I'v don't think any fundamental is hallowed enough never to be questioned. That aside, I don't see which "fundamental" I questioned in this discussion. If it is some private fundamental, then sorry, I couldn't have known about it.

So you can determine the flow rate by just looking at the oil bubbling out of the tube?! Hats off to you then... I bow in veneration. But I guess you have decided to keep this amazing method, earned thru your valuable experience and practical knowledge a secret? Thats mean!

I'm afraid that till date I'v never seen a bike which comes with oil injection that has a sticker that mentions the recommended pre-mix ratio. Not seen in the manual either. The best that I have seen mentioned is something like oil consumption would be around x ml in y km. I no idea where you have seen pre-mix ratio mentioned. Would you mind mentioning which bikes you have seen it on? And you have mixed things up - I had mentioned that 2% is the ratio recommended by some lube manufacturers, not the bike manufacturer! I even mentioned this in the last reply!

No, never owned an RX or RD. Have used my bike with the pump without any issues since it was bought. And have and had few friends who have used the pump on both bikes and scooters (Ki Ho) for much, much longer than me - tens of thousands of km. Never heard about a pump malfunction from them either. But this is of course not the way to prove that pumps never fail. It would be happening in a small number of case... both because of wrong ways of treating them, or even mechanical failure. I can't deny that. The logic behind "I will not use pre mix when I have a pump" is simply because of the advantages of using the pump! And in every single way it is advantageous, EXCEPT for the SMALL probability that it may fail inexplicably. I was surprised to know that many people on this forum did not even know all the advantages, and hence these arguments. Won't start getting into that again...

I guess we disagree on what is mundane. And I respect your right to differ and get piqued about that.

Maybe it's not mentioned anywhere that 3% is the petrol oil ratio but it's common knowledge for two stroke owners, even me mum has this figured out she would fill 90 ml of oil into the oil tank and 3 ltrs of petrol into the petrol tank and exhaust the oil when she exhausted her petrol. Dont ask me why she would nt fill a litre of oil into the oil tank at once I dunno maybe this was her way of making sure that there was always oil, she does nt ride anymore and I use the KiHo to practise drifting when the roads are a lil wet real fun. Anyways so it figures that 3% is optimal and in the case of a slightly worn engine 4% or a engine thats getting run in 4% even company mechanics adjust a higher flower rate when required. Well i do agree there is a obvious advantage of using the oil pump as it is properly calibrated but there is always the risk of pump failing or it's pipes clogging especially on a old motorcycle.

This is the way to analyse this in real world situation....

Have you used it in the pump? Whats your feedback apart from it getting over very soon. Asking this coz, I wanted to use 8002t but I was told it cannot be used in the pump and I dont use pre-mix.

Genuine request for information please dont read it along with the jugalbandi going on here

Sigh... the issue has still not been understood. Yes, it is "common knowledge" and thats why its "wrong". Let me repeat - different engines require different ratios. Not only that, the same engine will require different ratios in different conditions. If you desire more details, of if you have a problem believing what I'm saying, please do read up literature from reliable sources. Yes, you can err on the side of safety and use a higher ratio, but its NOT the optimal way of doing things, and it has its side effects. That is the only point.

Pipes clogging and stuff is a matter for concern, no doubt. Thats why I clearly mentioned that you have to treat the system very carefully.

And btw, what your mother was doing is very risky. If the oil runs out sooner, then the pump will run dry, besides the engine itself running dry!

@ activa

Thanks a lot buddy .

@ Racoon

About the flow rate I think you are right because the pump is only a mechanical device and until there is some problem like dust or cord setting or gear setting , there is no reason to check the flow rate .
But hope you have heard of blue printing , there is some small niggles there sometimes during manufacturing .


@ all

I have 135 4 speed 98 model . The Yamaha guys told me that 4 speed always had oil pump problem . Its flow rate was more than it should have been , that falls in manufacturing defect which was never rectified .
Because of which there is always heating and starting problem in this model because it went way too lean because of the dumb pump .
Note : I am only telling you what I was told .

I have not seen much cases where companies had enough balls to come out and tell that their particular product X had so and so manufacturing or callibration or etc problem. Its only by use and research by experts that we come to know of them .

And a question to and all .
When we rebore , cylinder capacity increases , piston size increases , etc.
So will the engine still need same amount of 2T or there is some respective adjustment somewhere when this is done or the engine RPM takes care of it or I am thinking too much - just confused .
Please try and answer this technically , may help noobs like me .


And about the discussion going around here , I ll like to contribute something .
Well I read on RDD that different oils need to be used in premix in different quantities i.e., the amount of oil used as premix depends on the oil itself .
For eg : If motul is used as premix as 25 ml / lt . It does not mean castrol will be also used 25 ml / lt . But the difference is not much .
May be 30 ml .
Yeah 3% is usually recommended for the RX .
During running in extra oil or the upper limit 40 ml is recommended .

@ Sandeep

Thanks .


Well I am no expert here but will only try and point out what I felt and the problems with my bike , etc . Realized that except u no one loves ur bike , exceptional cases do exist . Dont trust it with any dumb mechanic or even a hot - shot who he may actually not even be .
For eg: Most people just eat things even if they dont taste good , everyone has their own reason but still if 100 people are eating somewhere that does not mean the hotel provides good food .

1. Heating issue .

@ Sandeep
Yes you were right , Was excessively lean . Spark plug was white like kashmir ki kali .

Now as Pyscho 98 pointed out .
Took the bore to a rebore expert . There was a problem .
Got it rectified .
Heating has reduced by some 5 - 10 % .

Now I am not able to figure out what must be the damn problem.
One that I can think of is oil pump which I stated earlier that this model RX had faulty oil pump as told to me by yamaha mechanics .

My mechanic told the pump is working fine but says 135 has heating problem , WTF .

Ok so I observed the following points ,
1. The right side of the engine , heats more than the left side .
right side : to left side - 100 : 75/90 ( cant measure just rough idea )

Now considering the right hand side of engine ,

2. The Top end heats more than the low end.

Spark Plug obs :

Before bore was rectified the spark plug showed was white - too lean .
Now after rectification , some 10 kms of city riding and 50 kms of highway riding . Spark plug showed kinda light black color and black bits of semi solid particles near the cover - carbon foul or incomplete combustion or dont know .

Now again not able to figure this thing out .

When I used to run premix there was carbon fouling , pipes clogged , etc .
I thought because I am running premix hence this problem ,
Now after using oil pump also this problem .

So at low speed it was white and overall a light blackish kinda appearance.

May be a jetting problem .
Do we need to rejet after rebore from STD size .

Maaan......... There is NO secret. I sincerely tell you, thats how you will analyse the flow rate ...if you bow to me in veneration, then I will accept it gleefully because now you are starting to ignore facts. I get the feeling now that you are going to say that the sky is not blue but Magenta, just because I said it was blue. ... its going nowhere ...and I can't believe it that you have not seen a vehicle with a sticker on it mentioning the oil ratio ...and not in the manual ??!

Look, it IS mentioned in the manual and in most cases also on the fuel lid ..... ok ? Please do have a look again..I do have a pic somewhere which I will dig up when time permits.

@ outwardly maniac,

Yes...bigger jet is suggested but if you are gonna get them from JC road - you can't be sure that a 165 is a 165, coz it might be a 130 or a 200....


I do use a bit more oil in the tank when I got the engine rebored..for ex, my Std Yezdi runs on 50ml while the first rebore is 55-60ml per litre. BUT - I don't know by how much you should increase it on a RX , if at all required , coz I never had to ride on a rebored engine ...till date on a RX

Most ppl will say a slight dark skin brown shade is what is the correct color that a pluggie should have. Ideal mixture settings. And BTW I don't believe that using premix/autolube will make any difference to your plug as long as the premix is ~3%. BUT - quality of oil will make a difference. I am sure pyscho would have told you to carry your own oil to the pump... you might be doing it already ..but just reminding.

2. Engine noise .

Well after rectification of bore ( the bore was tapered initially , or in shape of frustum , now its kinda cylindrical ) .

This reduced noise from the bore quite a bit , some 25 % I think .
But still there is some noise , So thought the noise does come ... No need to think much , its not silent engine .

Now after riding on highway , suddenly a noise crept ...
Kinda kat kat kat noise , previously someone told me it was because I was using an RX 100 rod which I replaced with 135 rod with specification told by the turner still this noise , dont know where it comes from but somewhere from the engine . It comes at its wish , means sometimes it there and sometimes not . Tried to figure out whether it comes in certain conditions but failed . May be some noise from hell to tell me to prevent from sleeping .

3. Ride experience .

Well to be frank have not ridden any RX except mine and one which was total crap condition but still runs ... bloody dont know how man ... does not maintain at all , so cant compare .

So here will only state my experience and observations .

Firstly I ll talk about speed according to my speedometer .
I ll give two speed , first one till which I can easily ride and second one on which the bike become infertility machine ( vibrations )
With or without pillion same , dont ask me how .

1 st gear - 12 - 15 , 20
2 nd gear - 20-25 , 30
3 rd gear - 30-35 , 40
4th gear - 40 - 45 , goes till 50 with some vibrations , one 60 vibrates much much more and makes mad noise , at 70 too much vibs and noise is like engine is begging to reduce noise .

Stock shocks :
Please , except the advantage that they maintain the same height , These are things of the past . Better find modern ones except SnS .
The ride on pot holes is bouncy , was riding on the 5th pos or softest pos.
Which is highly uncomfortable . Feels like riding a toy horse .
Bottom out more easily than a splendor.

I cant bear so much vibrations man , As I said I have not ridden RX so dont know whether it does vibrate so much . I am talking about stock 4 speed without cat con .

Am not able to use full throttle on any gear , for the first three gear ...
In a matter of couple of seconds its time to change gear ...
on the fourth the engine cries .

My Verdict ( talking in reference to my bike ) :

All in all 4 speed is a awesome city bike , but thats about it .
For highways it sucks , I guess its the territory of 5 speeders .
Cant ride whole day long or ur wife will be disappointed with you .
Nothing can replace Two storkes .

Chassis problem or no problem :

My rear mud guard touches the rear tyre ( near the front side i.e., towards the engine side ) on pot holes if there is weight more than approx 120 kg.
Now this is ridiculous , because I cant carry a pillion except small kids .
I weigh 84 outta that 120 .
Tried on 3rd position and 5 position and same result.

Now is it normal with stock shocks or not .

I am using original escorts shocks which came in yellow packing .
Later found out that there are gabriel and endurance shocks also there
( is it true ? ) or again I thought crap .

Electrical problem :

My indicators dont work , nor flash .
The guy said RXG needs a flasher with earthing which is not available anywhere here . This situation really suc** because I myself also tried in many shops but its was not there.

One suggestion :

Stock bulb with good reflectors are more better than stock reflectors with a chinese halogen bulb . Trust me ! .

Thanks everyone for all your patience and time .

And ofcourse , to be continued ....

@OutwardlyManiac -

Man...where do you live ?



BTW - here is the pic of the recommended oil ratio on the fuel tank lid .

A place where no one knows about much about Two strokes or I do not know about those who know . Mumbai , in a small place man .
Otherwise would not have bothered you all so much buddy , specially Psycho 98 who was always there to clear my doubts .

I would like to thank the following for helping me out . Well it may not be a mind blowing build or may not qualify to be even called a re-build but whatever it is at the moment I am content.
No order of priority .

xbhp.com , rddreams.com , pyscho 98 , Sandeep K Ram , Charuvil , raccoon , torqu3e, yamahatrooper , abhijeet080808 and rahuldevnath for clearing my doubts in electricals which I could not dare to work out , satishg , shivanshu , arvindraju , ken_cool .
Sorry if I forget anyone.

Special thanks to Pyscho 98 , you rock .

Thanks a lot for contributing here friends , and request you all to continue advicing me .

Cheers

I'd say, the bigger volume within the cylinder will accommodate more gas, and with that more oil. The ratio stays the same (using pre-mix). So I don't think you need to effect any change.

Well, I guess this discussion is going nowhere, so I guess we should end it. And I just realized that we have hijacked Outwardly Maniac's thread... who seems to have so many intractable problems anyway. Ourwardly, sorry dude...

Last thing - thanks for posting the pic, but I mantain I'v never seen it anywhere. Not on Shoguns not on Samurais, not on the RXs I'v seen. Has anybody else here seen a recommended pre-mix ratio mentioned on the tank or manual?

Hey no problem sir , there is a lot of learning here .
Well I thought the same that bigger the cylinder , more gas , but same oil pumped at Particular RPM , so ratio not the same right ? . Guess its only got to do with lubricating cylinder walls and engine internals at a particular temperature . Am I rite or there is some theory or something I missed out ?.

Now again , different oils behave differently at a particular temp so I think the kind and quality or brand of oil and quantity used considered by some people while using premix is different even if there is not much difference.
The sticker itself says 3 % Yamalube or the same grade oil .
And the oil pump also must be pumping the amount of Yamalube needed at that particular RPM . Am I messing up things here , lot of confusion .
Please advice me correct thing here .

The pic that Sandeep posted comes with genuine RX tank locks or OE locks. My tank lock also has the same sticker . But not seen it in the manual .

If you are using the pump, then I guess it is a matter of concern. I guess your best bet is to add some extra (say maybe 3 - 5 ml/lt) oil in the petrol tank. That will be good for the tank too.

Btw, have you ever checked your 2t consumption? Like how many km does a 1/2 lt bottle of 2t last?

Yes, it says 3% Yamahalube, so does not necessarily mean that other 2t will be good at the same ratio... though it does mention Yamahalube or other FC stuff...