Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Well to answer your query let me put it down in the following points:

1) I tried sourcing Rimula R4 from Chennai, but the shops I went to didn't have 10w30, only 20w40/15w40

ANS: Shell Rimula R4 as per the website of Shell India only comes in 15W40 grade (Shell Rimula R4 - India). I have not come across any 10W 30/20W 40 grades for the same. Are you sure you checked with the dealer properly about the viscosity grade? I have only used 15W 40 grade R4 oil throughout my tests and have not witnessed any problems. However, having said that please do keep mind of my disclaimer: to me this is just an experiment. Should you decide to try it please do a thorough and informed research before taking a plunge into the HDEO oil world.


2) About clutch slippage, I'm getting false neutrals in 5th gear with Honda Throttle FS 10w30, and also with Honda mineral 10w30. Is there anyway to prevent that?

ANS: "Crapstrol" errr.. i meant Castrol is one oil most of avoided engine brands by a majority of motorcycle riders primarily because of large no. of fakes available in the Indian market which cannot be easily distinguished from the original ones. Most of us avoid it like plague! If you wish to stick with standard JASO MA motorcycle engine oil then you may try Shell Advanced Ultra 10W 40 FS oil which is very popular amongst CBR owners. Regarding the 5th gear sticking/no good slick shifts, there can be multitude no. of reasons behind it: wrong clutch cable setting, wrong shifting/half shifting technique used unknowingly/misaligned or worn out gears due to premature wear or manufacturing defect/wrong or fake oil usage. As a first, you may try changing the oil brand and the clutch cable inspected/adjusted to see if the problem vanishes within the 1st 100 kms post replacement of existing oil. Back in the day when i was collecting my research before making the purchase of my CBR if i remember correctly, it was posted in some CBR ownership threads that prolonged usage of Honda throttle FS oil has resulted in oil going bad early, vibrations setting in and gear sticking issues, though i am not able to trace the thread link now.

Hope this helps, all the best..


Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

I do like the thicker 15w40 grade, its awesome for the transmission, but it reduces mileage. Yes, the website lists only 15w40 for Rimula. I might have been mistaken as to seeing a 20w40. The dealer was taking a siesta so I couldn't ask too many questions.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Since you are from chennai like me, I can direct you to one of Shell's Authorised dealer outlet. It is at Royapettah near woodlands Theater. The shop's name is Vijay Lube Point, No 1, Amir Mahal Road (adjacent Lane of Woodlands Theater) Royapettah 600014. Ph: 044-28487772...5 liter R4 15W40 costs Rs. 1550...MRP is 1750.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

psr sir, I did go to Vijay Lube Point, Royapettah, but they were closed on a Sunday. I am tempted to try the HDEO, and I'm pretty sure it won't lead to clutch slippage because its a thicker oil.

However, my previous 15w40 oil reduced the mileage by 2 which would lead to a loss of 600₹ per 6k kms, which negates the savings we make when using Rimula, in the long run. I also noticed, that the cost of both Rimula and the Honda mineral 10w30 were the same.

Thus, I chose the Honda 10w30 mineral, which cost me ₹500 for 1.6l including oil change. Its manufacturer is Idemetsu India. It has the Jaso MA sticker too. Since this oil is lighter, I feel the bike is more eager, and nicer to ride, but that may be temporary. However, mileage has definitely improved compared to the 15w40.

Our manual states that 10w30 is good enough for ambient temps up to 35*C. So this oil will have to be tested in hot summer.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R


ROAD TO RECOVERY (PART - 9):

Hi All,

So the final recorded log for 4th round of Shell Rimula R4 stands at 2,432 kms. I took an appointment at the SVC this Sunday and decided to get the oil changed with motorcycle oil: Shell Advanced Ultra 10W 40 FS oil. But first thing first! the most annoying chain slider coming off repeatedly had really got me pissed off. I asked the mechanic to try some "desi jugaad" (local quick fix) to try and see if we can continue using the existing chain slider without having to replace it with a new one which i suspect may come off again in a few hundred kms.

The mechanic took some time and then devised the following method. He first dis-assembled the gear lever side foot rest assembly to get a better access to the top and bottom part of the swing arm where the chain slider rests. He first inspected the top part of the chain slider. Luckily the earlier glue applied has done its job and the top half of the chain slider has bonded properly with the top part of the swing arm so there are no signs of that one coming off. He then made a deep incision on both the top and bottom half of the chain slider and then put a zip tie to lock both the top and bottom half of the chain slider securely to the swing arm. But before that, he cleaned up the lower part of the chain slider and the swing arm, applying glue on both the swing arm and the chain slider, he first made it stick to the surface and then with the help of the zip tie, tightened the whole thing in its place.











Pic 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5: The chain slider being inspected and the lower half first cleaned and then stuck back to the lower half of the swing arm with the help of quick drying glue. Note the deep incision made for the zip tie cord to lock in and tighten both the upper and lower half of the chain slider.


The basic idea is even if the chain bounces around the incision made to securely strap the zip tie will not come in contact with the chain due to the rubber extenders on the slider itself as seen in the pics above and hopefully should help me get rid of this problem for good. In the event the zip tie does come in contact and is worn out as a result, i will have to devise some other method and see if a permanent solution can be found. However, for the moment this is what we are going to try. I would also like to add that roughly @7,900 kms, the chain has been mildly adjusted not even by an mm!! So my guess is whatever i am doing seems to be working for extending the chain life rather well!

Moving on, the mechanic then drained the existing Shell Rimula R4 HDEO oil by unbolting the lower drain nut. The oil was allowed to pool inside the collecting vessel. When the oil was inspected, it had a lot of particulate matter and there was a very minute smell of oil burning but not to the extent of what was witnessed with the first round of using Shell Advanced Ultra FS oil. The oil was still sticky and not runny though the colour was pretty much blackish. I feel if i wanted to push it, the oil could have done another 400 - 500 kms before going bad completely. However let us keep the guess work at bay and whenever the next run with Rimula is repeated again, we shall get on with an extended test.



Pic 6: Note the colour of the drained Shell Rimula R4 engine oil from my CBR 250R. It is more or less black but still sticky and not runny.

The mechanic then proceeded with removing the old Yamaha FZ/Byson oil filter. Do note the colour of the pleated paper on the oil filter. Compared to last time, the oil filter seems to be relatively cleaner. However, being cheap as a chocolate bar i went ahead and replaced the old filter with a new one. We did apply a bit of fresh engine oil onto the filter and then proceeded with locking the drain nut back in its place and a fresh batch of Shell Advanced Ultra FS oil being poured into the engine.











Pic 7, 8, 9, 10 & 11: Note the old Yamaha FZ filter taken out from my CBR 250R. Even though it did collect quite a bit of particulate matter the oil filter was relatively in good shape as per visual inspection. Fresh Yamaha FZ/Byson oil filter was installed and then Shell Advanced Ultra FS 10W 40 motorcycle oil was poured in. A total of 1.5 ltrs for this round.

So after the vehicle was inspected properly we then started the bike and let it idle for about 2 - 3 minutes to see if any leaks are discovered or any unwanted sounds become prominent with a change of oil with different viscosity from 15W 40 of Shell Rimula R4 HDEO oil to 10W 40 of Shell Advanced Ultra FS oil. However, nothing out of the ordinary was witnessed. So the bills were cleared and i took the vehicle for a small ride back to home.

OBSERVATIONS:

* As witnessed earlier the vehicle became very silent and vibe free.

* Compared to last time the engine was functioning even smoother.

* The gear shifting became even more slicker than earlier.

* The bike was eager to accelerate though we may conclude that it is to be expected every time fresh batch of oil is poured into any motorcycle.

* I am still witnessing a bit of vibrations beyond 7,000 rpm though having said that, my chain was kept completely dry due to the existing task of fixing the chain slider. I shall lubricate the chain and then do another round of high RPM runs to see if the vibes continue to exist or die down by a large extent.

I will do around 200 - 300 kms of extended riding and report back my observations if any difference in terms of acceleration, smoothness, heat, FE is observed with this batch of FS oil. It has been raining like mad in this part of India so my riding has become very limited. Once, the weather clears, i should be able to find sometime to stretch my CBR's legs

Theoretically now with Rimula R4 finishing all the major coating of ZDDP onto the engine internals, the Shell Ultra will simply maintain it with its much lesser content of the same and also thanks to the earlier clean up session with a high detergent HDEO oil, this time the FS oil should have it relatively easy to keep things ticking in my CBR's engine. But then again only time will tell if the Rimula treatment has been effective for this motorcycle. Until then...


Cheers,

From Halogen to LED

Really good to see you sharing so much info @shv18.

Here's a little input from my end.

More brightness is always nice, and I was looking for a way to increase the brightness of the stock light without any modifications to the CBR. I changed the stock bulb to a Philips Xtreme vision. The fact is that riding at night is pretty risky, and therefore I needed a brighter light. Since I didn't want to tinker about with HID setups which would involve opening the headlight assembly, I was looking for other alternatives. With the advent of LED technology, it is inevitable that they will make their way into automotive lighting. I had settled on choosing a LED based headlight, but there are many options to choose from. The problem is that there are plenty of cheap lights, but they are all show and just glare. You can see many of these cheap lights on vehicles these days, people are fitting them in their vehicles left and right, and they give off a terrible blue glare, while the light output isn't sufficient at all. After a bit of research, I got to know of a company called Cyclops who was manufacturing drop in headlights that also gave a great beam pattern. Looking at videos and other reviews, I understood that these were far brighter than stock halogens and while the cost was a factor, it was justified. @Divya Sharan has purchased one of these.
3800 Lumen H4 LED Headlight bulb





In the meantime, as happens in China, knock-offs of the same Cyclops LED started appearing, and the newer designs were being faithfully copied. I am not sure if they came up with this, or they copied the design from some other source - there are too many sellers. After reaching out to a source, I got to know that there were not many factories manufacturing this sort of item, and it was more than likely you'd be getting the same item that is being sold at a higher cost elsewhere.
Since the cyclops costs about 65USD, plus a lot for shipping and customs, I decided to purchase one of the ebay ones. It came to around 2.3K including shipping and customs.
Here's something similar from another ebay seller
1pc Motorcycle Bike CREE LED Headlight Hi Lo H4 HB2 9003 6000K 40W 4000Lm Bulb | eBay

Pictures : You can see there's almost no difference in the construction of the body to the cyclops H4. The fit and finish is impeccable. The light does not feel like a cheap product.






What I can't make out is whether the LED emitter is a CREE XM-L2. However, on comparison, I find this LED emitter also has two wires inside it.



Compare the above image to the emitter in the H4 LED bulb.


Fitting it in :
Fitting in the light was a straightforward process, I removed the console cowl to easily access the headlight. On opening and fitting it in, I found that the rubber dust seal was just slightly large. After measuring it, I needed to cut about 4mm off the edge. After trimming it, it was a perfect fit. No major modification was needed here, and it's plug and play after trimming..




Brightness :
Before fitting in the assembly, I decided to test it. To say I saw stars is an understatement. The light was VERY bright just at low beam. I quickly turned it off and finished the assembly.



1) Low beam (notice the great cutoff)


2) High beam


Also note how there's no additional glare compared to cheap HIDs that so many people put in without projectors.


NOTE : The highway pictures are taken pre-adjustment. I found the light was aimng slightly higher than the Philips XV, and therefore I had to turn the adjustment screw a few turns anti clockwise to level it.
On the highway - superb brightness and easy to highlight distant objects.
LOW

High


Another location (note the reflective green direction board in the distance and the man walking on the side of the road - he was much more visible than the camera picture suggests)
Low


High


Just for comparison, here's the old Xtreme Vision on the highway. This was pretty bright, but given the limitations of the terrible phone camera, it's easy to make out that the LED bulb is far brighter.
Low

High


The best part (or not, depends on the perspective) about this new light is that both the High/Low emitters are on when using high beam.

Cons - not found any yet, except that this has a lower CRI compared to halogens, however, the additional brightness makes up for that.
TO be tested - fan life. Since this type of LED bulb has a fan to dissipate the heat passing from the LED to the aluminum heatsink, it's a component that can fail over time. However, if it lasts just two to three years, it'll have been well worth the expense.

Glare - none in the low beam, a fair amount on high (slightly more than halogens), however, you are not supposed to ride with high beams on in the city anyway. It does not dazzle oncoming traffic on low beam. The biggest advantage I noticed immediately is that people start giving way when you use the pass light. This didn't happen earlier with the Xtreme Vision, perhaps it's the white light that does this.

Thanks for reading this mini-review.

Re: From Halogen to LED

I have the exact same LED fitted to my cbr250 and yeah the light is brighter than halogens. [emoji7]
I bought the bulb in January '16. I've done many night rides with it and many more long rides including the very recent Mumbai-Bangalore-Mumbai with the light on most of the time, the led is very good never gave up even for a while it kept on working even in the hot afternoon bangalore traffic.

Ive used many other cheaps leds too like the 700-1500rs ones none of them were this good except for another one which looks kinda the same as this but with 3point leds facing upwards when fitted rather than this 2 left 2right setup and that was 30w compare to the updated 40w.




-Zaid[emoji111]

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

A sample of Cyclops 3800 Lm H4 LED from my Karizma ZMR - just the low beam and its reach!



Now, available on eBay India website - https://m.ebay.in/itm/131640198547?_mwBanner=1

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Thanks @AK3D for sharing the latest mod on your CBR. I am sure, it will help a lot of readers who look forward to learn something new every time they pay a visit here (this includes your's truly!!! ) Though i really like the idea of using something new which sounds great on paper: with a total higher output of the LED light minus the heat generated by OEM Halogens, my biggest concern is exactly what you have pointed out: The life of the radiator fan working at the back to keep things cool and also the life of the ballast/the voltage controller for the LED light itself. On a cheap one we can't be certain what quality of parts have been used and whether it will survive the onslaught of the Indian weather mixed with heavy rains and mud bath. If you have a multimeter kindly do share the changes in load observed on the electrical system post the LED headlight mod as theoretically: with lesser wattage required to emit more light: it should have some positive effect on the net current required by the overall system Vs power generated by the alternator which should in turn provide more electricity for the battery to charge quickly and also should help increase the life of the electrical system.

Would request you to do share your ownership experience with the LED light as you continue clocking kms.


Interesting! and glad too that we now do have access to stuff found in the outside market even though the price is on the steeper side.

Thanks for sharing your experience mate...



Cheers,

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

This is the major manufacturer of these bulbs - a company called Shilan.
New V16 Turbo LED head light H4 40W-Turbo LED HEAD LIGHT-SHILAN HID & LED FACTORY; THE BIGGEST FACTORY OF HID, TRUST OF US, BECAUSE ALWAYS WE MADE HIGH QUALITY PRODUCTS . WWW.SHILANHID.COM

They rate these bulbs as waterproof, and while I'm not going to test it out myself, here are a few video links to (similar) LED bulbs.





To answer your question about components, I found the build quality surprisingly good, and you can also make that out in the pictures. The plastic is very neat, the finish is spot on, there is even minute grooving in the metal finish as seen here which gives a qualitative aspect that is usually ignored in cheap knockoffs.



One can only speculate about the internals, but given the comparatively high price, I have no doubt that the Chinese sellers have brought this down to a lower price point. While Cyclops sells this bulb for 64USD, they sell for about 25-30 on ebay or Aliexpress (per piece). That is still not cheap, and given that the cost of a CREE XM-L LED is about 2USD per piece (4 of them to a bulb), I am sure the costs are brought down in the wholesale market.

We'll only find out about the fan when it gives up the ghost.

Another interesting aspect of this is that fanless LED bulbs are now out in the market, they use copper mesh belts as a heatsink.
Newest 40W 5000LM h4 Cre e LED Headlight Kit Car Driving Lamp Bulbs 6000K White H4 9004 9007 H13 led headlight bulb-in Light Source from Automobiles & Motorcycles on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

Even better news is this - bulbs with newer Philips ZES LEDs that almost mimic the halogen beam pattern, but with a much higher light output.



We can also get the regular LED bulbs (not cyclops) off ebay for 4K a pair.
LED Headlight Bulb H4 Size OG 40W Cree LED 3 Times More Brighter Than Stock Bulb | eBay



EDIT : Also found that Philips has been selling their own Ultinon brand of LED headlamps that conform to EU and DOT beam pattern spread. The Chinese manufacturers are as usual copying this design and bringing down the cost.




Here's a nice review - http://www.xenondepot.com/Philips-12...eview-s/62.htm

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Nice discussion going on Led headlamps.

Led are excellent but india is still nascent when it comes to LED headlights. Sadly lights available in markets are il focused and have no good beam pattern.

I have seen Philips lumiled and they are excellent but can't understand why philips doesn't launch it here. Also the philips ultinon are very nice but still philips doesn't bring here.

Cyclops are also too nice but price is really killing it.

Also Osram and Hella are taking out there Led bulbs but none is available in india.

Infact the matrix headlight on Audi is manufactured by Hella. I am myself searching for a good Led headlamp.

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

i have been using cyclops 3800 lumen for good 10 months now and i cant even think of shifting back to halogens ever.
rode highways nights after nights hitting a ton for hours.. was just never possible with the halogens ever.

my setup includes. 10W cree spot beams 30 degree makes bout 2000 lumens for the pair mounted on frame sliders.
cyclops 20/40 LED headlight another 2000/3800 lumen and i n pitch dark doing 100 kmph on national highways i easily have good visibility for 400+ metres

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

The Cyclops really looks good.just wanted to know if it can be fit in duke 200.don't like the stock bulbs.
Also will it be a direct fit ,I.e plugand play

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Where did you guy Cyclops from? Imported from USA?? how much?

Re: The story so far.. My Honda CBR 250R

Please refer to my above post. Philips are using their LUMILEDS brand LED in their Ultinon brand LED bulbs. These likely use Z-ES emitters and are also available in India. They are at about 11 or 12K though.

Luxeon Z ES
LUXEON Z ES | Lumileds
Ultinon
X-treme Ultinon LED LED car lamp 12953BWX2 | Philips

Cyclops (and related mass manufacture LED bulbs by Shilan and other companies with a good beam pattern) are available in India as well. There are options available when one searches for them.