The 2010 Bike Launch Speculation Thread

[lockhrt999]

Th point i am trying to convey is if we have something like a 400 cc bike which has a 40-60 bhp power and can be used for daily commuting to office, weekend rides, highway blasts and can easily tour to leh something like the zma does and that too within a affordable range of <2 lakhs, then i am sure whichever company launches this will be the king of the 2 wheeler market as the models will make the customer feel like a full VFM .

+1 ..........

[NANOtechnology]

dudes...
its too much that all you are asking.

a classic 500 can be made in a 1.5 lac price bracket.
why not other companies make theses capacity motorcycles here ???

simple.
because in INDIA companies are not there to change the way we ride.
its because they want more profit.

platina, splendor, passion, discover, these are the bikes that cover 95% of the roads in india.
being 2 wheelers they are again calculated in stats of a large market for 2 wheelers.

we have these premium bikes like ducati, honda, yamaha, harleys because INDIA is the 2nd largest Bike market in the world acc to stats (due to these puny bicycles with motors).

the remaining 5 % (like us) hardly have 0.05% of sbk people.
if a company can earn millions by making a 100-150cc for 95% market, why will it unnessarily do all the R&D and stuff to make a 250-400-600cc locally, for the remaining 4.5%.

if i am a person studying market and seeing my profit regarding target market.
i myself would make only 100-125cc to keep my company alive.

expecting anything from local market is too much to ask friends.

[cool_dude_sunn_y]

Th point i am trying to convey is if we have something like a 400 cc bike which has a 40-60 bhp power and can be used for daily commuting to office, weekend rides, highway blasts and can easily tour to leh something like the zma does and that too within a affordable range of <2 lakhs, then i am sure whichever company launches this will be the king of the 2 wheeler market as the models will make the customer feel like a full VFM .

We do have something [Kawasaki Ninja 400R] but dont know when it will be available in India. If it makes it to India, i will be more than happy to scrap my project and get my hands on this one

[Sunnyside_up!]

Th point i am trying to convey is if we have something like a 400 cc bike which has a 40-60 bhp power and can be used for daily commuting to office, weekend rides, highway blasts and can easily tour to leh something like the zma does and that too within a affordable range of <2 lakhs, then i am sure whichever company launches this will be the king of the 2 wheeler market as the models will make the customer feel like a full VFM .

My Friend,

from what you have said, you want to have the best of all worlds - a commuter, cruiser, sports and off road tourer all rolled into one - for under 2 lakhs!

That's a little like asking for a girlfriend who looks like Aishwarya, has a figure like Angelina, cooks and pick up after you like your mom and is the daughter of Bill Gates!

Even assuming that the Indian Manufacturers decided to aim for this, how do you think that they could actually achieve this? Each of the functions require different bike dynamics and power characteristics not to mention variable ergonomics for the rider.

Commuters (to go to office) require to be upright, have an easy to handle stance with a light clutch/brakes and low power characteristics with thin reedy tyres to deliver that essence of commuting - mileage. Think typical Hero Honda.

Cruisers (for weekend rides) require a slightly more laid back stance, be big, heavy and powerful enough to cruise effortlessly all day on open highways - hence heavy chassis, broad tyres, diesel-engine-type torque. Think Harley.

Sportsbikes (for highway blasts), require power, forward stance, wind tunnel aerodynamics, steering dampers, ABS brakes, broad tyres and high revving engines. Think CBRR/Ninja/Gixxer

Tourers (to go to Leh) require reliable, powerful, medium revving,torquey engines, a slightly forward stance, windshields, broad off road tyres, and are preferably shaft driven. Think KTM/Multistrada/BMW dual type roaders.

Each function/purpose is highly specialised. Even though some bikes like the Ducati Multistrada can supposedly "do-it-all" - purists disagree. And even such bikes cost a bomb - upwards of 12 lakhs abroad.

Even if a manufacturer could come up with what you described, they would never satisfy all your requirements properly - and definitely not within your price bracket.

Personally I would prefer to have a bike that performs it's primary function well, rather than be a jack-of-all-trades and master of none.

So, as someone else said, " You're dreaming" buddy!

Still, it IS a nice dream - and dreaming is FREE - not 2 lakhs!!

[Ram1883]

That's a little like asking for a girlfriend who looks like Aishwarya, has a figure like Angelina, cooks and pick up after you like your mom and is the daughter of Bill Gates!

+1.
The best analogy I've seen in some time now..

[shrinathrao]

My Friend,

from what you have said, you want to have the best of all worlds - a commuter, cruiser, sports and off road tourer all rolled into one - for under 2 lakhs!

That's a little like asking for a girlfriend who looks like Aishwarya, has a figure like Angelina, cooks and pick up after you like your mom and is the daughter of Bill Gates!

Even assuming that the Indian Manufacturers decided to aim for this, how do you think that they could actually achieve this? Each of the functions require different bike dynamics and power characteristics not to mention variable ergonomics for the rider.

Commuters (to go to office) require to be upright, have an easy to handle stance with a light clutch/brakes and low power characteristics with thin reedy tyres to deliver that essence of commuting - mileage. Think typical Hero Honda.

Cruisers (for weekend rides) require a slightly more laid back stance, be big, heavy and powerful enough to cruise effortlessly all day on open highways - hence heavy chassis, broad tyres, diesel-engine-type torque. Think Harley.

Sportsbikes (for highway blasts), require power, forward stance, wind tunnel aerodynamics, steering dampers, ABS brakes, broad tyres and high revving engines. Think CBRR/Ninja/Gixxer

Tourers (to go to Leh) require reliable, powerful, medium revving,torquey engines, a slightly forward stance, windshields, broad off road tyres, and are preferably shaft driven. Think KTM/Multistrada/BMW dual type roaders.

Each function/purpose is highly specialised. Even though some bikes like the Ducati Multistrada can supposedly "do-it-all" - purists disagree. And even such bikes cost a bomb - upwards of 12 lakhs abroad.

Even if a manufacturer could come up with what you described, they would never satisfy all your requirements properly - and definitely not within your price bracket.

Personally I would prefer to have a bike that performs it's primary function well, rather than be a jack-of-all-trades and master of none.

So, as someone else said, " You're dreaming" buddy!

Still, it IS a nice dream - and dreaming is FREE - not 2 lakhs!!

Its not about dreaming here, its about what i feel the Indian bike manufacturer should build.

Now, lets talk about the existing segment of Hero Honda karizma, people buy it and use it for multi purpose like commuting as well as many of them have used for cruising, touring and had been to leh also something of that nature with a bigger capacity engine of 400 cc and has 40 bhp can be easily achieved within the range of 2 lakhs.

If everyone starts thinking as you are thinking than none will attempt to build something which satisfies mass population and its easy on the pockets too.

[antz.bin]

Its not about dreaming here, its about what i feel the Indian bike manufacturer should build.

Now, lets talk about the existing segment of Hero Honda karizma, people buy it and use it for multi purpose like commuting as well as many of them have used for cruising, touring and had been to leh also something of that nature with a bigger capacity engine of 400 cc and has 40 bhp can be easily achieved within the range of 2 lakhs.

If everyone starts thinking as you are thinking than none will attempt to build something which satisfies mass population and its easy on the pockets too.

case in pont consider Ducati Monster 796..(L-twin, 803cc) which costs 9.2lac. but that high price is due to a 116% import duty. So it would cost somewhere around 4.2lac if it is being sold in the EU(i.e. made somewhere in EU i.e. higher manufacturing costs). If a similar thing is made by an Indian Manufacturer inside India at half its dimensions.. i.e. 401.5cc v/l/parallel twin.. how hard is it to do it within half its cost..

[NANOtechnology]

dude.
agreed to your point !!
but tell me.

do people here in India EVEN know to ride?

i have a friend who's from ETHIOPIA (Africa)
he comes from a 3rd world country like ours.

he says that he would never ride/drive in a country like India.
my cousins from London, whenever come here, find it unbearable to even cross the streets.
forget about riding, these guys own GSX 750's back home, here they are scared to ride a fiero here too.

if a company even does make great bikes, 400 cc if not more, do people deserve it?

ask any splendor owner, that what BHP in under your butt.
ask any commuter that weather he knows what is meant by counter steering??
these guys don't even know how the bike works,
this country doesn't have PASSION in biking my friend.

we stand 25k people.
consider everybody passionate, but remaining 2 billion people are again bikers.

i myself am tired waiting for a good bike from ages.
i don't even like a 250, i at least want a 600, but expecting this from local market is again tooo much.

manufactures only want sales figures, i bet that pulsar reached to 220cc, just because it wanted to beat Karizma.

these people are fighting amongst themselves, not making quality equipment at all.
there's not a single company in india who can compete in the international market.

if these guys start competing in international market, if not WSBK then at-least in Asia level championships, only then they will learn WHERE the stand.
WHAT does performance mean.

you guys have ridden a R15, Karizma, 220, RTR 180...
do you guys FIND IT POWERFUL??

as an upgrade, what you'll get 250 pulsar, 220 rtr, that's it.
is it enough for all those people here who can drift, stunt, reach magnificent speeds, and even ride safely with thier eyes closed??

is it enough???

[badbikerboy]

^^^ +100,Agree with each and every word except one...

we stand 25k people.
consider everybody passionate,
but remaining 2 billion people are again bikers.

not bikers, I think commuters is the word...

[happybiking]

...Now, lets talk about the existing segment of Hero Honda karizma, people buy it and use it for multi purpose like commuting as well as many of them have used for cruising, touring and had been to leh also something of that nature with a bigger capacity engine of 400 cc and has 40 bhp can be easily achieved within the range of 2 lakhs...

If everyone starts thinking as you are thinking than none will attempt to build something which satisfies mass population and its easy on the pockets too.

Trust me dude...every single soul here on xBhp(as well as other enthusiasts) want that to happen & it will happen someday(counting on bajaj here)...
But the pace at which things are going I seriously doubt if it will see daylight in our lifetime...

Problem is the hunger for high numbers/profits is such that nobody cares about what we(puny 5% junta) think. To fulfill our wishes we need a firm for which making bikes is a passion and not just a profession/business, which in a country like India is next to impossible

[shrinathrao]

dude.
agreed to your point !!
but tell me.

do people here in India EVEN know to ride?

YES they know and people are becoming sensible slowly

i have a friend who's from ETHIOPIA (Africa)
he comes from a 3rd world country like ours.

he says that he would never ride/drive in a country like India.
my cousins from London, whenever come here, find it unbearable to even cross the streets.
forget about riding, these guys own GSX 750's back home, here they are scared to ride a fiero here too.

see its like blaming the entire bikers breed of india for some idiots, your friend should think the other side also keeping in mind our country population as compared to his country

if a company even does make great bikes, 400 cc if not more, do people deserve it? yes they do there are many disciplined bikers, why should they be punished

ask any splendor owner, that what BHP in under your butt.
ask any commuter that weather he knows what is meant by counter steering?? see a commuter uses his bike to office and home so full day he deals with traffic and signals where he has time for counter steering tell me
these guys don't even know how the bike works,
this country doesn't have PASSION in biking my friend. If the country doesnt have passion for biking what is the xbhp community for, and why are you and me the members of this community?

we stand 25k people.
consider everybody passionate, but remaining 2 billion people are again bikers.

i myself am tired waiting for a good bike from ages.
i don't even like a 250, i at least want a 600, but expecting this from local market is again tooo much. see this is the same local market which ten years ago launched the HH karizma and since then things have started changing so the next big thing should be a 400 cc and it will come once the competition starts heating up, patience is the word here my friend

manufactures only want sales figures, i bet that pulsar reached to 220cc, just because it wanted to beat Karizma. again the competition gave birth to the pulsar 220 right so there are innovations happening in bajaj and tvs stable and it will come out

these people are fighting amongst themselves, not making quality equipment at all.
there's not a single company in india who can compete in the international market.
If they want to launch also something in international market then our policies screw the morale of the manufacturers, on the contrary bajaj and hh are exporting their bikes in lot of countries
if these guys start competing in international market, if not WSBK then at-least in Asia level championships, only then they will learn WHERE the stand.
WHAT does performance mean.

you guys have ridden a R15, Karizma, 220, RTR 180...
do you guys FIND IT POWERFUL??
see powerful is a different term among all this bikes as they are built for different purpose and if you try to look with a single eye to all the bikes then you are taking a wrong decision

as an upgrade, what you'll get 250 pulsar, 220 rtr, that's it.
is it enough for all those people here who can drift, stunt, reach magnificent speeds, and even ride safely with thier eyes closed?? see one side you say people dont know how to ride and dont know wahts the bhp on the other side you tell about satisfaction, so you answered your first question, and secondly doing stunts with safety and all depends on the riders choice

is it enough??? ENOUGH is not a word in any bikers dictionary so if you are asking me i would say NO as everyone wants a bit more

@happybiking- did anyone expected that Yamaha would bring a r15(150 cc) and that too being coting a cost of 1lakh+ would be sold like hot cakes, now if you see Yamaha is in profits with the r15 than if any manufacturer can launch a 400 cc within 2 lakhs range wont he be making profits? now do you think my point is invalid in that sense?

[satyenpoojary]

^^^ +100,Agree with each and every word except one...



not bikers, I think commuters is the word...

Would love to hear your defination of the word 'Biker'

[NANOtechnology]

okay shreenath..

karizma was launched 10 years ago...

rajdoot had a 350cc motor more that 30 years ago
India had yezdi at my dad's time which was again a 250 twin.

bullet exists from last 50 years, again a 500/350.

2 strokes started 100cc class as much as i know, as 350s and 250s were fuel consuming at that time.

so if 30 years back if someone owned a bike i BET he/she was passionate.

today, bikes are only used for commuting, and this companies itself are making them do so.
if every commuter can ride a 250-350 he will know a lot about biking then the one rides a 100cc.

THIS MARKET CANNOT CHANGE BY OUR INITIATIVE

if a company planned to launch a karizma, it didn't do so to satisfy masses, it did so to play at a different level than the competition which were working hard beating 150cc segment.

luckily it got enough takers and it turned out to be successful.
that same company is using the SAME motor even today, others are again competing to that itself.

according to speculation if a TVS comes with a 220 cc, it will not do so because it wants to attract powerful buyers, it will because everybody knows, that if 1 person wants to upgrade from a 150cc bike, there's only 2 options left practically Pulsar 220 and karizma.

tvs wants to again attract those people to again COMPETE.

if HH was a very sensible company to change the way we ride, is it sleeping from last 10 years ??

is bajaj was a very sensible company then, if it has the resources to make a 220 in house, why would it import a 250 kwacker worth more than 3 times more money???

if tvs is a very sensible company, then why doesn't it have anything more than 180??

these people DON'T want to make anything above 220 in house...
the reason---->

because karizma was a big risk with payed out well.
others are still worried to take such a risk now.

and the icing on the cake is the government.
which makes up even prevent outside market to keep these so called BIKE makers in India alive.

[MotoS]

Motorcycle and Car Manufacturers starting at same point in India early 80's , car industry really blossomed with newer models different categories , engine sizes etc. while motorcycle manufacturers really lost the game sticking to the same 100cc format if car manufacturers were to do what motorcycle industry did , we would bee seeing only maruti 800's and santro like cars around rather than the entire range. For us to go from RD 350 to now dreaming of some powerful 250 manufactured here ie affordable in terms of spares with a yawning gap of over 30 years.
Motorcycle manufacturers really missed catering to the small enthusiast which would now have become a sizable number, a good sports 125 or 250 would have been great we might now even had a GP rider, like Malaysia with rider competing in the Moto2. R15 is now something to cheer about hope we don't have top wait another decade to see some new exiting bike manufactured here.
I am excluding people who can afford to buy and run SBK's, Ninja spares seem to be on high side to be really great buy

[shrinathrao]

okay shreenath..

karizma was launched 10 years ago...

rajdoot had a 350cc motor more that 30 years ago
India had yezdi at my dad's time which was again a 250 twin.

bullet exists from last 50 years, again a 500/350.

2 strokes started 100cc class as much as i know, as 350s and 250s were fuel consuming at that time.

so if 30 years back if someone owned a bike i BET he/she was passionate.

today, bikes are only used for commuting, and this companies itself are making them do so.
if every commuter can ride a 250-350 he will know a lot about biking then the one rides a 100cc.

THIS MARKET CANNOT CHANGE BY OUR INITIATIVE

if a company planned to launch a karizma, it didn't do so to satisfy masses, it did so to play at a different level than the competition which were working hard beating 150cc segment.

luckily it got enough takers and it turned out to be successful.
that same company is using the SAME motor even today, others are again competing to that itself.

according to speculation if a TVS comes with a 220 cc, it will not do so because it wants to attract powerful buyers, it will because everybody knows, that if 1 person wants to upgrade from a 150cc bike, there's only 2 options left practically Pulsar 220 and karizma.

tvs wants to again attract those people to again COMPETE.

if HH was a very sensible company to change the way we ride, is it sleeping from last 10 years ??

is bajaj was a very sensible company then, if it has the resources to make a 220 in house, why would it import a 250 kwacker worth more than 3 times more money???

if tvs is a very sensible company, then why doesn't it have anything more than 180??

these people DON'T want to make anything above 220 in house...
the reason---->

because karizma was a big risk with payed out well.
others are still worried to take such a risk now.

and the icing on the cake is the government.
which makes up even prevent outside market to keep these so called BIKE makers in India alive.

I agree that karizma, pulsar the tvs are fighting among themselves and making suffer themselves, while Kawasaki took the advantage and launched its 250 which is selling in decent numbers, same Yamaha did by launching the R15 and they are also selling like hot cakes in the market, now dont you think when the HH, bajaj and tvs were fighting the Kawasaki and Yamaha understood what the Indian biker wants, so one should not loose hope if the Indian companies are fighting as now there are many new players like mahindra, hyosung are entering the Indian market, as that time the competition will give us many new choices.

By the way Yamaha has already bought 2 revolution to the Indian biking industry, first the Rd350 and Rx100 and now the R15 which the Indian manufacturers or even the Honda failed to do, as they were and are till date playing in the 100-150 cc segment only.