Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Shiv, I would like to request you to please do post further updates of your bike with the condition of the RC pics, reason being, this is totally outrageous what the seller is doing and the people needs to know. If with pics, all the better. Hardely can we find such detailed reports with all necessary fact from someone. When you remove the rc block to try the new one from Motozone, do provide us with a critical analysis of the condition of the bore even after proper and careful inspection and installation that you did, should be the final nail on the coffin on the RC parts discussion here, then only i feel the discussion will be complete.

Hope you understand,

Cheers
Ride Safe
Krishna

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Shiv 18.....I am highly impressed with your write up on the experience with RC upgrade...
It is sad to see what you have gone through, at your expense,....but the way you had approached the whole experience is commendable.
Your write up is so Factual and to the point...I can't think of a more balanced observation from any of the affected owners .
The Fiero thread you had referred, is full of useful information, wherein owners have upgraded the engine to 180 cc and 200cc all by themselves, and I am glad to be a small part of it.....A similar upgrade of a Karizma to 233 cc was done by an owner using a Pulsar 220 Piston...... the owner took up the upgrade by himself purely for the purpose of learning and the bike is still running without any issues.

Surprising to note that your engine ,after setting in, had consumed so much engine oil...guess the oil is leaking slowly through the rings ...

The Picture of the Damaged P220 upgrade is shocking...If I am correct the P220 is upgraded to 230cc only...an upgrade of 10cc , which should not lead to such catastrophic failure...The lower part of the Piston had broken away from the top portion...Surely POOR QUALITY , which had lead to the disintegration and subsequent breaking of the bore wall itself....I had never seen a bore breaking like this one....shudder to think of the fragments inside the engine and the damage it must have caused..

I am thankful to you for all the information you are sharing openly here,thus upgrading knowledge of many members including me...

Looking forward to your write up on experiences with Motozone...
Good Luck

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Off late I have been seeing the same oil consumption issue in my RC bore too.
I had completed 2800kms with run-in for a 2000km with 4 drain intervals to make sure nothing happens to my baby.
Since My bikr has completed 35K when the RC bore was installed me and my mech suspects a broken valave seal because the bike smoke's on clod starts but once the temp are attained theres no smoke even when ripping the bike

I would be going for a complete valve assembly change tommorw and see if there still oil consumption.
Ps: There's no sign of oil fouling in the spark plug

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Well if you have known me by now... i am a blabberer.. i will post the details on the thread. My guess is (and this is just a guess) the piston weight being on the wrong side is inducing lateral play which is slowly resulting in the piston scuffing on one side more than the other leading to slow leakage of oil.

Thank you sir, This is not a personal war against anyone and to be honest i am in a way regretting for writing such an aggressive post above.. it is so not me!!! But at times i guess shouting is required to clear off the mind and then try to be reasonable and logical... As always many thanks for always guiding me whenever i was in a tight spot. Thank you sir.. I shall continue harassing you when i test the NiKaSil kits too.. Hope to learn more from you.


I wish you nothing but good for your kit as i can understand the amount of money that went into procuring it. And i do hope it is just a leaking valve seal as replacing it will not cost you much cash. All the best mate My valve whole valve assembly is 4,100 kms old. I guess you must be running on the RC camshaft?

Again i do apologise for such an aggressive post.. not my usual nature friends.


Cheers,

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Shv 18...you had been posting your experience with the RC kit from the beginning in a factual manner....there had been no exaggeration or attenuation, and your posts have been true to your experience....... . sometimes I wonder if you are made of stone, for you had not shown any irrelevant emotion..Most in your position,would have reacted differently ,because ,having invested so much of hard earned money, and being taken for a ride ,would have surely chosen choice epithets.
A good Nikasil bore would easily be better than stock bore in all aspects...
Your queries have kept my old grey matter ticking, and kept it "Charged",so i must say a big "Thank you "to you.

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Shiv, mate the way I see it is you just bought a bore and a piston, Same as everyone else who buys the same.
I've got the same but different brand. Difference being is in the assembly. Measuring and double checking. This costs time as the mech needs to take time out of his day to dedicate to this 1 build, the time taken to measure and do the maths he/she could be using doing other tasks that pays more.

I don't want to say too much but I had my doubts regarding the vendor of your kit, Though its not as bad as the one from Automotivesparepartsshop. At least your valves sealed against the seats unlike mine.

There are minimum bore thicknesses and looking at the one with broken liner that looks very thin to me. A true performance bore will maintain some degree of wall thickness capable of withstanding the extra stress a bigger piston will impose. Getting one however will be costly and more than likely involve casting a custom one. Such is the risk we take when playing with engines.

I'm sure you are (on the inside) angry and/or were frustrated but you seem to be treating this as a learning exercise, Which is what it should be. You have learnt a lot with your "hands on" experience rather than reading the theory side of it. Once you have gained the fundamentals and knowledge nothing can take it away from you and you can use it to apply to other builds.

I may end up taking my FZS back to the dyno and get it retuned for the correct AF, rather than the very rich off the charts AF it was tuned to (lack of needle and correct jets) and see what it actually makes.

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013


Mate i have learnt a lot from this exercise and hopefully the next upcoming build will be in a better position to do things correctly. You have always preached one thing.. "Do it once and Do it right!!" The next build with my FZ - X i will ensure that i don't leave it to just anyone's else's hands alone but will do it by the book and do it with precise calculations. As always thank you for your inputs.

Cheers,

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Any further Updates on the bikes condition Shiv18
I went ahead with head inspection and found a leaking valve seal was the culprit for the oil consumption.
Also the piston head carbon readings show a golden brown shade all this with the stock 26 mm carb with 117.5 mainjet and 15 pilot jet and stock needle jet

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Hi as i have mentioned earlier, i shall dismantle the block completely only after the NiKaSil kits arrive. I will be getting the new ported head and mild lift camshaft from Motozone soon so waiting for the that. After i get the NiKaSil kit then we shall dismantle the BB kit and analyse it and share the data with you gentlemen. If i remember correctly we had discussed about the engine oil leak issue on your bike long back and i had suggested you to replace the valve seat/seal along with the valve train system. Regardless the burn seems adequate, what is spark plug reading? I remember you mentioning about good power till 8000 rpm right? Do share your observations with just rejetting the stock BS 26 carburettor it would be a good addition on this thread for discussion mate.


Cheers,

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Before tossing off the RC Bore can you get the compression test done.
I have came across reviews where Motul 300v disappears for no reason.
Yes You had sugessted me to get the entire valve tarin system chaged including the cam bearings and I have done the same now.
Theres no more oily residue in the exhaust tip and dip stickk is back to full level.
Regarding the the carb I must thank my mech who took the pain of finiding the 117.5 jet which was not avaliable with the Bajaj ASC.
My current jet configuration is
Mainjet-117.5
Pilot jet -15
Stock needle jet
I will be soon upgrading as theres seems to be a lag in accleration.Also I dont know what's waiting for me on the other side of 8000rpm
My mech told me it could be due to the wornout slide or the K&N concial filter bolted directly to the carb.
Now I looking for anyone who owns a 33 flatsilde carb to give there honest review regarding the carb.

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

I have already mentioned on my earlier post that a compression test will be carried out to confirm what is the actual reading i am getting compared to the estimates. As far as 300V is concerned i believe i can claim to be one of the extended users of the same on Stock FZ for nearly 15,000 kms. On the stock bike, the maximum consumption even with relentless highways rides was 60 ml. The same can be checked out on the FZ/Fazer ownership thread: one of my old log posts should verify the same. I am not sure why others have faced this issue but in my case i have never had to witness the engine oil vanishing so fast from my ride. As of now slight oil fouling is observed and also the rpms jump up and down a few hundred when the engine has heated up properly.

My guess is the stock BS 26 carburettor has a much higher AFR flow, as a result you might have a slightly jerky mid range and beyond 8k the airflow is too much in comparison to the fuel as a result the bike starves of fuel and starts knocking. More or less the same issues what i had witnessed when i was trying out the stock carb against the damaged carb. If the slide has worn out then you will normally observe the issues i was facing on my ride at rpms between 3k - 5k or slightly higher. The same has been mentioned on this thread.


Regarding 33/32 mm D slide, carburettor it would be better if you ask riders Adarsh_BK and Rylan.

Cheers,

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Thanks @shv18! Though @rylan would be a better person since he has it on FZ itself.

When I got 33mm carb and filter I liked it a lot and the improved response was evident, but now I guess I have to try stock carb once again to accurately evaluate the difference in performance.

To put it in simple terms, these are my points.

Advantages :

1. Better top end and a somewhat linear power delivery compared to stock. Hit 139kmph many times as opposed to 130kmph with stock carb.

2. Reduced vibes at higher rpms.

3. Makes city riding, overtaking, ghats, corners much more enjoyable.


Disadvantages :

1. FE takes a massive hit! I used to get atleast 38kmpl with stock carb no matter what kind of riding I do. But the highest I got with this carb was 37kmpl! and that was non stop riding in highways in speeds on 60-70kmph consistently. You ride at 120+ kmph at wide open throttle in highways and FE drops to 28-30kmpl. FE in city was around 30-34kmpl. After tuning the carb myself, the lower half of throttle is almost stoich, with brown coloured spark plug but the other half is fully black so clearly indicating richer tune. Maybe with proper jetting it might improve but I guess it is safer to have richer tune at higher rpms than a leaner one! But best to have a stoich one Will try to get appropriate jets and verify again.

2. The idling and sub 2k rpm is unstable. No matter what I do the idle fluctuates a lot and according to seller it cannot be rectified.

3. Cold start is an issue. Choke is a must, daily morning and evening.


If you are looking at a good balance of power and FE stick to BS26 which you have now. Else you can take the plunge and enjoy better response at the cost of FE.

Damn! @shv18 had told me the exact same thing so many times during our discussions through PMs but still I was greedy for power went for it! Cant say I regret this decision but cant say I enjoy it wholeheartedly either!


And @shv18, I really have to appreciate your neutral reviews right from the start! And the amount of info you have unearthed is truly commendable!!

Keep up the good work!

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

From what I know Shv18 has BS29 carb...
A 33mm Flat slide Carb is an overkill..for even a Over bored 180cc.....normally the thumb rule for selecting a Flat slide compared to a CV carb is ,to select a carb 4~5mm less for the flat slide compared to the CV.So theoretically a 24~25 mm Flat slide will do good in place of a BS29...

A CV carb is more forgiving in tuning than a Flat slide.

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Thanks for your inputs psr ji!

But the 33mm carb I have is not a proper flat slide. It is a CV carb itself but not with round slide. It is in a shape of a letter D, somewhat flatter on one side and round on the other.

I totally agree with you, a proper 33mm flat slide would surely be an overkill. And I guess a flat slide carb is a strict no-no for touring, where the tune can go haywire.
With this carb, I have been to ooty, chikmagalur and other areas with same tune & it performed well. (In fact it performed much better in ooty compared to blore!).

I will surely be reverting to stock carb and filter when getting leh'd in future!

Re: End Of RC Era, the truth and statutory warning for all noobs, 5th Aug, 2013

Can you tell me the exact Jet size you currenlty have
The points narrows down to wrong fueling I suppose (Cold sstart & irregular idiling )