One thing is for sure, Lavasa is not a racetrack. And not much should be hoped from it.


Worry not,the Blade will rise again and thunder.

Wise, yes, Calcutta's roads are so bad, tram-lines, you are hitting 120 and accelerating and a manhole (about few meters below the level, iron=no grip) and if your luck is bad, an open one.

Fireblah, what do you say about the 600RR?

Do you find it good? Enough for commuting and having fun with? (Engine and chassis wise and so not taking ABS or other techno wizardly into equation).

You may reply me here--


Don't want to hijack 10hut's thread

How long would it take for the spares to arrive?

While chicken stripes dont mean a shit when juding a rider they do mean a lot when judging a crash. It just plain simply tells you what happened and whether you lost the front or the rear first.

Thats the only good chicken stripes or the lack of them ever can do to a rider. In case of a low side ! In case of a highside you dont have to bother youself with chicken stripes at the rear wheel. A high side itself tells you the whole story.

Avoiding a front wash out is not something a child learns on his first bicycle...heck the child doesnt even learn counter steering on his last bicycle. Its not a basic insticnt at all. Your front is lost by your erroneous throttle control or braking which differs from bike to bike..throttle control or braking is no basic instinct. Thats why even GP racers continue to wash their front out on a regular basis.
Washing your front out is a noob mistake which will come to haunt you time and again.

Thats why I was riding at 48kmph when I crashed ! Lavasa is not a racetrack. But the reasons why you fall (so long as you are falling on your own) are bound to be the same whether on a track or on the streets.
A guy who has low sided on a track has committed the same set of mistakes that he has when he low sided on the streets !

On the contrary, counter steering does come naturally when riding a 2 wheeler. Its so natural that more than 90% of the riders dont know they counter steer, once its pointed out to them it becomes a lot clearer. Also you dont need to lean much to have to counter steer.

GP racers do lose their fronts often, so how can that be a noob mistake? It also has a lot to do with loading on the front.

Track is controlled environment where the importance is given to time than destination .Where everything is/almost perfect.Only mistake is rider .
While its exactly opposite on the street and to add to it is n number of factors , stone,head on,wind,distraction,gravel,oil,wet,cow dung,potholes,humps....add to this .....
Track is not equal to street and vice versa...unless you ment some thing else .

PS:sad to see it wrecked ,hope your insurance fixes it up soon.

and the suspension must also have been setup differently for the street.

It is important to distinguish between countersteering as a physical phenomenon and countersteering as a rider technique.
The exact speed at which the centrifugal force becomes greater than the weight of the bike+you is around 25kmph or so (depending on the bike physics).
So unless you are always riding your bicylce at 25kmph you are not always countersteering. The fact that everyone countersteers a motorcycle and yet many dont know that they do it is the very proof that counter-steering as a physical phenomenon and counter-steering as a rider technique, are two different worlds. Counter-steering as a rider technique is not what you learn on any bicycle is what I meant.
Losing your front is always a noob mistake. You lose your front either because you are being greedy and trail-braking way too hard or because you are being irregular with your throttle(exceptions like oil spillage not taken into consideration these are the only two ways you can load up your front) The rider may or maynot be a noob...the mistake definitely is one !

Originally posted by TenHut View Post

Thats why I was riding at 48kmph when I crashed ! Lavasa is not a racetrack. But the reasons why you fall (so long as you are falling on your own) are bound to be the same whether on a track or on the streets.
A guy who has low sided on a track has committed the same set of mistakes that he has when he low sided on the streets !

I didnt mean something else. I meant exactly that what you meant.
Track != streets !
But the reasons of your crash ( provided you crash on your own, this takes irregularites like potholes,cowdung etc out of the equation and leaves rider mistakes as the only reason for the fall) are the same on a track as what they are on the streets. For example, if you throttle in a turn like a maniac you will crash both on the street and on a track and the cause( in this case mad throttle in a turn) doesnt differentiate between a track or a street before it sends you flying in the air to headbutt a space shuttle.

While setting compression & rebound are really as much art as science and it really helps to have an expert set things up our stock bikes suspension setups are far more superior to our rider capabilities. You wont have to worry about changing it for the streets/tracks. You can hit the track with stock settings and drag a knee every corner.
If you are competing at any level (or are grossly overweight) then thats when you need to start to bother yourself with changes to the suspension.

haha quoting wikipedia and some other websites i see :P heres the full explanation.

It is important to distinguish between countersteering as a physical phenomenon and countersteering as a rider technique for initiating a lean (the usual interpretation of the term). The physical phenomenon always occurs, because there is no other way to cause the bike and rider to lean short of some outside influence such as an opportune side wind, although at low speeds it can be lost or hidden in the minute corrections made to maintain balance.

The two describe the dynamics of a bike when leaning with and without ride input. When I said riders counter steer without them knowing is not the phenomenon its the rider input that is going unnoticed! the actual physical input from the rider. The phenomenon is just physics!

While setting compression & rebound are really as much art as science and it really helps to have an expert set things up our stock bikes suspension setups are far more superior to our rider capabilities. You wont have to worry about changing it for the streets/tracks. You can hit the track with stock settings and drag a knee every corner.
If you are competing at any level (or are grossly overweight) then thats when you need to start to bother yourself with changes to the suspension

The suspension setup has nothing to do with whether you can drag your knee or not. the better the suspension setup for the rider's needs the more feedback he will have from the road and the bike. You can drag your knee even if the suspension setup is way off, that doesnt mean that you get the best ride. And its not about competition either, its about getting the most out of the bike and the ride. So NO the setup on the street will not be the same as the setup on a track.

Dont start celebrating just yet.
"It is important to distinguish between countersteering as a physical phenomenon and countersteering as a rider technique."

was a sentence first read in American Journal of Physics by Popular mechanics, July issue, Year 2000.
Wiki may have this and more as its a free to edit website for all. Sports riding books throw this sentence around a lot too.

Counter-steering can at best be termed counter-intuitive but not instinctive and that was all that I was implying by quoting Popular Mechanic's observation.

When one is hitting the tracks for the first 20 times in ones life he/she wouldnt even know where he/she is to look for to get the feedback that you are talking of. And while one will be busy blaming his/her street suspension setup someone would be lapping you on plastic hard tyres and stock street suspension. For all the times I have been on the track I have been on stock settings...and so have been many other friends of mine. Once you start riding for the laptimes you will need to tweak the suspension...thats atleast 2000kms or more of track riding before you reach the niveau you are talking of.
Example : One of my friends one Mr Yatin Shirole is racing for ten ten racing at Sidvin National Championship and currently stands fifth in the championship. He has had 4 races and all were on stock street suspension. He is currently clocking 1 minute 52 seconds.
When he asked for a track oriented suspension ten ten told him to clock under 1 minute 50 seconds before he jumps onto other settings. Lap record on that track is 1 minute 44 seconds. Do a few trackdays and ask your coaches ! You will get an even better answer.
Chuck it though...let us agree to disagree like we did in our last argument about the Ducatis
Since I have crashed this time...I will shut my gob ! :P

Ah, I need a lot more to celebrate :P Does it really matter where the exact statement came from? I meant you copy pasted a portion of the sentence instead of the whole since the latter clearly puts the point across.

I disagree, counter-steering is BOTH counter-intuitive and instinctive. I say that also because I used to be one of them, riding for years without knowing I was counter steering in turns. Its ofcourse exaggerated when riding higher capacity bikes at higher speeds.

About the suspension, I wasn't commenting based on what experience you or other riders have when they go on tracks. Also, just because the suspension is setup perfect doesnt mean the rider's going to start breaking lap records. Even if the rider's a begginer it helps to have it setup right. Infact all coaches, mechanics here recommend setting the suspension right from day one of use whether its for road or track use. I took my bike to the twisties for about 4-5 weekends before I got the suspension setup. I could tell the difference instantly.

Ah its more fun to disagree Anyway, so when do you get your Ducati? Oh and you're into robotics?

Peace.

Oh No. He is in Theatrics.

The latter is not true...a bicycle doesnt counter-steer under 25kmph and you dont ride a bicycle over 25kmph. Depends on the bicycle ofc so dont quote me on "25kmph"
If you read popular mechanics (the hard copy) they dont mention anything that wiki mentions after the sentence..wiki is edited while PM isnt. Since you are thinkign I copy pasted you are thinking I filtered important part out. I did not.

Good for you. I have done some track riding but honestly at my amateur level I am still searchign for the feedback that the world talks about. If you can tell the difference in the feedback by making a suspension changes then its great. I still cant. You must be gifted.
No clue...I am hitting the tracks big time this riding season along with another 5 day Cali Superbike School training so I expect to crash a lot
If I dont end up blowing all my money on fixing the bike after my crashes I should be buying a new bike by this december.
Robotics and Automation was my specialisation while pursuing Mtech.
I am not working in robotics anymore.
@TrustVishwas:
Looks like you are just being schadenfreudig given that I have crashed
And gimme my 10 acres that you have promised me so long ago.
You also promised me your Ninja if I were to crash my bike. I kept my end of the promise.

sorry for ot but ^^^wow ninja for a crash!!! i would still not crash that bike (if i had one)

can you please explain what exactly is a low side or a high side as you put a couple of posts ago??

DUCATI! When did this happen?
And which one???? and does your dog bite??? Where will you keep the keys for it in your home??? Just friendly stupid questions!!!

Any two wheeler will actually countersteer at any speed, its just not very practical or safe to do so at low speeds since there's not enough of a gyroscopic effect from the turning wheels to keep the bike stable, which is why people don't recommend it below a certain speed.