow. We know knocking comes from several sources (ignition, AF ratio incorrect, possible wrong sparkplug to name a few) So since the ign, plug are not to be changed how about decreasing the airflow into the engine to see if the fuel can "catch up".

Do you have definite 100% proof the engine is infact knocking? Are you able to do a plug chop after say 3-5 seconds of WOT with the knocking? You will have to pull over on the side of the road to remove the plug (30sec job) Is it possible to get a brand new plug, gapped correctly and you ride it to the "test track" Install the new plug (for the first time) and do your WOT run, Chop the plug with WOT so the RPM's don't drop, coast to a stop somewhere safe and remove the plug, inspect and compare with previous plugs pics?
The reason for using a brand new plug is it makes it easier to read, The only reading will be the WOT run.


With your exhaust test, Where is the Yoshi?
You know I have a soft spot for Yoshis, esp carbon ones (more than Termis )
Aside from all that it looks like you may have found your new Tuner, Should Mr Vikram be interested (and it seems like he is)

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

SHIV18,...as usual a good Precise write up....I am Glad that many of the problems have been sorted out ,and you are well on the way to getting a good Upgrade...A special note of appreciation to Mr.Vikram for taking up the work, and doing a good job of it...I believe, the three cuts in the airbox cover may be causing high end problem.....
I am very happy things are going in the right direction,and you will soon have a properly tuned bike...
Good Luck..

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

Well in my case there is no knocking throughout the rev range except @4th and sometimes 5th gear at 8000 rpm onwards. The fuel quality is RON 91 here. So my guess is the fuelling at the top end of my FZ-X still needs to be sorted out. I feel the knocking you are experiencing is purely based on the low quality fuel at your area which i reckon around RON 87 or lesser. I would recommend getting in touch with PSR Ji to understand the correct combination acetone mixture per ml of fuel to get rid of this problem.

As i have mentioned earlier, on the performance side i understand that the RC cam has been designed to increase the power from most likely mid range all the way to the top end so at some point we have to compromise which in my case has been most likely with the low end at 3k rpms and lesser which was never there with the stock cam. However, the cam noise is a compromise which i feel for a touring set up especially is unacceptable. May be for street racers and on track it is not much of a concern. But clearly for regular use in city riding conditions and highway rides i am putting up a red flag in this regard. Please bear in mind that these are my views and based on my experience only! Other riders may have had a different experience with their respective rides.Now the good thing is Mr. Vikram has assured me that he will help me out in getting the tune sorted out further. Unfortnately due to time constraints we had to leave the work halfway through.

Thanks mate. The plug chop test makes sense. Unfortunately due to the incessant rains in the city, i couldn't manage to follow your recommended test. After two speed runs the rains ruined everything. Yes i can confirm that there is heavy knocking on 5th gear especially when on WOT @8000 rpm and above. Most likely the fuelling at the top end is still not enough! Well i would say luck is favouring me finally and Mr. Vikram came to the rescue just at the right time. Well whether he agrees to become the official tuner or just a helpful person to make me get to the right tune,only time will tell.

Thank you for your kind words sir. I somehow agree with you sir and Madmik regarding the air flow. I too feel that the extra openings are putting in too much air and disturbing the fuelling at the top end though the mid range has become even more stronger. When time permits and the weather is in a better shape i shall request Mr. Vikram from Motozone to help me sort out the fuelling further. Might i add, i had an opportunity to see some of his works with Pulsar 220s and i was really impressed. There is a 4 valve system currently he is working on and using state of the art flow bench tests.. looks promising! But more on that later.

I had a chat with abhimanyu31 and he too felt that the extra holes may be creating air vortex resulting more air and lesser fuel at the top end. But in this regard i would let the gentleman decide what would be the best course of action to be taken. So slowly but steadily the things are moving in the right direction.

Cheers,

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

I'm also getting knocking issues at the same 4th and 5th gear as you mentioned and also at high RPMs. MY setup has touched nearly 7000 kms and without any problems. So I don't want to got with any future replacements. Thank God I didn't do anything with Decomp lever as suggested by Mr. Luke. Anyways what I told came real to all people but some agree and some don't. I could find out cam noise in stock bike also and when I inquired about it here and facebook, people were just making fun of me with giving multiple reasons but finally I understood it was knocking in high RPMs. You need great ears to listen. Anyways will take a call on further modds when you guys touch a good no. of kms.

My next attempt would be trying on Leo Vince but only after shv18 tries it.

Re: RC kits 2060 kms Log report & Functional TPS 8th June, 2013

Good to hear that finally the TPS issue is resolved for good. And that to in a technically correct way.

Which one among the low,mid,high rev range your bike weak, at present.

Mine low and high rev range is good. Mid range sucks terribly. It starts off good and then suddenly there is a dip and again it flies off at high range.

Once the mid range tuning is sorted then I am good with the stock exhaust. Until you test the Yoshimura

cheers...