Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

40 Bhp !! 60 Nm !! Electric !! the most powerfull FZs

FZ Tork Teaser: PowerDrift - YouTube

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Its a full convoy of men bashing at me for benefits best known to them.
I have my reasons to explain, if I may.
There is so much here I'm lost as to what really is the problem with the FZ-16 thread. What started by Shivang as a praise for parts supplied by me, to eventually a bashing thread. Its come a long way. I have technically given nothing faulty to him and assured him of assistance for all that he wanted. Then came that part where I was hard to reach for his queries. Happens that he met the MZ guys at pune who offered to kit the bike and then as usual Mr Vikram says this is crap, that is crap. Buy my stuff I'll give you better stuffs. The same Mr Vikram who would call me for my parts, sometime back and ask for suggestions.
Please note, the MZ guys sell the same bigbore kit as we do, from my partner vendor for whom the parts were co-developed by us. The pistons were designed by us and modelled and reproduced. If someone takes claims for this, too bad. We have proof for the drawings and all the work. The pulsar pistons and FZ and bigbore kits and our initial batch of R15 kits are sold by the vendor - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
While the claim is that we are selling chinese parts which are off the shelf etc. I dont wish to talk too much about more things in detail on a public forum. I think the so called person has to learn to maintain certain business ethics and not say his stuff is better than mine. For someone to even compare what our cylinder head work looks like and to make improvements and comments. I sure know what we offer. Its sad to provoke others for their selfish benefits. Can MZ share the ignition curve of the FZ CDi that they claim to have developed? Anybody can put stickers or print and claim they made it. Who talks about the real effort behind this?
Coming to the exhaust part that Shivang highlighted here. Yes the older versions were rusty due to their mild steel construction. The problem was resolved by switching to stainless steel versions. Now we have further gone a step ahead by lowering the prices but offering more value with 304 stainless steel - 2 piece full system exhausts. Its just weird about how one then starts comparing with an off-the-shelf import exhaust and then claims that even the performance of my exhaust is crap. Noted, please wait for dyno figures soon of all our exhausts.
The camshaft for the FZ had a certain aggressive lobe ramping which resulted in ticking noise and the non-decomp version solved the problems.
A performance cam cannot give the best of low end power, mid range and high end power. Its always a compromise to the ultra low end feel of the stock cam to get better top end power. The higher duration and lift makes the engine sluggish for low end performance which is the whole truth of a performance cam. The desired rpm range is the only way it can work. if someone claims all ends of power, then its pure bullshit.
Coming to the bigbore. Please note that a high compression engine is finally prone to fatigue over a period of time. probably the crankshaft or whatever is the weak link, gives up. If there package is not set right. What does not break even at 40000kms, finally gives up one fine day. Bad fuel, knocks, excessive carbon deposits etc are reasons. We have the R15 engines in bangalore which have clocked over 60k and no problems with the same rings and block with only regular maintenance. While some fail at 5000kms. Liquid cooled high comp engines will need gasket replacements every 25-30k kms to ensure the water does not enter the chamber to cause a hydro-lock and blow the piston. The pic above is that. A leaky cylinder head gasket.
Even Stock engines fail. You either melt a piston or seize the skirt. Seizure is a factor of excess heat due to metallic expansion. Even the correct oil level or oil grade cannot stop.
I have always advised if anyone can come to us for the installs, we are willing to offer them. Right from shivang, a lot have now said they are happy with the engines done at Motozone, well I cant deny coz coming to a specialist shop (with decent engine fixing and tuning understanding) will ensure you get all the things done the right way. We send the kits and then a local roadside mech is given the job to install and in most cases its a disaster. We cant bring the whole country under a roof to do all the job and we all know it. We have seen cases where piston are installed the wrong way and rings jumbled up. Who is to be blamed? Having said that there are clear instances of things still going wrong like a few cases mentioned elsewhere.
We have upgraded our hardware and are willing to offer upgrades to all those who have concerns. The FZ has a higher dome which was initially meant for racing - 220psi and higher compression, later we noticed the need for lowering the comp to work with the lower grade fuel.
The FZ is recommended to have a modified head to have the right combustion pattern and also a larger head gasket. We have suggested a few to use the stock gasket coz a lot of times the mechs have messed up cutting the head gasket right and ending up with leaky heads. A stock gaskets atleast wont leak, we sure know its not the best way. We have always opened the gaskets for engines built by us and we are now offering the kits only with the cylinder head gasket to comply with the new piston diameter.
A piston breaking is finally a matter of it reaching a point of fatigue. In case of liquid cooled engines its due to leaky head gaskets as mentioned above. Excess compression and at times lean mixture. Its mostly the compression build up.
We are making constant improvements to the kits and with the right install and setup we can have a trouble free setup.
We have tons of FZ-16s and R15s and other bikes with the bigbore kits running absolutely brilliant for years. carb tune issues and minor things that crop and things to attend even on a stock bike. You cant expect even a stock bike to have the same level of performance after clocking 20k kms.
Quoting Kirthi on his GS150 experience, he has clocked over 20k kms and he said he wanted to do more mods. I said its personally not worth spending more money on a commuter engine like this, rather sell off and get a bigger bike to satisfy the power greed. He has slight carb gliches which are part of a long term maintenance.
Why is a reaction for that? I see people getting hyper over no reason.
Somebody here just called me a fraud and claiming our cars are crap. Please feel free to come down, compare our performance standards with international standards set and then lets talk. I dont know why one talk leads to another false claim. Why cant things be just brought to notice the right way.
We have our point proven on the track and the records talk for themselves. It couldnt have been otherwise.
This bashing is a benefit for a few to get better benefits with people they are favouring at the moment. While for most its clean entertaintment.
If anyone here has a serious technical concern can take it up with me and we can end the hide and seek. Like I said we have upgrades replacements and are willing to correct if any have to be addressed.
This thread has become a field to express inner rage, business tactics, sideline our work and then shut it for me.
Due to the repeated delays in delivery deadlines and order delays is why we have taken a new route in scraping all our old ways of working, people and making things come out for the better. No delays in turn around time from the committed deadline without any explanations, otherwise its a clean refund. I personally dont wish the same community which I grew with, bashing around for irrelevant reasons.
I apologise for all the delays in orders and support I could not personally provide. My only request is to stop the unwanted talks which are misleading and not right about me. I will ensure to be more active with replies, mails and tune, and we are in constant improvement of the parts bin we have on offer.
Please tell me what I have to do, to help things technically and not a bashing thread!

Let's learn more about engines Part 2

Hi All,

in my consistent effort to educate riders and also learn and share from each other, lets move our class to next set of videos:


1) Piston Blow-by: I am sure a lot of riders may have heard about this term at some point on xbhp. One may have also noticed slight amount of oil deposition at the bottom of the air filter box. So first let us understand how a piston blow-by occurs:

PCV System (Part 2) - What is Blow-by - YouTube

2) Effects of Blow- by: This video will reflect the effects of blow-by. By nature if your piston rings have gone kaput, the blow-by will result in poisoning of the engine oil and you may notice the engine oil becoming black very quickly as the video link suggests:

PCV System (Part 3) - The Effects of Blow-by - YouTube

3) First generation Anti Blow by measures. This video will help you understand further how a manufacturer overcomes the problems of blow-by by using PCV system:

PCV System (Part 4) - Removing Blow-by, First Generation - YouTube

4) PCV system or Positive Control Valve. This system is present in almost all bikes used to encourage Positive Crankcase Ventilation. The hose is usually connected to the Airbox from your bike's engine so that when the engine is running, any blow-by gases are drawn away from the engine and gets re-introduced into the combustion chamber to burn off the unwanted gases and also reduce the emission further. Some riders may have noticed a slight amount of oil deposition at the bottom of the air filter box. That hose connected to your airbox is the same thing we are referring to here This video will give the readers an idea how the thing works.

PCV System (Part 5) - The PCV System is Born - YouTube

5) Effects of a malfunctioning PCV system:

PCV System (Part 6) - Symptoms of a MIssing or Defective PCV System - YouTube


Now for all the Noobs scratching their head over these technical terminologies wondering how is this related to the Tooner and his Big Blown Kits?? The video links above are trying to make you understand is certain basics about the functioning of an engine. The piston blow-by occurs due to the nature of the functioning of a piston engine. For readers who have referred to the older posts on this thread and heard the term piston - blowby somewhere in the discussion, it will make a lot of sense to them. Usually when a piston blow-by occurs the PCV system in our respective bikes take the unwanted gases from the engine to the airbox where it is again re-introduced to the combustion chamber to be burnt off in order to reduce emission. Now due to the nature of condensation, some amount of these greasy vapours turns liquid and the residual sticky oil may be found sometimes at the bottom of the airbox which is completely normal. The cause for alarm starts the moment the amount of residual oil becomes too much inside the airbox which may indicated failed piston rings. So for readers and all the riders who have suffered in the hands of the Tooner, if you do witness this phenomenon at the bottom of the airbox where the residual oil is too much then there is a possibility that the piston rings have failed leading to excessive blow-by of gases from the combustion chamber which is being regulated by the PCV system.

Since, all the data shared before in the earlier report logs on this thread suggests the oval nature of the cylinder to the shoddy quality of the piston kit from the famous BB kit/Big Blown kits, i won't be surprised if many of the existing owners of the Tooned bikes may have witnessed the same as early as 3,000 kms (if the kits are still surviving!! ). If anyone of you are able to identify this symptom then probably taking off the kit and reverting to stock before the unthinkable happens would be a good idea.

I hope the series of such educational videos will help of us becoming better informed riders and also in some circumstances understand and marvel at the engineering that goes behind to keep everything ticking without any problems and most of the times the user being completely unaware of it.

Hope we learned something more today..


Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Talking about Motozone, ive never heard a single person saying that Motozone claims this and that or they manufactur the CDI. Dude I have proof of what they told me almost 6 months back when I asked them about your big bore kits when I didn't even know what Motozone was, they just told me in a very simple lingo that they might last 50k kms pr even seize at 500kms, better running in and proper observation is required.
They never asked me to come down to their shop and buy their products, I even asked them if they manufacture those Big Bore kits, they said no we dont, we get it from a vendor.
I hae more biker friends than you habe as your customers Joel, if you want I can make them speak about what Motozone has conveyed.
Humiliating publically wont make you a Tuner, u will remain the same tooner who cheats people. U wasted 1 and half month and 50k of mine. What do you have to say about that, the money you have returned is not what ive spend on your Drama.
Getting back to the topic.
Motozone didn't call me to get my bike repaired by them, I was forced to take my bike there with my friends exhaust because you have no bloo** idea what time means and what I had been facing because of you. Idiot!
I went to motozone to get a new exhaust which you failed to deliver even after 5+ weeks of cribbing. So now when I went to Motozone pune, I saw a pulsar 200 standing. While we were discussing about my new exhaust I went to buy a pack of cigarettes on that pulsar 200 which they had made for a customer. I immediately came back without even buying my ciggies and asked them, WHAT ON EARTH HAVE YOU DONE TO THIS BIKE. I was shocked to hear it was a p200.
I was feeling so ashamed to have a 220 which was half of what that 200 was. I immediately asked him to do all he can to make it more powerful than this 200. Next day he called me up and told me to have a look at what my Head looked like, please note: I had already seen my head, writing this so that Mr Tooner doesn't have a soft corner saying he must have replaced it with some other head.
So the head was carved with an ice cream scooper. I asked him to do anything he wants to do so as to make her a proper beast.
Next day I was called and asked to take a spin.
My bike was literally flying, so much power, so much grunt and such smoothness I got.
It was unbelievable for me.
It was hard for me to swallow it down my throat that I burnt my 40 grands on a Tooner. My father's hard earned money.
Since that day ive clocked somee 5k kms, thw happiness I have got in those 5k kms has never been felt before.
Again saying the same words: O am yet to hear a single person who claims to have heard motozone saying that they have manufactured the Race CDI and the Big Bore kit.
I know ull get your well wishers here to say that they have heard them saying this and that
One more thing, Mr Vikram genuinely told me that you have a very good Bore installed by luck which will last long because I took all the necessary care and preventions. So if that makes hima tall claimer then I guess you should go back to school and learn something called studies.

So now after so much discussion done on this topic. shv18 has perfectly elaborated every single thing in the best manner possible with no false claims and no fake stories like you. We both were used by you and we are here to tell everyone what we went through amd why we ask them not to go for your products and work.

Please stop sending your Friends or Spies at other mech to see how they work and how they do the headwork, your stealing others work and ideas and then calling it a success? Cheap marketing strategy dude.

By the way whom did you call a road side mechanic?? Dude your garage is also on a road side. I firmly believe those road side mechs are better than your mechs and you.

Talking about your cars?? Come down to vadodra someday, ill show you what a Cedia can do and what you call international standards. Open challenge dude.




Sent from my GT-N7100 using xBhp Connect mobile app

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Not trying to drag you into the battle [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] but you should atleast give appropriate replies after joel showed up and replied to the thread ..you not replying to your own thread while others are squabbling may send a wrong message
CHEERS


Sent from my GT-I9100 using xBhp Connect mobile app

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

[MENTION=11828]Joel[/MENTION] Thank you for coming out and responding. I understand that people are bashing you, calling you names etc and it may not really change much, but at least you replied. Please be more active on these threads and sort out people's problems.

@ everyone else, guys I think we have gone over board again. This was to be a clean informative thread. Not a bashing thread. Please maintain decorum.

And NO I have not been paid by anyone to say this. I am subscribed to this thread and read it, Its sad to read most of the things being posted recently.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

His purpose is not to give appropriate replies to Joel but to help others better understand their bikes before blindly giving it to xyz for a performance boost up ..

Go through his last post "Let's learn more about engines Part 2", and skip the squabbling that others are doing ..

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

while its good that joel came out to reply, however it is "TOO LITTLE TOO LATE"

you dont need [MENTION=32641]shv18[/MENTION] to reply to joel, all those who exists on the indian biking scene from a long time know about all the drama. earlier also we used to ask him questions, to which he never replied in a strightforward way, instead indulged in personal attacks on the person asking the questions.

infact many old timers can easily spot that the attitude and tone of reply of joel is very much changed now.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Agreed, too little, too late.

@ All, please just post experiences in a nice way. I see that some people are taking this to the next level. Kindly refrain from personal attacks. Also, if someone posts their opinion, please respect the fact that they have lost money, and not everyone has money to burn and lose.

I see people saying that it shouldn't be taken to just any mechanic etc and taken to Joel's workshop/garage. What is the purpose of the "Plug and Pray" aspect then?
It is like Microsoft launching Windows 95, and then saying, "Oh your printer doesn't work, bring it to Redmond for installation". What is plug and pray about that?
Next is the bullet proof reliability claims - even more than the manufacturers. Doesn't appear that way now, does it?
The final aspect is the amount of excuses given and delayed responses and even more delayed shipping. How is that even ethical? It is only because of the awareness raised in this thread that the seller has even bothered to respond.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

@Joel @Akki4134

As much as this thread is informative, it's really a predicament for us to judge the bickering that's blatant. If someone really wants to prove themselves, please take them offline or contact them personally. Public vilification is gonna lead to more bitter bickerings and it's not gonna do much good for the forum integrity.

A healthy competition is what xBhp strives for and will be its policy.

A kind request to modders/parts suppliers, please make sure the part you're selling is either genuine or is tested to the right spec. Not everyone here is going to race or not everyone here is as deep pocketed as one may think. People spend their hard earned money just for that little extra juice from their motorcycles. And i request them to have the right certifications/approvals, tests or attestation of the certification.

Please don't sell products or reaffirm products just because it's dyno run or dyno tested. People want "reliability" more as opposed to "usability".

And members, please make sure you guys do your own research before zeroing in the plethora of aftermarket stuff that's on offer. If you'll remember that the performance gain you're gonna gain from such "money-intenstive" products isn't much. Please use your common sense before purchasing self attested/approved products, you end up paying the bill, not the company that sells them.

I hope this is loud and clear for everyone.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

@abhijit and aditya, I have no choice but to delete your posts. I know it's your experience, but it's gonna lead to more bickering. I hope you guys will understand the need behind it.

Thanks for your continued cooperation.

Cheers!
VJ

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

I believe more than trying to maintain peace in a particular thread, xBhp should associate itself with higher virtues like impartiality, truth and giving equal opportunities to everyone. We never cribbed when Joel promoted his business here. Now that certain malpractices have been irrevocably uncovered, it is only fair that xBhp allows both sides to present their side of the story.

Of course it goes without saying that all of this must be done without any personal attacks and slandering.

I am NOT doing this for any personal motive - the only motive here is to generate awareness among members here regarding certain wrong dongs of a member called Joel. This is so that they too are not mislead. In fact let it be clear if it is not already so - I DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE ENDORSE MOTOZONE.

I can not, but say that that I am more than slightly disappointed by your action.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

What a change in attitude! WOW

Now you accept that your stuff was not bullet proof. Why did you claim so before? You followed cheap tactics to get customers and now you dont want people to discuss or bash you publicly.

You are still more concerned about some Motozone Shop and least bothered to answer the people over here whom you made to suffer. You made them fool by giving nonsense excuses, you made them to wait for months and finally gave no support.

What your answer to that? I apologize? Sorry I don't need your fake apology!

You now publicaly claim that you FFE was mild steel and prone to rust. Did you inform me about this while i gave you the order? NO!

You promised to give replacement but never gave it. Its been more than 2 years now do you have any answer for that? Did you offer any refund to me? Did you pick my calls? NO!


I am least bothered about any other mod shop(MZ, etc) as i dont have the courage to trust them after the bitter experience with you.

I just need my answers


MODS: this is not a bashing post. I just need some answers from Joel. Hope this is not deleted

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Thanx to Shv18 for sharing so much of information on this thread,earlier i used to seldom check anything other than CBR 250r ownership thread but now i am kind off glued to this thread.Any way to cut the story short hot rodding has never stopped amazing me be it my RXZ of late nineties of my present day CBR,what surprised me most was the satisfaction i got after fitting a 28K akra slip-on on my CBR was nowhere near the satisfaction i got from my 2.5k expansion chamber on my rxz. To understand the difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke theoretically is a different thing but expecting similar end result was my mistake,however the insatiable appetite for more power was always there but not at the cost of reliability,as usual i again turned to a senior xbhpian for help, i keep troubling him all the time with my silly questions but he is always there to help me...
It was decided that a good head porting job will give a decent amount of increase in performance without compromising the reliability of the engine .Next thing was to find a reliable person who could carryout this job without damaging the cylinder head.One week of research and umpteen phone calls to my xbhpian friends , i was referred to Mr.Vikram of Motozone moreover his workshop was not very far from my place. I made it to his workshop a couple of weeks back to discuss with him regarding my bike,meanwhile i watched him working on a P220 with uttermost care ,after discussing with him the cost,duration of work etc ,it was decided the job would start on tuesday the 14th and would take 3 working days.
As promised the work started on tuesday,during the course of work as the slip-on was dismantled and it being the EC compliant version from Akrapovic the inlet hole to the muffler was less than half inch which was meticulously increased later to the dia size of the inner perforated pipe which in comparison is still smaller than the inlet hole of the full carbon fibre Akra slip-on of my xbhpian friend pruthviraj.
IN THE BELOW PIC 1.MY SLIP-ON AFTER 2.MY SLIP-ON BEFORE 3. PRUTHVIRAJ'S COMPLETE FREE FLOW CARBON FIBRE SLIP-ON








Next head porting and polishing was carried out,also throttle body and injector cleaning was carried out.
















After completing all the work the bike was test ridden for a whole day and the next day i was called for the delivery of the bike (also the steering cone set was replaced on request),now before taking test ride of the bike they wanted me to ride the bike without the DB-killer and stock air filter to check the performance very well knowing that i will never ride the bike without the DB-killer as am not a big fan of loud single cylinder bike,the moment i started the bike ,there was an angry growl emanating from the exhaust which was clearly indicating its intentions,engaged first gear and slowly released the clutch........the bike lunged forward with the front wheel desperate to hang in the mid-air,immediately shifted to second gear the bike was catapulting forward ,after that my reflexes were quickly upshifting the gears....rode the bike around 100 mtrs and turned back to the workshop,it was a mixed reaction of excitement, happiness and fear on my face...i immediately requested them to put back the DB-killer,now i was getting impatient to ride the bike back home before dusk and to understand the new found characteristics of the bike,.......i was at loss of words thanking motozone and bid them goodbye,... the 40km journey to my home started,now with the DB-killer installed, the bike was not as loud and i could accelerate hard without attracting much attention,earlier the bike would only come to its elements after 3500 rpm and would take some time to reach 120kmph but now the power seemed to be linear through the rev range and there seemed an urgency for the engine to hit the rev limiter, also there was a noticeable difference in low-end torque ,the engine was definitely running much much smoother.Earlier had used a K&N air filter for close to 4k km which was taken out and reverted to stock,contemplating to install a pipercross filter.
This is a short term review will come back and post a long term review with all the pros and cons after riding the bike for a few thousand kilometers.


Disclaimer:The experience and information shared here is solely mine and is in no way meant to represent or promote any tuning house for that matter.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Just saw Joel sir's reply and feel that the sugar-coating reply will make again fall in love with him. Such an honest and enthusiastic person

The fact is that whatever stuffs he is providing have no reliability and it's better he agrees it soon so that this bashing will come to an end.

Why don't you be honest Mr. Tailor Saab. If 10 people plug the kit and if 9 stays reliable till 40k kms then you can say it's reliable but in your case if 10 people plug in atleast 5 of them replug within 2k kms and you say it's reliability. You have learnt engineering and you talk about engines but the result (truth) can't be hidden.

Just be honest. Just say my kits can whack the stock siblings but I don't give you any guarantee on the reliability. And also if you think that your kits can only be successful when installed by you then why do you sell or allow your kits to be sold outside and claim mess-up by roadside mechanics.

The fact is when mechanics hear your word they won't even touch the bike because of your excellent reputation

@ Shv18 you need some more time and experience before branding the moto zone guys as genuine? If not geniuine atleast are they honest? That the prominent thing.