Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

I think its high time to rename this thread as 'Yamaha R25 price speculation'

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

The R25, if it comes localised parts to a good extent can be expected to be priced below 2.5 but if not then it will surely not be below 2.5L. It's just not possible for them to sell it at price and make any decent money. But this bike is well made and supposed to offer a better choice to people looking at CBR250 and and low price alternative to people looking at N300. So, it is kind of placed in between and leaning more toward N300 in character and would be priced likewise.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Yeah my bad. I meant to say Duke 390 is in the market for long. Hence you probably know what to expect from RC.

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No matter what we discuss here, Yamaha will price R25 it deems fit. When R15 was launched at higher than expected price most were of the opinion that it would fail because of its price. But people slowly appreciated what it was all about.

Same may happen with R25. Yamaha is not known to price its products attractively. It is buyers who have to sooner or later adapt to its pricing. I dont see why it would be any different this time, especially when their year on year numbers are still positive.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

I just hope Yamaha doesn't read these "premium-premium" posts and get carried away, and price the R25 uber expensively!

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Yeah !! Maybe I missed the central theme of your post. Happens to IT people. BTW, apart from biking knowledge I am also picking up on my reading and writing/composing skill and all thanks to xBhp.

Point noted and agreed upon.

Seriously bro, if Yamaha really place the price at the range you're saying, I will personally give you a treat. Because I would be saving a lot of money then.

Again point taken and agreed.

I don't quite agree over here. Some machines are there, which are launched as premium. Otherwise, potential people will not buy it. That's why there's the term of 'Limited Edition' and 'Special Edition' in almost all the products. Exclusivity is the word. Manufacturers charge a premium over the standard ones for these as those are exclusive. For example, Fiat has both Punto and 500 in India. But there's a difference of almost 9L INR, because 500 is premium product. People drool over Litreclass bikes, Triples, Bugatti , Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis as they can't buy and other way that's the same reason why potential buyers buy those mean machines. They offer exclusivity. Tell me, if those products are being sold as mass products will there be a hype created about them? No. Can't Kawasaki sell the N300 at ~3L INR? Can't Yamaha sell the R15 at ~1L INR. Yes they can. But they offer it as premium. Why? It will give their customers a premium feeling which you'll experience personally. That premium feeling is of zero value but still people love to be felt premium. That's the same reason why I said that Yamaha may think of making R25 as premium bike. Cause then the potential buyers will feel premium, though the whole 'premium' thing is nothing but marketing gimmick.


I am not hell bent. I'm a broke person totally. But If Yamaha launches R25 at 2.25L INR, trust me, as I said before, I will give you a treat.

But it was a good discussion with you over R25. Let's not argue anymore. Let Yamaha launch the R25 here and then we can start from where we're leaving today.

Yeah !! Very true !!! Same way Pulsar sale is more than FZ. Cause of the price. But most of the people who have ridden/owned a FZ swear by it, which is not exactly the case for both Pulsars or RTRs.

It's my personal opinion only.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Pricing will play a very important role because there are already few big players in this segment
the pricing should be below two lakhs if it wants to capture the market because the cbr 250 r abs retails at more or less 2lakhs if i am not wrong
then there is alredy the ktms 200 and 390 both below 2lakhs
then the hero hx 250 and bajaj ss 200 r coming in the market
so its only and only the value for monney that yamaha needs to prove to sell this product in the indian market.
then again i being personally an yamaha user i know that yamaha is very reliable and very rough and tough but still at a perticular point i think if it comes to india with a price tag of 2.70 lakhs it wont sell as much as the yamaha r15 sold and got success
THE PRICING AND VALUE FOR MONNEY WILL DRAW THE FINAL VERDICT ON ITS SELL STORY IN INDIA..

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I THINK WE SHOULDNT BE WORRIED ABOUT THE PRICE IN INDONASIA
THE PRICE OF YAMAHA R15 IN INDONASIA COSTED 28 MILLION RUPIAH WHICH WAS THEN 1.50 LAKS IN INR VALUE BUT IT WAS RETAILED IN INDIA AT A PRICE TAG OF 1.08 LAKS ON ROAD KOLKATA AND CBR 150 RETAILED AT 2.45 INR IN INDONASIA WHERE AS AT 1.15 LAKS IN KOLKATA THEN

SO THE PRICE WILL BE MUCH LESS IN INDIA I THINK

AT LEAST 50000 TO 60000 LESS

I MIGHT BE WRONG ALSO
WHAT EVER I SAID, I SAID ON SPECULATIONS

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia


I also agree the R25 is not in competition with the CBR...due to their different characters in engine.

And about that percent of customer who knows the difference between the Single and the twin is not greater than the list of customer who consider price factor...at least in India...I would like to quote an example that why RTR sells more than FZ in India...as they are in the same category its simply due to the price factor, where FZ is expensive than the RTR, which leads the RTR to sell in better volumes over the FZ. and

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

It's worth if one is willing to shell out 2.50 -2.70 Lac

Sent from my GT-N7100 using xBhp Connect mobile app

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia


the wait is finally over
but is the wait worth the time ????
a very big question

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

According to me yamaha will definitely localize yamaha r25 because of following reasons:

1> yamaha knows very well that companies like triumph, hyosung etc are coming up with localize sub 300cc category bikes as their plants are under construction which means yamaha will make its future safe rather than depending on CKD route.

2> Kawasaki is competing with yamaha in a segment only. As we all yamaha is a much bigger company in India with all the resources and power to localize r25. That is why yamaha should manufacture r25 in India to trump kawasaki and honda with one shot. People here are comparing it with kawasaki a lot which makes no sense at all as localizing r25 will require much lesser effort than localizing ninja300 because yamaha is a established company in India with Good and reliable vendor base and resources.

3> As far as business is concerned. I think yamaha should earn profits with volumes in a price sensitive market like India rather then earning more margins from low sales.

4> I know yamaha r25 is not direct rival to CBR 250 or RC series or HX 250r or Mojo or upcoming TVS 250 but any thing can happen in India. So yamaha will try their best to keep the price in check so that they can compete with established companies like bajaj, tvs and hero who are known for their VFM products. People can pay 20-40000 rs/- extra for their brand name and quality which they offer but they will not shell out 1.25-1.5 lacs extra for yamaha.

5> Remember when yamaha launched r15 in India. It was expensive than its rivals but it offered a lot of things which were exclusive and unique. As a result of that mind set of Indian customers changed drastically which affected karizma and p220 sales a lot, however these two bikes were in lower price range. I think this time also yamaha is thinking of giving some thing unique and exclusive at 20-30% extra price which can change the game again and by doing this it can compete with army of single cylinder bikes in 250-300 cc range like cbr 250, hx 250, tvs 250, triumph 250, mojo 300, hyosung gd 250 etc and twin cylinder bikes like ninja 300, hyosung gt250r etc with single weapon called YAMAHA R25....

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

I don't know in general about twins but the Ninja's have a 10K service interval as compared to the 5K for the KTMs. So the higher parts prices are almost offset by the lesser frequency of visits.
I don't remember coming out of the svc after a paid visit having spent lesser than 3.5-4k. The last service for my duke 200 was INR 7K with only the chain-sprocket kit change and a fork seal replacement anything over than the usual.

The Triumphs also have a lower frequency recommended if I am not wrong. So the KTMs are a bit intensive which can be ascribed to the not so stellar parts quality.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

IMO, R25 will reach its targeted base in India irrespective of the price. People who have had patience for years will hardly be bothered about price. Even when R15 came out, it was way too costly as a 150cc. But look around today and count the number of R15 on the streets. Performance, reliability and quality matters to most rather than the price when it comes to a long term investment. There are several 150CC bikes which will cost you under 75K. And there is R15 at 1.25L+.
And yes it's an Yamaha. There are many people who were and are lucky enough to enjoy a ride on a RD350 and know what performance means and were eagerly waiting for anything similar from the Japs - must be excited enough with R25.
BTW, I don't have the money to buy a bike for the projected price of R25 in India!!!

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

I am really sorry to say that you have completely missed the central theme of my post. When you read something, do you ever try to understand the theme behind a piece or you just read each sentence on its own? Happened with me on the N300 thread sometime back.

I hope my reply helps you understand.


Did I ever say that the pulsar's are better built than the yamahas? In fact I started my post by stating that The RC would be inferior quality wise compared to the R25.
And yes I know people are not idiots to go just by ads. I in fact brought adverts up since someone had mentioned the Nano not selling because it's perceived as cheap. But I also know that ads can make or break a product. If a product has a great ad campaign to support it, it can rise above its rivals which are all basically the same.
The pulsar ads were not the ONLY reason pulsar sold, but these ads created a brand recall value and at least forced the junta to consider it and not go blindly buy the CBZ. Tell me why the suzuki GS150 didn't sell as well despite being well engineered and considered to be a gem? because they didn't push it well. Suzuki don't have the brand image so they needed to create one by advertorials, which they didn't. The pulsar's now have a brand image, so they don't push it as aggressively as they used to before.If you don't have a brand image and still you don't advertise, then your superior product would fail. You'd be surprised to know the money spent on ad campaigns by all sorts of companies to push their product despite knowing people are idiots who buy just because of the ads.
But I digress. I had wanted to concentrate on something else you posted.
Precisely this :

"
Tell me one thing, how many users who really love biking, has spoken highly of Pulsars (talking about the 150s, 180s and the old 200s and excluding the 220s) regarding the quality in all aspect starting from switch gears to engine

"
No I haven't met many and most guys I know of would ***** about the parts quality. In fact I make it a point to rant about the parts quality of teh KTMs whenever I have to visit the svc.

On the other hand I have found that most guys universally praise the N250 for its parts quality, vibration free ride and the screamer engine. It is generally seen as head and shoulders above anything here in India.
Very few of them, however, own the bike.
I think what Yamaha and every other company targets is profits more than perception. Like what the RDA manger in Avatar said : "There is only one thing the shareholders don't like to see more than bad press, and that is a bad quarterly statement"

I think they have a product which if manufactured here can prove to be an absolute winner and they'd really commit harakiri by pricing it around 3 lacs


And this :

"Now, you can see old R15s which are still running with the same enthusiasm as it was when taken out of the showroom. Don't you think that this has to do something with the price"

Yes, but the price differential for that quality doesn't have to be a lac more. I am no expert in automotive sector supply chain and pricing, but whatever small I have learnt from a KTM engineer I knew, is that the vendors are broadly speaking, same for all the major OEMs. We have gotten used to expect premium pricing from the japs. So if the Yam is manufactured here, there is no reason it can't be priced around 2-2.25 lac mark. If it's a CKD then it'd be around 3 lac.
A high price tag doesn't always mean better quality. The GT250 R is price 3+ lacs. I don't think it's revered as the Ninja?
The better quality of the Yams can be maintained by not charging astronomical sums.
I am not saying Yamaha will do this. All I am saying is that for the product to be a success like the CBR, it has to be around 2-2.5 lacs. May be 2.5 max. After that the superior performance of the RC would sow seeds of doubts in the mind of a customer who would prefer a reliable twin but is not a super staunch Yammie fan.


And this :

Do you really think Yamaha will target 'aam junta' for R25. I guess not. 'aam junta' might not give a damn about a twin or single but a good rider will, cause only they will know why people drool over a twin compared to a single. I'm not going into comparision with RC cause I don't want the quality of R25 to be like those from KTM/Bajaj stable

I think they should target aam junta IF THEY WANT to emulate the success of the CBR. People drool over litrebikes, triples ,bugatti , porsches, ferraris,lamborginis. Not all of them can buy them. May be yamaha will do what you want and place it in the superpremium segment and be happy with a few hundred bikes per year


And this:

"So you want Yamaha to bring out a bike with the build quality of CBR250 or the other? No we would not like that. We are ready to pay a bit more but want a real well buit bike"

Why are you hell bent on paying a bit more? Why the quality cannot be maintained for a mass product(this is relatively speaking, 2.25 lacs is in no way a mass product).I understand the RCs may cut a few corners here and there to keep costs down (and it shows too)since they have superior equipments, Metz, USD forks(this 22-25k alone as a separate part from the svc), steel braided lines, lightweight chassis(a lightweight chassis means better materials for the same strength and lesser weight). The yammie is not light, has conventional telescopic forks and in all probability MRF/IRC tyres if it lands here. There is so much savings there. I think the amount saved is enough to offset the amount spent for general fit and finish and better cycle parts. May be a bit more? Of course all this applies if it's manufactured here, which I keep on saying is paramount for it to succeed here.
Yammie needs to grab market share and should be content with being a fringe player like Kawa.

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia

Hi all,
I am Noob, but would like to share something here for discussion sake...

Adding a bit more to the speculation and cost of ownership into the picture, if we look at the specs sheet, it is clear that compared to a single cylinder everything else on a twin is more translating to more expense on maintenance and general running costs per km:

(PS: expense calculation based on assumptions and looking at other 250s and 300s currently in the Indian market. if you don't agree, please don't come after me with pitch forks later!! )

* Engine requires 2.4 ltrs of engine oil just like other Ninjas = 3 bottles of FS oil = Rs. 2400/- (Assumption: Rs. 800/- per 1 ltr bottle)
* Air filter : 150 - 260
* Oil Filter : 150 - 200
* Clutch plates: 3500 - 4500
* Brake Pads: 3500 - 4500
* Chain & Sprockets: 3500 - 4500
* Fibre Panel cost: speculative but if localised may cost as cheap as a CBR 250R
* FE based on other P-twins: 22 - 27kmpl
* Tires lasting about 10k kms: 8,000 - 14,000 (Based on Assumption: Yamaha will follow the KTM road, offering grippiest and sticky tires keeping in line with the R series mantra!!)

So a basic service with just the oil change + oil filter + air filter+ Labour will translate to an average Rs.3500 - 4000/- even if say the service interval is @6000 kms.

Add fuel cost to it, it automatically makes an R25 land up into the premium segment. Whether it is priced at sub 2 lakhs or 3+lakhs INR, i believe should Yamaha decide to launch it in India they are already aware that the expected sale nos. in this market for an R25 will be lesser due to the above mentioned factor. So lets say even if some how they price the vehicle in the lower 2 lakhs category, they will make money on the spares and other parts Just like Kawi-bajaj is currently doing: busy fleecing their customers charging ridiculous amounts even on items manufactured locally. As it is, running the nos. above will automatically alienate a lot of posers and price sensitive juntas from ever going for this motorcycle in India..

The only way an R25 will make sense to Yamaha is if they follow a global launch to compete in the new learner's segment (A2 licence) in European countries, the US and the Asian market which will include India.. i believe it will be the natural step for Yamaha as they don't want to be left out to take their share of pie Honda and others have already sunk their teeth into.

Just my perspective...

Cheers,

Re: Yamaha R25 Launched in Indonesia


Watching an old timer post, I couldn't resist myself. I am a noob like you too. And even I can say that the R25 is an attempt to make a Ninja 250 beater. The peak power, twin cylinder even the pricing in Indonesia mirrors the Ninja 250. Why? Because Indonesians buy at least 10 times more Ninja 250 than Indians (the ratio might be even more after the price hike because of the Ninja 300).

Indonesians are far more informed and savvy when it comes to features and specs of their motorcycles. In India, Pricing plays a major part. The Honda CBR250R hasn't done well in UK, Indonesia or even in India. At least in Indonesia its because of its single cylinder configuration.

The most rocking and ones of the most profitable price range to play in India right now is the 1.25 - 1.5 Lakh one. One in which Royal Enfield is easily and very profitably ruling.

Question: Even if Yamaha magically gets the R25 at the price of the CBR250R in India, how much can it expect to sell?
Answer: Definitely not more than the CBR250R. The extra cylinder makes no difference to the masses that would buy the bike (Sorry xBhpians, this is India not Indonesia). Now would that be enough for Yamaha to manufacture in India or then import it directly from Indonesia instead at a higher price.

We can go on speculating... but in business all that matters is profit.