Announcement

**abhimanyu31** · 10-16-2012, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by stefanm View Post

Been rocking the 180cc kit for the past 7 months, stick with mineral oil for the first 1000 clicks, do change the oil at least 3 times in that period, say 50km's, 250km's and 500km's, the at 1000km's switch to fully synthetic, i am using motul 300v, Joel recommends Agip 15w50, though I can't seem to find it in Goa and the Motul distributor is only 15 mins from my house. The benefits you'll find are, you can roll around in 6th gear and have good acceleration from low rpm's (real good torque), good power spread even before you get into the power band, this makes overtaking a breeze throughout the gears, clutchless shifting up and down, the downside is it's more vibey than the 165cc kit (although in a good way) seems to need better quality fuel (I use normal 91 ron fuel, with system G, transmission fluid and tolouene, as you're in Bombay, you can try either full speed 97 or a 50/50 mix of 97 and regular 91, just bare in mind outside the big cities, HP and BP serve up 87 ron in most places, this will lead to a lot of knocking).

Which cam are you going to be running? very interested in this as I am currently running the same as you, wouldn't mind trying something new.

Joel is suppose to send me a new cam which is supposedly 'better' than the one I am currently using along with a specially designed FFE for 180 cc.

As per my discussion with Joel this build will have very high compression, hence, will have to run 97 octane right from inception.

The call on oil can be taken later. There is still time for the build (more parts are expected) and so have time to deliberate. Actually, there are two schools of thought on this issue. The first school of thought is as you have suggested, however, the second school of thought suggest running fully synthetic right out of the box. There is some validity in what is being suggested and practiced by these tuners. Taking advantage of the superior quality of oils now available, engine builders have now started running tolerances which would have caused engine seizures a few years back. They point towards high performance engine builds like M Class, AMG, Porsche which use fully synthetic oil right from the start.

**HarishK** · 10-16-2012, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

J They point towards high performance engine builds like M Class, AGM, Porsche which use fully synthetic oil right from the start.

No harm in using Full Synthetic oil, end of the day they comply with your XXWXX rating (15W50). Just make sure you warm up the bike appropriately before starting to operate it normally, coz FS oil needs more heat to come down to normal viscosity.

**shv18** · 10-16-2012, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

Joel is suppose to send me a new cam which is supposedly 'better' than the one I am currently using along with a specially designed FFE for 180 cc....

I guess that will be sent along with my 2nd lot of shipment. What is your take on the 10:5:1 ratio compression bump compared to the stock 9:5:1 compression ratio for my Yamaha FZ? How would it affect the kind of fuel to be used in my ride? As far as i am aware of normal pump gas rated with 91 RON should be fairly good enough..

Your new R18 along with the 180cc kit should be doing 13:1 compression or higher is guess thats why higher Octane is required like in SBKs please correct me if i am wrong on this.

Cheers,

**abhimanyu31** · 10-16-2012, 10:01 PM

The POWERHOUSE Fz18

^^^ a lot depends on the design of the combustion chamber. Actually, the compression ratio is a misleading yard stick, you cannot judge the octane requirement on the basis of compression ratios alone. I have personally seen super bikes with ratios as high as 12.5:1 run on regular gas (FZR 1000 of 1992 is one example) without any problems at all and I have also seen bikes with compression ratios as low as 9.5:1 (TZR 250 unrestricted) showing signs of detonation. To a large extent the design of the combustion chamber and piston among other things dictate the octane requirement.

Off the cuff, I don't think that your 180cc big bore will have problem running regular gas, however, Joel will the right guy to answer the same.

**shv18** · 10-16-2012, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

^^^ a lot depends on the design of the combustion chamber. Actually, the compression ratio is a misleading yard stick, you cannot judge the octane requirement on the basis of compression ratios alone. I have personally seen super bikes with ratios as high as 12.5:1 run on regular gas (FZR 1000 of 1992 is one example) without any problems at all and I have also seen bikes with compression ratios as low as 9.5:1 (TZR 250 unrestricted) showing signs of detonation. To a large extent the design of the combustion chamber and piston among other things dictate the octane requirement.

Off the cuff, I don't think that your 180cc big bore will have problem running regular gas, however, Joel will the right guy to answer the same.

Thanks for your inputs, i already had a chat with Joel regarding the same. As per him, the 180cc kit for FZ has been designed to run on regular pump gas/normal petrol and doesn't need speed 97 or anything. I just felt it would be a good exercise to have a second opinion so that the general public and Noobs who are silently reading this thread get more info on the same.

Cheers,

**Mad Mik** · 10-17-2012, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post

As per my discussion with Joel this build will have very high compression, hence, will have to run 97 octane right from inception.
Tune it on a diet of 97 would be my advice. Run the best fuel (clean, highest octane, fresh) you can get on a daily basis around where you intend to ride. No point getting a engine built to run on 100RON when the nearest 100RON fuel pump is 200kms away. More Octane the more Power and less chance of detonating.

The call on oil can be taken later. There is still time for the build (more parts are expected) and so have time to deliberate. Actually, there are two schools of thought on this issue. The first school of thought is as you have suggested, however, the second school of thought suggest running fully synthetic right out of the box. There is some validity in what is being suggested and practiced by these tuners. Taking advantage of the superior quality of oils now available, engine builders have now started running tolerances which would have caused engine seizures a few years back. They point towards high performance engine builds like M Class, AMG, Porsche which use fully synthetic oil right from the start.

This is the oil I used to run my engine in and first few Oil changes before switching to Motul 300V (first time Motul is run in my engine) for higher kms between changes.

BOTTLE RX 4T RACING Synt Engine OIL (SAE 10W-50) :: 4T OIL :: MalossiStore

No problems with my engine run in, Gave it a good flogging

except now I want more HP

1200kms+ running only 100% synth, No oil consumed, engine is vibration free, not overheating, though at slow speeds and in traffic I can feel some "wafts" of hot air passing my legs, Engine quiet for the most part (tappets adjustment helped) and revs very freely.
I can't say if my gear shift is "butter smooth" but when I shift I can feel it engage with a nice firm engagement and a little resistance. Nice solid notchy engagement.
I can't stand sloppy shifts
I imagine "butter smooth" being just very light engagement, with no resistance, Just a little pressure and you've changed gears

**shv18** · 10-23-2012, 12:41 PM

Newer Valves & HID

Hi All,

I recently had a conversation with Joel regarding any parts that i may need to overhaul or replace since, I have already done about 23k kms on the stock set up. Joel advised me to replace the inlet and exhaust valves with new ones the moment the new ported head comes back from RC. I feel others should follow this process as well. For Noobs wondering why is this necessary... if i have understood correctly, after 23k kms the OEM stock valves have honed properly has per the stock inlet and exhaust head. By putting in newer valves with the ported head, will let the new parts gel in with the modified head properly now, something which is not advisable with the original valves..

I will check the engine base when i am getting the installation done and will see if everything is in good condition.

The cost of Inlet and Exhaust valves for FZ as per my conversation with Kamla Yamaha, Sewree, Mumbai SVC: 400 bucks INR only!! So won't pinch anyone so hard..

As i have mentioned in the FZ ownership thread, i will also go for the HID upgrade a 35watt 4300K set up from Navnish, Tourer Gear in due course of time... So lets see how she responds to my undying love to keep her happy and more power!

Cheers,

**Mad Mik** · 10-24-2012, 06:53 PM

Good idea to get new valves to go in your new head. no point in spending all that money on new parts and use some old slightly worn valves in it.
Can you do us a favor? check for wear on the valve stems?
It will be interesting to see and feel with your fingertips the wear on them. spin the stem between your finger tips and check if they have any edges.

**shv18** · 10-24-2012, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Mad Mik View Post

Good idea to get new valves to go in your new head. no point in spending all that money on new parts and use some old slightly worn valves in it.
Can you do us a favor? check for wear on the valve stems?
It will be interesting to see and feel with your fingertips the wear on them. spin the stem between your finger tips and check if they have any edges.

Will do Mik. As i have mentioned everywhere, i intend my write ups to be as exhaustive as possible and may follow your and Luke's footsteps trying to click the extreme close up pics of the stock head, valves, the chamber, stock piston, stock rings, crankshaft health, clutch plates health check up and the installation pics ofcourse. I will try and keep it Noob friendly and let other senior guys do the tech talking so that Noobs don't start scratching their head and think of it as a history or maths examination paper

Its just that i still have the pending work to finish before i can get my hands on the Kits...so everything is getting frekkin delayed.

I do have one question Mik regarding the HID mod: if your ride now goes over a pot hole or undulated roads does the bulb shake a bit unlike the stock bulb which the light remains steady?. Secondly have you had a chance to test the HID in rains? The reason i ask is a lot of users have complained that the HID light is completely useless when one is doing night riding in the rains regardless of the colour temps of the bulb!!

Your feedback may help me a lot!

Cheers,

**Mad Mik** · 10-24-2012, 10:13 PM

The projector is quite stable, doesn't bounce around or wiggle. I have 2 silicone washers that are sandwiched between the housing and the projector body, the locking nut tightens against them (silicone washers) that prevent it from wiggling around. I have also run some silicone around the rear of the housing to help lock the nut in place but also to help seal against water leaks.
Can't comment on riding in the rain as I try to avoid that. I also don't ride around much at night but when I have there is plenty of lights from shops, street lamps and the hundreds of other scooter riders, taxis etc so no dark unlit places near me.

**albyjose** · 11-05-2012, 09:51 PM

Some questions:
1)I know that free flow exhaust is a compromise with laws in India,what about big bore?What about insurance and pollution norms?
2)I wish there was a comparison of FZ18 with 200 NS,RC modded karizhma,and some other stock bikes.Will help a lot of guys to make their decision about going for mods or to sell of and get another machine.Help me out here,I think FZ is the perfect bike,without considering the low power to mileage ratio

.
3)Can some one give FZ18 's 0-100 kmph figure?
4)And suggest to the idea,of dropping the plan to buy a new bike and getting a decent second hand FZ to mod?
5)How much money should one keep apart for modding(I don't want exact figure,just an approximate amount one must save,I am talking about RC mods).
5)What kind of mods would be good to change FZ to better city tool?(don't need top speed more than say,100

,extra is always welcome)

**shv18** · 11-06-2012, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by albyjose View Post

Some questions:
1) I know that free flow exhaust is a compromise with laws in India,what about big bore?What about insurance and pollution norms

ANS: Yes it is indeed a mod done without taking prior permission from the insurance company and keeping laws in mind. However, since the BB kit from outside is indistinguishable then the stock kit, i would just say...you get a green light to do things by not saying much to anyone. Hope the point is understood. Pollution surprisingly under the limits! If you are still skeptical, on the day of renewing the polluting certificate,fit the stock exhaust, get the certificate and switch back to FFE just for the peace of your mind!

2) I wish there was a comparison of FZ18 with 200 NS,RC modded karizma,and some other stock bikes.Will help a lot of guys to make their decision about going for mods or to sell of and get another machine.Help me out here,I think FZ is the perfect bike,without considering the low power to mileage ratio

.

ANS: Well for that you will have to wait for a bit. I am still not in Mumbai to commence my ride's heart transplant. I am in talks with Power To The Rider boys.. they seem to be interested to crack a whip on my souped up ride and give their perspectives on the same. I believe their word can be counted as genuine as they have always been impartial and carefree when criticizing a product from any stable. Regardless, I intend to provide data telemetry images, graphs and telemetry embedded Go Pro videos to provide a quantifiable data on various tests.

3)Can some one give FZ18 's 0-100 kmph figure?

ANS: You will have to wait for that. G-Tech data will be available once the tune up is done and speed runs are done with the help of Ace Rider Joel Raju and under supervision of senior rider abhimanyu31. Till then can't help you with that. Rylan's test ride has yielded 0-100 kmph on the speedo in 9 seconds flat! you can check out the video in Rylan's page.

4)And suggest to the idea,of dropping the plan to buy a new bike and getting a decent second hand FZ to mod?

ANS: It is always recommended to get a well maintained bike with a very low mileage as the engine internals are very new and can handle the add on pressure from the RC kits. Best example would be of Jonahmano's ride which went under the knife with barely 3k kms in stock form since the date of purchase. If the ride is old and has clocked a significant amount of kms then an inspection of the base engine is a must.. checking the health of the crank and other parts is mandatory and one has to replace any parts that are showing signs of fatigue before going ahead with the installation of mods.

If one does install RC kits without doing a check up of the base engine and the engine internals are weak then please do expect an engine seizure and don't come after Joel or RC! It has been already mentioned many times that the base engine has to be in good condition to take the bump in compression ratio (read 10:5:1 compared to stock 9:5:1) and overall power to be transmitted efficiently to the rear tire without putting too much stress on the internals.

5)How much money should one keep apart for modding(I don't want exact figure,just an approximate amount one must save,I am talking about RC mods).

ANS: Respecting the tuner's request please get in touch with Joel regarding pricing.
Mail: [email protected]

5)What kind of mods would be good to change FZ to better city tool?(don't need top speed more than say,100

,extra is always welcome)

ANS: Based on personal experience, start with the FFE. You will see a world of difference with the way the nos. start climbing up to 100 kmph whereas in stock form it was a pain. Plus the engine will rev to red line in no time! However at a compromise of the sound. If one wants to retain the stock exhaust then BBkit+Cylinder port from Joel RC+Camshaft+29mm CV carb and especially the stock replacement free flow air filter is a must upgrade!!

Worse case scenario if budget is the issue start with BB kit+cylinder porting+29mm CV Carb and then later go for the camshaft+air filter. Just with bb kit you will not get major bump as it would be restricted by other stock parts and stock fuelling.

My answers in BOLD.

Cheers,

**albyjose** · 11-06-2012, 10:00 AM

Perfectly said!Thanks.

**navileinad9102** · 11-07-2012, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by Mad Mik View Post

The projector is quite stable, doesn't bounce around or wiggle. I have 2 silicone washers that are sandwiched between the housing and the projector body, the locking nut tightens against them (silicone washers) that prevent it from wiggling around. I have also run some silicone around the rear of the housing to help lock the nut in place but also to help seal against water leaks.
Can't comment on riding in the rain as I try to avoid that. I also don't ride around much at night but when I have there is plenty of lights from shops, street lamps and the hundreds of other scooter riders, taxis etc so no dark unlit places near me.

Mik, please put many pictures of HID headlight projector, where I can to see every component and how they should put the projector in the original lamp

Originally posted by albyjose View Post

Some questions:
1)I know that free flow exhaust is a compromise with laws in India,what about big bore?What about insurance and pollution norms?
2)I wish there was a comparison of FZ18 with 200 NS,RC modded karizhma,and some other stock bikes.Will help a lot of guys to make their decision about going for mods or to sell of and get another machine.Help me out here,I think FZ is the perfect bike,without considering the low power to mileage ratio

.
3)Can some one give FZ18 's 0-100 kmph figure?
4)And suggest to the idea,of dropping the plan to buy a new bike and getting a decent second hand FZ to mod?
5)How much money should one keep apart for modding(I don't want exact figure,just an approximate amount one must save,I am talking about RC mods).
5)What kind of mods would be good to change FZ to better city tool?(don't need top speed more than say,100

,extra is always welcome)

Originally posted by albyjose View Post

Some questions:
1)I know that free flow exhaust is a compromise with laws in India,what about big bore?What about insurance and pollution norms?
2)I wish there was a comparison of FZ18 with 200 NS,RC modded karizhma,and some other stock bikes.Will help a lot of guys to make their decision about going for mods or to sell of and get another machine.Help me out here,I think FZ is the perfect bike,without considering the low power to mileage ratio

.
3)Can some one give FZ18 's 0-100 kmph figure?
4)And suggest to the idea,of dropping the plan to buy a new bike and getting a decent second hand FZ to mod?
5)How much money should one keep apart for modding(I don't want exact figure,just an approximate amount one must save,I am talking about RC mods).
5)What kind of mods would be good to change FZ to better city tool?(don't need top speed more than say,100

,extra is always welcome)

Originally posted by albyjose View Post

Some questions:
1)I know that free flow exhaust is a compromise with laws in India,what about big bore?What about insurance and pollution norms?
2)I wish there was a comparison of FZ18 with 200 NS,RC modded karizhma,and some other stock bikes.Will help a lot of guys to make their decision about going for mods or to sell of and get another machine.Help me out here,I think FZ is the perfect bike,without considering the low power to mileage ratio

.
3)Can some one give FZ18 's 0-100 kmph figure?
4)And suggest to the idea,of dropping the plan to buy a new bike and getting a decent second hand FZ to mod?
5)How much money should one keep apart for modding(I don't want exact figure,just an approximate amount one must save,I am talking about RC mods).
5)What kind of mods would be good to change FZ to better city tool?(don't need top speed more than say,100

,extra is always welcome)

**Mad Mik** · 11-07-2012, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by navileinad9102 View Post

Mik, please put many pictures of HID headlight projector, where I can to see every component and how they should put the projector in the original lamp

I put up some pics in my guide to intall a projector headlight. I can't post up anymore as I'm not in Vietnam. I'm in Australia working. My projector will differ most likely to the ones you can get, You will be better off going into a vendor and seeing what HID's are available for sale, then going from there.

Announcement

The POWERHOUSE Fz18

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