Just open the PDF in full screen and press print screen and past it to MS paint and post it here. that will be the easiest way

you are a true biker and i like that

To the moderator & my fellow bikers...

There's nothing against mod discussed, just that few members discussed their bad experiences with mod. Why is that when good things are discussed people like to hear & when things go bad, why do people try getting into offending mode? Why take it personal? Why not pick up facts & discuss it black & white here?

To continue...

1. To all those, who think Aargee is talking crap, let me ask a simple question; when we need bikes from abroad, 600, liter class & what not; infact, its extremely rare to see someone saying here that "I'm happy with my Discover 125, its powerful & I'm happy not to mod or love to tour in it". As a matter of fact, I can recall only two respectful members who tour on Caliber & other one I think Splendor. All others love to have big machine. That said, why not we follow some practice what's followed in the developed countries?

2. How do they carry out perf mods in developed countries? They explain how the performance is increased, TRANSPARENTLY & prove it using the required instruments before & after modification.

3. Ofcourse, that's a serious business & its also expensive. But we also get it done seriously from people who're serious about the business & is it cheap either? No its not. So proof? I leave that to you whether it should read out through instruments or not. Why leave the last part alone on a perf tuning?

4. Last but not the least, I see several people saying "Perf tuning has its own side effects, 50% chances, reliability is lost with mods, you should be lucky"; my take on perf mod is "increase in performance with reliability" but again not insane mod; there's a limit to which any motor can take & that limit should be maintained while the reliability should never be compromised on any front.

Abhi - Excellent numbers; that is something that is the output of a decent perf mod. These are the things that speak for itself & this is what should be discussed to bring in
Sridhar, that is excellent; have heard about Ignite's reputation in TBhp as one of the best garages out here in Chennai.


+1; Respect

Edit - Finally one more point, this thread is not about finding how many customer's are satisfied with Mr.Joel's mod or not & we're least bothered about that. Instead of taking that effort, appreciate if the efforts are taken to prove the numbers scientifically just like few members did here.

Happy to see numbers coming up and thread stabilizing...
Moderators , Truely appreciate the level headed approach ..
I do not know about others, but I am learning a lot ,and am thankful to every contributor to this thread...Let us keep it interesting , informative and factual.

Another rc tuned pulsar 200

Firstly, so sad to read about ur (harishk) experience with race concept.
I have no idea how and y it happened with most of r15 owners that too after completing 1k to 1.6k run in period..

I got my pulsar 200 joeled (i m not advertising rc, though i m a big fan) which includes only a 210cc big bore and a ffe..

The amazing part is that i did a run in period of only 440 kms that too in one day and in a proper way and till now done 9.5 k kms on this set up.. And theres no problem at all.. In fact the bike feels great
just after completing the run in period.. Changed the oil. And immediately ripped the bike continuosly for abt 120kms.. Each gear goin till red line..in fact now also i dont ride normally.. Whole time i ride, the rpm needle is mostly on the red line..then too no problem at all

the bike is much more free and smooth
it beats a stock p220
gives mileage of 39kmpl after hot roding.. And wen ridden normally gives mileage of44kmpl..
The most famous vibrations gifted by bajaj are gone
the bike pulls like any thing.. The torque enough to get the pillion off the bike..
Still waiting for my pockets to get some cash.. Will be going to joels rc workshop for my cbr250r

most interesting was got the big bore and ffe delivered within a week..got these on 7 feb and till now completed 9.5k kms hassle free.. Infact ridden joyfully..

Conclusion: I m a satisfied customer of rc..for me i m very happy to have a good engineer like joel in india , because of him we (customers with good experience with joel) dont have to go for costly performance bikes..

I m not at all good at writing revies. So sorry for any mistakes if i did..

Yap i know him for past 15years now..... we where area friends and collage m8 in Automobile engineering later he likes cars and i like bikes lol that's the only difference but he loves riding bikes, we go for Sunday rides too. I still remember, when he was in school 7th or 8th he had a explorer completely modified and can give rx100 a run for it money lol

Good old days.. wish it stayed that way... the world of 2stroke.



A simple answer is p220 does not rev high as r15. P200 to 210 and 10cc more on a bore which is already running on P220, so you have more potential on it bro
And r15 is already pushed to its limits by Yamaha without loosing reliability, that's why Yamaha did not have a answer when Honda CBR150 came with 19.5bhp in Thailand and our Indian model is 17.58bhp de tuned for km/l like they did for CBR250R.

I would advice not to play with bore if you dont want to end up frying your engine. the best hing to do is a ecu remap and remove the cat and enjoy the bike for a long time.

CBR is different, the made a bike which can take a lot and reused its power in the name of km/l like what Apple does. Iphone3gs runs at 800hz but the processor is capable of doing 1ghz without any issue.

Hope i kept it simple

Boon is alive but he is very tired.He dont have any more energy left to comment on any kind of modding related thread.

REASON-
1) His final semester Anna university exam has started and will continue till next month 15th

2)He is pissed off with himself.Once a R15 rider now rides a scooty of his girlfriend.

3)He has sold his R165 to one guy because he was not having any more money left to spend on the bike, and that guy is riding the same bike (in stock mode) with out any kind of trouble.

@aargee-
I dont think that I need to write my experience. Me had Harish has went through similar situation. The only difference between me and him is that, while he is still rides his R15/R165/R18 , me on the other hand watches fellow rider riding their R15 sitting on the college/govt bus and share auto.

Signing off,

Boon

Thanks a million Bro.

My bike is currently being worked on and we are progressing very slow this time, coz both my friend (at Yamaha) and me have a tight schedule, also a few parts are still on the way like the 10-Hole FI etc. I should be up and running in a week or two, Will post a detailed report on it.

Though there has been a lot of fighting going on in this thread , i have learned a lot.
Harish- I'm sorry that things ended up the way it did about your experience with RC, but on the bright side, you learned a great deal about modding on your own right ? That's a good thing. Kudos to you on that side. And all the best with your new project. Do post your experience from that mod too.

And also i do agree that in the present scenario in India,customers are educated only about the performance gains , the side effects or minor drawback/ extra maintanace needed to compliment the mods are conveniently left out, and the customers in an blinding greed to increase their bikes performance over look the fact and are least bothered.And afterall its business, it thrives on such behavior.

Now, even i'm a customer of RC, though its just the ffe (220F), and having read many +ve reviews and Joel's racing background and him being a mechanical engineer, i assumed he knows what he is doing and ordered from him. I was promised a genuine 10% gain in performance and similar gain in mileage by Joel.

Though it took a long time to deliver which is a drawback, during that time i tried to contact many other people personally who had ordered from him and found quite a few people had the same delay but it was not well documented on any open forums, that is correctly pointed out by Harish which is a valid point, but i must say the response from Joel was very very prompt and he addressed every question about mine.

Now after getting the ffe i used it for some time and i had posted a initial review after about a month of use-age, and the performance and mileage gain was evident, so he did deliver what he promised to deliver, and i'm one happy customer for that, and that's the confidence that a customer gets and makes going to him again.

Now i'm using the stuff from him for nearly 7-8k kms and its still giving me the same performance consistently and a mileage of 50-52kmpl on sane riding, except for the glasswool refill which will be needed routinely, that was not mentioned to me everything else is just as he promised. So i must say that my experience with him has been a good one and he did deliver everything that he had promised to and its every penny spend completely worth it.

Cheers Mates
Ride Safe

Talking about a high-revving engine, let me tell you about my RTR 160.

I had purchased a second hand model almost 2 years back : it's my first and only bike. Was happy with the performance when I had purchased it, but as time passed by, I wanted more from my bike. My bike simple lost it's breath after 90kmph. Then I heard about Joel Joseph and his offerings to RTR 160/180. After almost one and a half years of purchasing the bike, I ordered the 170cc big bore and tuned freeflow exhaust from him. Delivery came within 1 and a half week.
He advised me to do a run-in of 500kms i.e 5k rpm limit. Did that obediently upto 200kms, after which I grew impatient and started hitting the red-line occasionally ..I mean roll on from higher gears. There was a fine improvement thoroughout the revv-range, especially from 5-8k rpm i.e mid-range. Very diffucult for me to keep the bike below 4k rpm Completed the run-in. Started trashing the bike like hell. Hit 12k rpm i.e revv-limiter in first 3 gears. But even today, bike is as healthy as horse. It's like, I trash the bike one day, park it..and the next day the bike fires up in just one kick and again I'm trashing the bike. Initially, as I said, my bike lost it's breath at 90kmph. Now there's massive grunt upto 110kmph. When I'm on a highway and I whack open the throttle, I'm surprised to see that the speedo is already showing more than 100kmph. I also raced a stock R15 on a highway. My bike is ahead of it by 2 bikes length upto 90-95kmph, after which the R15 is ahead of me by 1 bike's length. But I'm not upset because the head and the carburetor is still stock. In between the gasket between the head and the block piston was faulty and the bike was leaking compression : black smoke with obnoxious smell was leaking. Did a monor facing of head and fitted a new gasket. Now I can feel a even more mid-range punch! Completed 1000kms now. As of now, I'm in Mangalore doing my Mechanical Engineering. I can't send my bike's head to Joel for porting. So i'll be ordering the hotter cams shortly from him and i'll be going for Mikuni BS 29mm carburetor (The ones used in RTR 180, P180 ug4 etc).

Yes, there are some people who've had a bad experience with their tuned bike. But I am a happy customer and this bike will continue to keep me happy, until I get a new bike.

Dhiraj, I dont understand why everything is mixed up here.
Aargee, I dont even know, havent met, nor has he got any tune from me. From what I know he had seized his stock Honda CBR250R which was replaced by Honda on warranty or something of that sort. How does that mix with my mods? Please be specific and not mix something else here.
The block supplied to Harish was on a tight clearance. With the piston being run-in with heavy luggage and a pillion all the way from Bangalore to chennai, is only going to do damage which i warned. After replacing with a new block, the piston scuffed again with a reason I do not know, since the block was never returned to me to inspect. I've stated the reasons of a piston seizure very clearly elsewhere on this forum. Reasons could be plenty. (Boon is a proof to this entire story. He also had a similar experience, which I addressed. Boon has seized his stock engine (149cc) and the crank etc had already taken a toll)
Later, he took help from his friend in chennai. Who crafted a piston and built the entire engine. In a few days, the engine blew up in thin air after Harish bashed me up enough sometime last year and called it the ever-so-going to-perform-reliable engine, causing severe damage. Finally after settling things over a clash, harish reverted to a different block.
Harish then sent me his ECU for a retune through a cousin of his, with a letter stating that he is using my 165cc block and all the parts are as I supplied and he is extremely happy. On the contrary, he was running, something else (180cc or so). He hid the entire story, untill I was explained all this by his very friend. I yet tuned the ECU and he claims its running fine.
Well, there have been a few scuffing instances specific to the R15 due to tight clearances. I'm pointing here, that this was SPECIFIC to the R15 only. Being an LC engine, and most installs going wrong it was a hard bet.
Even after a clean install, even revving the engine a bit over 4k rpm causes the larger piston to expand and cause fricton on the skirt. As a result, we are now resorting to fully forged pistons for the R15 specifically.
As stated presviously elsewhere with reasons specific to the R15 piston scuffing is caused due to various reasons.
What I dont understand here is that most here are resorting to making statements that tuning in itself is wrong and all my tunes are wrong or bad. And with a few motivated members who are constantly trying to portray things differently, well I leave it to them. We have almost all of our engines running fine, reliably, performing flawlessly and keeping up to the standards. People who know me personally and have seen the real world performance, know what I'm talking about.
When something works good, nobody talks about it. Most know the purpose of this thread. Well, as much as the thread starter is claiming to educate the community of the dark sides of Tuning(?) - well this was an R15 specific issue and not Tuning in general - it also brings out another aspect or motive right behind it. Well, it does not matter at all as long as things go right.
I'm a member on this forum for 8yrs now, gew up with immense passion for engines, started as a biker - touring, catching-up (we still do that with our old pack), grew into tuning, got into racing, starting building my own engines, with requests pouring in - started tuning and now started my own brand and I now race cars as well. It was a rough journey for me, beating so many odds around me. With a lot of encouragement from my fellow members and well wishers. I started this all on my own with no support from any giant. We are growing progressively and eventually have had our own learning curve. Even a manufacturing giant makes mistakes. As stated above, the cylinder scuffing issue was very very specific to the R15 and has no relation to any other kit that we have sold to any other model. having tight tolerances and a very thin margin of run-in perfection, we have now seen a mix of results with a few. Most of the engines run flawless, but a few have such issues. We admit and in all such instances were replaced free of cost and most were never returned back.
Tuning is a process of bumping the tune levels of an engine and even big giants like Mugen, Spoon, Bisi also have their own set of customers who have concerns and they are sorted ofcourse. So much so that our Aagree has a seized engine from factory. Mind you, its a HOnda - The epitome of automobile engineering and perfection, what then? Its not just him, a few bikes have packed up even in Bangalore. If there is an instance, it can be solved and fixed which i have always done. But using this as a tool or an opportunity to fix someone for another business motive is not acceptable. Which is clearly the case, say what!
A few tips I'd like to share here, specific to the R15.
You could buy any forged 180cc block or whatever, no matter whoever makes it or sells it, but you are not going to have reliability anywhere close to stock. Puts a lot of load on the crank (results in connecting failure) and also causes head gasket leakage eventually - with will lead to a massive engine failure. After a few thousand kms.
Larger cc is not going to give u more peak power. While it may help you achieve better low-end, even with a bigvalve head or whatever, the volumetric efficiency of the R15 engine cannot be bumped by much. A fairly larger increase in cc and bump in the top-half parts if the way to go. Which is why we resort to a max upgrade of 175cc. The stroke also is a factor. An increased stroke is further doing to deter the volumetric efficiency and the stroked up and bored up kits are going to ensure, you have a ticking time-bomb.
Nobody talks about how reliable a kit is in the long run when they sell on the internet, but most here get excited about some massive cc upgrade. Every engine has its deisgn limits and shoving a large piston is not the way to go. I have constantly resolves issues and the biggest example was the development of the P220 bigbore. While even the stock block has issues, the new one is bullet proof. Having reliably tested over touring and flat-out runs for a good long period. It took us 18 months to finally come-up with it. The new kit makes the engine smoother, more reliable (piston weights about 10% lesser and is semi forged, while stock is simple casting) and offers the best power gain from that valve size.
The R15 being an engine from a 125cc flatform, cannot hold up great levels of reliability with a 180cc or above upgrade.
The Yamaha FZ is also not going to last too much with a compression ratio above 11:1 and anything above 180cc. I see the trend of people selling huge pistons for these puny engines when they are not even designed to handle. The long term reliability is going to be highly catastrophic.

Each engine has its own reliabiliy limits. We stuck to the 165cc option on the R15 only due to this factor. Considering valve sizing, the max flow the engine can handle and deisgn constraints. All the issues faced by a few members only due to piston scuffing. Had it not been the case, its the best balance for power and reliability. We are ofcourse changing the entire batch with our updated deisgn and is already being offered.
As much as there is criticism about the piston kit, there are plenty of members who are regularly doing inter-state touring, saddle sore with the very same blocks. But all that gets to dark, when someone brings up the darkside, which is fine. We have had our learning curve and we are improving by the day. I do admit the tight clearance was a reason for piston scuffing. In the very same regard, this has nothing to do with any other model or engine. Please stop mixing claims and discussing even a jetting issue or a bad fuel knock with this.

Joel

Some math for you,
The R15 in stock revs to 9998rpm (tacho reads 10.5k)
Stock P220 and P200 revs till 11000rpm

R15 has a mean piston speed of 19.6m/s with a shorter stroke than a P220.
P220 has a mean piston speed of 22.9m/s
P200 - 20.7m/s

Even if the R15 revs to 12000rpm (which in reality only revs to 11500 even with the daytona ECU) the piston speed is only 22.5m/s which is lesser than a P220.
So decide which is more reliable or potent. Again rpm and piston speed alone is not a factor for reliability on the contrary. World-over, we have car tuners spinning to 10k rpm with engines stroked in the range of around 100mm. Thats putting even F1 to shame.

As for your 0-100 timing. Well I guess you probably should not be comparing the 0-100 timing of a 2-stroke with a 4-stroke as the acceleration rate is higher with a 2-stroke even with similar power ratings.
I said we clock under 5.5secs with a 92 kilo dry R15 - Group B race bike with a rider weighing nearly 85 kilos with full gear. Not with a skinny fellow and un-clothed!
We sure know how much power we make, but do not wish to reveal. TVS racing claims their Group B RTR160 to be making 30hp at 12500rpm or so, simply put, we are faster than them around the track!

With all due respect, I called you after 1 week telling my Block got seized, which was after a 1000+KMS of careful run-in under 5K RPM, So your claim on Pillion cannot be justified, coz the engine was just like how I left Banglore on the next day after reaching Chennai and we had a <5K RPM, 10hr drive that day with 3 X 30 min break in-between, so if pillion is going to make any adverse effects, kindly update it on your threads too.

Regarding the ECU part, isn't possible for me to work on, more than one R15?

And not to forget, I dont know about others but to me, you were a gem of a seller, but I stopped to seek advice from you when you started pointing fingers for failures.

Thanks to you

The ECU was tuned by me, when you said through a letter sent by your cousin that its for your own R15 - 165cc with my block. I have a pic of your letter.
Also there were tall claims by you elsewhere that you had ridden my bigbore kitted P220 and it was awesome, while the truth was that, at that point there was only one bike done and it was in Mumbai only - Rakesh Ravindran - Velociraptor. I wonder why such change in attitude to favour me for I dont know what it meant! I didnt account it anyways and simply marked it down!
In the end, you know what you are talking and doing Harish. You could get something talking on this forum, maybe a few members on your side with business. I do not wish to cross lines with you or your work. You have a very smart business model which is to get onto the soft side of the members by saying that you had a dreadful tuning experience with me, while you dont talk about your tuner friend who built a ever-so-reliable engine which almost killed you on the road, and inturn slam everything done by me - down! Mine was only a bigbore and it was duly replaced. You had a ball of metal when it blew with your own tuning experience and your friend giving the touch.
As long as you know what you doing, its good for you. I will not consider this as a business clash for me or a hit on my reputation. I do this for my passion in the sport and not for the business in it. I spend more time racing and developing, than selling my stuffs. All the very best to you.

Signing off from this thread for good,
Joel

Thanks Joel, The thread is about facts and don't take anything personal. Lets drop the word "Business" off this thread and make it more informative. Tonight I will post a complete insight on after-market CAMs and if you have any technical explanations on it do offer them.

Thread Locked until further updates from Harish about his mods.

@Harish Please PM me / report this post whenever you have updates on your ongoing mods.

@others: If you people want to discuss how much power a RC'd CBR250R makes or whether that power is more than a certain green machine, Please do it on a thread which is discussing CBRs. You can create a new thread if you want or discuss it on the ownership thread itself.

An R15 is something entirely different. Please let the thread stay somewhat remotely close to topic.