Bajaj has only got stakes in Ktm, so it doesn't mean that now all of the designing in Ktm is done by bajaj, just look at Tata they own Jaguar Land Rover does this mean now tata engineers will design vehicles for JLR no infact it's the vice-versa, acquiring these technological advanced automobile companies Indian companies are getting to know more about technology and how to use it, bajaj has used the whole bottome half of the engine from duke, and have just bolted 3 plugs and 4 valves in the cylinder design, and if Dohc is a waste then putting 4 valves in 125cc motor is also a waste a gimmick.

First off it is copying. but in this case it is legal because bajaj is partnered with KTM. Bajaj doesn't own KTM. and as far as gulsar developers are concerned they honestly at least copied the bike right making sure the engine is the same as on a pulsar, there is a thread about it you might want to check it out. with the NS bajaj has reduced power by converting the technologically superior DOHC engine from the duke to a SOHC engine for their flashy albeit useless triple spark idea. also the compression ratio was brought down to make the bike smoother at the cost of top speed and pickup. and then they used a carburetor on this bike which is laughable. if they really "OWN" KTM as you say then why not make the engine better or come up with an all new different engine entirely, I mean they obviously have KTM R&D department and design department at their disposal. No, Bajaj "OWNS" nothing they are partnered with KTM just like other manufacturers are partnered with bigger names too.

Going by what you're saying bajaj probably shouldn't have even come up with DTSI as it is pricier tech and more complex. and there is a discover in their lineup which is four valve. Also if bajaj wanted to provide affordable anything they would not advertise their bikes as "premium" and "sports segment" and there are in fact cheaper bikes in the market than most of their lineup.
And you say DOHC are duds below 3000rpm huh.............. well why don't we review that. let's look at both CBR 150 and 250 and the Ninja 300 which are all premium bikes with respectable power figures but none have a problem with generating power under 3000rpm in fact they are famous for their low end torque and city riding capabilities and FYI mahindra tractor is a High compression over-square engine but its diesel so no four valve DOHC needed and it suits farming fine. A bikes capability within a power band is decided not by its cubic capacity but by its cylinder arrangement, its crank and stroke which produce the torque, and its gearbox. which unsurprisingly have the same spec for 200NS as it does for duke 200 only made more cheap with different metallurgical quality. If every bike is designed keeping customers in mind then explain the mindless Hero Moto Corp like reproduction of the same bike with absolutely minor changes that are hard to detect with the naked eye. Yes bajaj has produced some worthy bikes but they are not the best. As far as performance to price is concerned KTM offers it too and there is Hyosung with its 250 lineup, Honda with the CBR lineup, Hell TVS with the apache RTR. oodles of fun the RTR at most affordable prices and highly reliable too.
I said what I said keeping in mind Performance, value for money, comfort, and quality and 200 NS fails at all those fronts. in fact P220 is a much better option as far as value for money is concerned and P200NS doesn't make sense as long as P220 exists with only 1.3BHP less power. I would rather spend money to buy P220 any day than to buy an FI version of CRAP.

Bajaj has only got stakes in Ktm, so it doesn't mean that now all of the designing in Ktm is done by bajaj, just look at Tata they own Jaguar Land Rover does this mean now tata engineers will design vehicles for JLR no infact it's the vice-versa, acquiring these technological advanced automobile companies Indian companies are getting to know more about technology and how to use it, bajaj has used the whole bottome half of the engine from duke, and have just bolted 3 plugs and 4 valves in the cylinder design, and if Dohc is a waste then putting 4 valves in 125cc motor is also a waste a gimmick.

But the four valves does make the difference buddy , compare every model of bajaj which comes with four valves with any other brand you notice the difference in top speed and mileage . pulser 135Ls can cross pulser 150dtsi in mileage and top speed.

as far as gulsar developers are concerned they honestly at least copied the bike right making sure the engine is the same as on a pulsar, there is a thread about it you might want to check it out. with the NS bajaj has reduced power by converting the technologically superior DOHC engine from the duke to a SOHC engine for their flashy albeit useless triple spark idea. also the compression ratio was brought down to make the bike smoother at the cost of top speed and pickup. and then they used a carburetor on this bike which is laughable. if they really "OWN" KTM as you say then why not make the engine better or come up with an all new different engine entirely,
Going by what you're saying bajaj probably shouldn't have even come up with DTSI as it is pricier tech and more complex. and there is a discover in their lineup which is four valve. Also if bajaj wanted to provide affordable anything they would not advertise their bikes as "premium" and "sports segment" and there are in fact cheaper bikes in the market than most of their lineup.

And you say DOHC are duds below 3000rpm huh.............. well why don't we review that. let's look at both CBR 150 and 250 and the Ninja 300 which are all premium bikes with respectable power figures but none have a problem with generating power under 3000rpm in fact they are famous for their low end torque
and city riding capabilities

FYI mahindra tractor is a High compression over-square engine but its diesel so no four valve DOHC needed and it suits farming fine.

I said what I said keeping in mind Performance, value for money, comfort, and quality and 200 NS fails at all those fronts. in fact P220 is a much better option as far as value for money is concerned and P200NS doesn't make sense as long as P220 exists with only 1.3BHP less power. I would rather spend money to buy P220 any day than to buy an FI version of CRAP.

Bajaj has only got stakes in Ktm, so it doesn't mean that now all of the designing in Ktm is done by bajaj, just look at Tata they own Jaguar Land Rover does this mean now tata engineers will design vehicles for JLR no infact it's the vice-versa, acquiring these technological advanced automobile companies Indian companies are getting to know more about technology and how to use it, bajaj has used the whole bottome half of the engine from duke, and have just bolted 3 plugs and 4 valves in the cylinder design, and if Dohc is a waste then putting 4 valves in 125cc motor is also a waste a gimmick.

OMG, so you are telling bajaj should have made a clone of duke 200 and sold it for lesser price? ala Gulsar? that would be so cheap of bajaj. Creating a whole new engine from grounds up takes more R&D and costs shootup so where exactly Bajaj will make it cheaper? DTSI pricier? how much would a spark plug cost? and anyways they are cutting down on emissions which helps in cutting cost for catalytic converter so where exactly is the disadvantage?
Bajaj is able to market it as sports segment because the competition company bikes (or lack of it) at similar budget is not sporty enough, tell me if you have budget of 1 lac which other company bike would you buy?

CBR 150 and Ninja known for lower end torque? OMG, guess you have never ridden CBR 150 below 3000 rpm, check out any reviews or shootouts between r15 and cbr150, the CBR is always cursed for lack of low end torque, the beauty of CBR 150 is above 8000 revs and below that the R15 just pulls away so easily.

Woah, now this is news to me, could you please please please let me know which Mahindra tractor uses over-square engine layout!!!

I own a 220 and have ridden the 200ns for quite sometime and i have no problem accepting the 200 NS is a better machine overall, its not just the bhp, the weight distribution, handling, braking everything is better in 200ns than 220.

I never said anywhere that Bajaj is designing bikes for ktm, why would ktm allow to design all its bikes??? Ktm has the expertise in racing and they make way better engines than bajaj, What i told was the D200 was developed jointly between KTM and bajaj here in india.
Did i say DOHC is waste anywhere? I just told that each configurations help in defining powerband and SOHC has better low and mid range and DOHC is better at higher rpms and top end performance although is slightly complex and costlier.

Definitely man 4 valves will make huge difference no doubt about that as you are forcing more fuel in the engine, so more power and better top end, and better mileage as you are using two plugs, but the question is that do one really need to put 4 valves in an engine to make all this happen, and with every increased cc engine that comes out of bajaj stable they are increasing the no of plugs as they only know that by increasing valves and spark plugs better combustion can be achieved.

[MENTION=11460]road_ripper[/MENTION]
1) CBR 150 and Ninja known for lower end torque? OMG, guess you have never ridden CBR 150 below 3000 rpm, check out any reviews or shootouts between r15 and cbr150, the CBR is always cursed for lack of low end torque, the beauty of CBR 150 is above 8000 revs and below that the R15 just pulls away so easily.

:thumbup:True said buddy in cbr we have to rev hard to stay in a powerband and in r15 its a lot of ease.

2) Woah, now this is news to me, could you please please please let me know which Mahindra tractor uses over-square engine layout!!!

:thumbup:Oversquare engine are high revving machines but have less torque compare to other..so no chance at all

3) I own a 220 and have ridden the 200ns for quite sometime and i have no problem accepting the 200 NS is a better machine overall, its not just the bhp, the weight distribution, handling, braking everything is better in 200ns than 220.
:thumbup:Very true

3) SOHC has better low and mid range and DOHC is better at higher rpms and top end performance although is slightly complex and costlier.