Speed and mileage are lapped up by customers very easily, I hope 140+ kmph is true speed and not a marketing gimmick like 109kmpl (which failed badly) and now no one believes Bajaj's mileage claims.

Why do you compare Bajaj with Honda or Yamaha

Tell me HONDA & YAMAHA have been making bikes for decades now... And Bajaj is company who have done loads of things on their own in pst 10 years... When Honda or Yamaha makes small capacity bikes... they can take loads of help from old expert Honda (Yamaha) people who work on litre bikes... cruisers... moto sports... Moto GP... etc etc... So for Honda & Yamaha everything is at their disposal.. And honestly NO R&D is being done over here in India... its being done in Japan.. in the most sophisticated laboratories of Honda & yamaha... which has taken years for them to build.

for Bajaj its not... they tear apart the engines... study the designs.. do loads of R&D and then come up with their product... which in my view is much more comendable in comparision to Honda's effort.

P.s - Bajaj is not having the most sophisticated labs... On top of that... Bajaj is doing loads inhouse... not like other indian manufacturer... TVS taking help from AVL.. to design their engines...

So when you compare Bajaj with Honda.. its comparision of 5-6 decades of experience.. to 1 decade of experience. (Yamaha's launched their first bike in 1958.. And Honda made their first bike in 1950s again). Is it really logical.

Man HOnda & Yamaha have been participating in Le mans race.. Moto Gp... and what not... Honda has been making cars too... so the kind of expertise they have inhouse.. its out of the world... I have personally spent a good time in Honda.. witnessing how good they are at making engines... (Honda Cars - greater Noida)..

Race - where you develop engines which have to run at their peak loads... continuously... There are tremendous amout of stresses on engine at high rpms... and yet deliver the best performance... where a micro second delay can be a reason for you loosing the title. When you develop Racing engines... you use the best technology to develop them and take your R&D to next levels... And R&D budgets for racing bikes is much more huge than budget for street bikes. More budget means.. you have the freedom to experiment and test more... there is liberty to creativity... when you experiment more... you learn more... You use best manufacturing processes and commit mistakes.. and then learn from them... and deliver the best next time. You use manufaturing processes whihc you cant think of using in mass production. You need accuracies where difference of a micron can lead to drop in pressure from Combustion chamber... etc etc... and when you get expert in making the race engines... making street bikes are a game for you. Look at it this way... When any new class litre bikes are launched it always said - This bikes takes its character from Moto Gp version. That means.. guys from racing team worked with team working on street version... slipper clutch... forged pistons... ceramic brake pads... etc.. etc..

Bajaj is not developing racing engines... cars or bikes.. whatever... so they dont have the capability what Yamaha & Honda has.... they make autorickshas...
And despite that.. they have managed to give an awesome competition to both Honda & Yamaha... And thats why I respect...

To tell you guys... Yamaha was actually scared to show FZ16 in Auto expo.. Yamaha was cared of Bajaj.. coz somewhwre they thought that... Bajaj is the only company... which can spoil the game.. what if.. bajaj comes out wiht a bike better looking than FZ16.. They know.. bajaj is aggressive. And this real incident came from my source who was actively involved in Launching of FZ16.

When you compare Bajaj with Yamaha & honda.. its like comparing a man with his grand father... And I bet... as a Man.. Bajaj is going good. We will see 10 years down the line...

When Yamaha or Honda product fails in India.. they have the backing from HONDA or YAMAHA Japan.. their parent company... I remember when i was in yamaha.. doing my training (2004)... they recieved 200 Crores.. from Yamaha Japan.. coz Yamaha was not doing good... And loads of their bikes were returned from showrooms.. coz the showrooms shut down.. or showrooms were not able to sell Yamaha bikes for months. A lot of 400 bikes was recieved by Yamaha from some state.. including Enticer... Crux. Even now when yamaha launched R15.. they had been granted fund mounting to 800 crores (if I recall it correctly)... So Yamaha japan has its hands over Yamaha India. Similarly Honda Japan.

BUT WHEN BAJAJ FAILS... they have to pay their own bills. There is no parent company to support bajaj with crores and crores.. So fear of failure for bajaj is more than Honda india or yamaha india.

OK. Long time since I did some moderator work.

No more posts on mileage, no more talk of drags, no more OTs in short.

Let's keep the discussion sane shall we? I'm actually enjoying some posts here

MOD Message:All the OT posts will be cleaned by today evening.

@All-Please try to keep our work at the bare minimum level.

Peace Every1 Peace.......

@inflammable --- nice write-up...... n u disclosing Yammies financial stats...... it might be a problem for u....... what if Yammie people reading this......... few posts back it was said ---- its news thread and not ownership thread........

evey1 saying whats Bajaj's policy........ its always clear........ give the best of everything to the customer at a reasonable rate....... which other co. is doing this...... compare the products--- features, specs and price.......

you like Honda or Yamaha or whatever co. it maybe...... but its not fair to criticise a co. everytime....... we all know who changed the biking scenario in India...... after its changed now foreign cos. coming with sub-standard products and charging more...... n few people are so happy with this formula....... y because they have brand name....... so aren't these co. capable of giving us 250 or 300 segment(few days back Honda launched 300cc in Brazil)...... they dnt have to invest a lot of money in so called R&D for Indian condition........ ask them....... convince them....... n then see who is the first one to bring another change......

So lets recap what we've got so far:

- Black theme.
- Likely carbed.
- Maybe frame/suspension improvements.
- Maybe new exhaust.

All this is not confirmed, but I would assume Bajaj is going to try and do something good, after all, they are trying to sell a product. The biggest let down is the fact that they might have removed the FI system. One thing to remember is that a proper carb setup can deliver as much power as an FI system. So then it's just a matter of seeing what they have done to the rest of the bike, if they did manage to improve the handling and other things I don't see why it can't be considered a good thing.

I say, let's all wait before we grab the torches and pitchforks and see what actually arrives on 23rd.

Yaaaawn! Good Morning, did I miss something?

Okay so back to P220 being carbed, costing lesser. Hope P200 gets Fi'd and costs 80K+. So then we will have P200 being more expensive than the P220.

As a P220 (Fi) owner, it surprised me the next iteration is expected to be a faster and cheaper. It normally doesn't happen, but if it really happens and Bajaj pulls it off then it is all good. Comparing the P200 and P220Fi, the latter always felt a lot crisper on the throttle. Let us see if Bajaj pulls if off with a carb.

^yes Indeed I personally have a lot of respect to the bajaj team not coz of their products, but they have an R&D team which is constantly working hard to get something new in terms of innovation. Their swirl combustion chambers with valve layout offset is something no body has tried before on small bikes. The point is that they are derived from car engines, but still its a feat. The Dtsi was also a good innovation on their small engines, although it was a copy from the 60s. Nobody had done that before on a small engine.
Frankly no design house or engine maker can make anything without a reference point. If you visit any R&D centre of any maker, they'll have all their competitor's products and also the latest engines from all ove rthe world. Not that they will directly copy, but to study the idea and improvise if needed. In some cases, its a direct transplant as well.
FYI, TVS outsourced only the Flame engine to AVL and all their other products are built inhouse. Bajaj's original design were all mostly based on inputs and ideas from kawasaki. The pulsar was conceptualised in the Toyko R&D centre.
TVS brought down a team from abroad to just optimise the exhaust note for the RTR project.
Simply put, nobody works single handed and no-body reveals what they did. The prominent makers like Honda, yamaha, suzuki have no R&D in india and its very obvoius they are sharing tech from their own R&D centres abroad. But its very minimal that they outsource anybody outside their own resources.
In the Indian case with Bajaj and TVS, they have to depend mostly on consultants abroad. Else, they wont know where they stand in international levels. Afterall these products are even exported, so they have to comply to world standards.

@kowkfst - There is no official drag race that was held anywhere with a timing slip to exactly tell what the R15 and p220 or RTR can do in stock. Coz in an official drag, there is no STOCK engine.
From a source of mine in a media(which i just checked), the R15 posts a 0-100 timing 13.10secs on the V-BOX with a 52 kgs rider.
The same guy on the P220 did a best of 13.42secs on the V-box.
0-60 - R15 stock - 4.21secs
0-60 - P220 stock - 4.35secs
Its very closely matched and the R15 manages to beat it by a fraction, which will vary on street conditions. So street racing is not the way a vehicle is evaluated.

I am planning to buy this one in exchange of mine P200(2007).Exchange will give me a better deal or selling it.Any suggestion ? (Bike is in Ok Ok Conditions..coz did a lot of experimentation from various mechs)

Thanks
Beruoist

+1 on these statements. As consumers, we will always have requirements that keep growing (speed, acceleration) and companies try and fulfill that. I believe Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki always have something to fall back on regarding R&D. And to see TVS and Bajaj right up there with them is great.

Well, let it launch and get tested. You could decide from there onwards.

anyone consider the possibility that the idiots over at CNBC got it wrong to begin with ??

is it not possible that the "new launch from bajaj" is actually the new Pulsar 200. because that does seem somewhat logical and inline with the rest of the details - i.e. around 70K price tag and no FI.

Interesting Stats Joel, btw can v hav u back in the RTR 180 Thread coz its launched now

I just got tired reading all the posts man...
Lets wait untill the bike is launched coz speculation leads to nothing but more confusion IMO...

Page by Page.... Man this thread is getting more interesting. If this bike is out in that price range, i would love to buy it.

+1 to that!