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**sibun** · 10-23-2013, 11:59 PM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by kochumvk View Post

Thanks. There are people, who talks like this in their language, When big people say like that, we just need to stop 'mewing'. After all I dont have helped so many to fix problems or even dont have a BTech in Mechanical. It will be much nicer to use a language all can understand, while posting in a public forum. Once a cop also asked me to talk in Hindi or a another language that I dont know how to speak.Some features are common across different demographics. Its ok.

.Thanks Divya for giving me the proper meaning, in a language I can understand.

Oh! i am extremely sorry if it hurt you. My intention was not that to hurt you or for that any one.It was just that i couldn't pour the feelings in my writing.I basically wanted to say that you are saying the same thing as me but both of our way of saying is different. Actually the proverb became wrong as it was not the right proverb. I wanted to say that i said the same thing that you said but we had a mis-understanding as our way of saying differs. And i didn't knew that you do not know Hindi. Even Hindi is not my mother tongue. My mother tongue is oriya.My intention of saying of my education and helping to others is not to show i know more than you or something. I just wanted to say that since i read so much about engines that is why i always discuss technicals and since people come for help to me so i have a tendency to give long explanation to them to make them understand in simple manner. Also my taking tuitions of my Juniors of automobile subject had made me the habit of explaining others. That is why i explained to you your question.Once again i am extremely sorry and i have no intention of hurting you or showing superiority. So please forgive me, and i always love these type of technical discussion. So if you want you can join me on such discussion in any thread.Once again a big sorry from me.

**abhi7013** · 10-24-2013, 12:28 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Now somebody. Anybody. Please enlighten. Is Honda's 250cc with hero??

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**Bibhu** · 10-24-2013, 12:31 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by sibun View Post

Oh! i am extremely sorry if it hurt you. My intention was not that to hurt you or for that any one.It was just that i couldn't pour the feelings in my writing.I basically wanted to say that you are saying the same thing as me but both of our way of saying is different. Actually the proverb became wrong as it was not the right proverb. I wanted to say that i said the same thing that you said but we had a mis-understanding as our way of saying differs. And i didn't knew that you do not know Hindi. Even Hindi is not my mother tongue. My mother tongue is oriya.My intention of saying of my education and helping to others is not to show i know more than you or something. I just wanted to say that since i read so much about engines that is why i always discuss technicals and since people come for help to me so i have a tendency to give long explanation to them to make them understand in simple manner. Also my taking tuitions of my Juniors of automobile subject had made me the habit of explaining others. That is why i explained to you your question.Once again i am extremely sorry and i have no intention of hurting you or showing superiority. So please forgive me, and i always love these type of technical discussion. So if you want you can join me on such discussion in any thread.Once again a big sorry from me.

Dont be sorry for wat you said... Its already out. But I wld say this much, a knowledgable person like u shd not be involved in pointless brand bashing. For god sakes these are business houses out to make profits. They are not doing us favors by launching bikes. Its a business. We are riders. We should be loyal to good bikes not brands..

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**sibun** · 10-24-2013, 12:37 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

Now somebody. Anybody. Please enlighten. Is Honda's 250cc with hero??

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This news i am not sure but as far as agreement during break-up was done Hero has access to four engines- 110 from activa, 110 from twister, 125 from stunner and 250 from Honda CBR. But i do not think they will launch the CBR engine as if it would have been then it would have been way back. Even if they launch the same engine then it will be re-worked to pump 3-5 bhp more and some more torque.

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Originally posted by Bibhu View Post

Dont be sorry for wat you said... Its already out. But I wld say this much, a knowledgable person like u shd not be involved in pointless brand bashing. For god sakes these are business houses out to make profits. They are not doing us favors by launching bikes. Its a business. We are riders. We should be loyal to good bikes not brands.. Sent from my GT-I9001 using xBhp Connect mobile app

But i have not done any brand bashing. Even i have not taken any brands name or said anything about the same.I was just talking about engine and technological aspects. I didn't said anything bad about any brands.

**abhi7013** · 10-24-2013, 01:28 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

I have a feeling that it would be the honda engine which would be modified to extract more power.

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**vrugonnab** · 10-24-2013, 06:54 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by riazmomin View Post

As you said, Hero was free to do anything that was out side the JV. But again, those products may not me Direct competition to Hero Honda JV or Honda's products. This is the point where many motorcycle enthusiasts and anti-hero were missing here. So what Hero did, they launched mopeds called Hero Puch and scooters like Winner, and Majestic. Some electric scooters too. These were not direct competition to Honda. And assuming that you were expecting a 250cc from Hero individually at that time, then you are wrong because there was no market for 250cc bikes at that time. Remember BMW Funduro? It is not just Hero, but even TVS and Bajaj were treated in similar way. You know that when Suzuki Fiero came there was not a single decal or mention of TVS on it?

So, Honda did setup HMSI and from here the differences arose which were brewing till the breakup. Starting with Unicorn & Activa. Ever Imagined why Hero never put up Monoshock? It is product differentiation between Hero's 150cc bikes and Honda's Unicorn. What Hero got in advantage is better tuned engines for more performance like Xtreme and Hunk.

Hero not bringing much to table? Hero was a cycle manufacturer and Honda was a giant in two-wheeler industry in world. Please understand that.

Well typing is easy if you understand what you are typing, but if the scope is limited and do not know about it completely, it just becomes funny or ridiculous.

Originally posted by Naveen1985 View Post

hero street was having the same honda 100cc engine...correct yourself properly before posting crap....

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

You don't get it do you. Few companies prefer to get a contract signed by you before joining rite. It says that you promise not to try to join other outside companies for the Said duration. 'outside' companies here is similar to hero's case like trying to launch r&d of their own or whatever crap it is that you expected them to do.
This thread is about the three engines. So can anyone confirm if Honda's 250cc is with hero?

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Originally posted by Naveen1985 View Post

what is your age...???

Originally posted by ravi@17bhp View Post

People sit at desk and believe business is run with understanding, instead of contract agreement. ROFL!

Originally posted by abhi7013 View Post

I have a feeling that it would be the honda engine which would be modified to extract more power.

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Thanks Sibun for sharing the interview link, now I can easily answer the contract experts patting each other's back here.

"

However, in 2008, when the issue of exporting the Indian JV’s products to other countries came up, Honda said that Hero Honda will have to compete on its own since it could not influence its subsidiaries abroad to import the JV’s products. Honda’s subsidiaries are run very independently and decide which countries they want to source their products from. This was a bitter pill to swallow for Hero Honda.
The second contentious issue was that of board representation. Of the four Honda representatives on the board, one executive director was the head of Honda in India, to whom HSMI reported, and the other located in Bangkok, represented Honda’s two-wheeler business in Asia. The other two were nominated by Honda. As directors on the board of Hero Honda all of them had access to its plans and strategies, while Hero Honda had access to none of Honda’s plans. This, Hero Honda had felt amounted to a conflict of interests.

In 2008, when the issue of exporting the Indian JV’s products to other countries came up, Honda said that Hero Honda will have to compete on its own since it could not influence its subsidiaries abroad to import the JV’s products

The third issue was related to Hero Honda wanting to do its own independent R&D and manufacturing its own products. When it asked Honda to be allowed to do so, subject to approval from the head office in Japan, Honda’s response was ‘R&D is like its heart and it can’t give its heart to anyone’."

Clearly Hero's CFO knows much better than any of the so-called neutral hero fan boys running riot here. Statement in bold clearly states that Honda didn't allow "Hero Honda JV" to have it's own R&D, they are not talking about Hero here. So, it's clear that contract didn't prevent Hero from starting their own operation. In any case, it was Honda which needed Hero's permission to start their own operation due to press note 1 from govt. of India. This statement also backs up my earlier statement that "Hero was happy to play dumb partner part with the money flowing in. Till 2008, i.e. when Honda said no to couple of their requests and got prepared to launch a 100cc motorcycle, it didn't occur to Hero to have an independent operation, nor to have their own R&D under Hero's brand (which Honda couldn't have stopped in any case). From the above excerpt it also looks like Honda was generous enough to allow exports, but only existing units of Honda in those countries will not be forced to import from Hero Honda JV. Like I said, with the money flowing in, Hero was too happy to play the dumb partner of the JV.

Another excerpt here

"As I said, in 1984 who would have thought that the business that started with equity of Rs 16 crore, of which Honda contributed only Rs 4 crore, will become the world’s largest two-wheeler company? Similarly, who could have imagined that the export market will have opened up in 30 years, the way it has? Every partner in the JV has some objectives, which determine the terms of the agreement. However, not everyone parts as amicably as Hero Group and Honda did."

Again, it shows how Hero was at that time, they had absolutely no idea, like a kid falling for the candy they were too happy to dance to Honda's tune. But, Honda on the other hand with lots of expertise in two wheelers, clearly knew why they are putting up each and every clause in the contract.

The point here is Hero's fan boys are ready blame everything on Honda, as if Hero is the victim and Honda like a bad boss didn't allow them to do anything. Honda was only protecting it's own interests, they are not in charity, but in business. And clearly, there was no contract stopping Hero from starting it's own operation. It is Hero which thought 70% of the profit is enough, why should I go separate and take trouble for the extra 30%. Until Honda thought enough charity, now I want the cake, Hero didn't realize that could happen!

So, all the so-called experts on contracts and age old guys with lots of common sense can read the interview here and then try to post some intelligent replies http://www.cfo-connect.com/title_det...1055&cat_id=10

Let me drop a note on engines too, I don't have any high hopes on the new engines. After all Bajaj with backing of Kawasaki & TVS with backing of Suzuki couldn't produce a good engine to take on Honda. If Hero thinks they can do it with the help of AVL, god help them. I wish best of luck to Hero, clearly they are up against the huge task of defending reputation built on Honda's tech. With EBR too, they are on a slippery wicket, EBR is neither a house hold name in north america, nor is it in the leagues of other Japanese/European brands. Just hope that Hero wouldn't commit blunders in their hurry to meet the deadline of 2014 for new engines.

But I have to say, Hero's PR machinery is doing their job properly, for example http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/hero-...ebuts-in-2014/. One should appreciate them for trying to keep the brand in news and trying to knock it into the psyche of bike enthusiasts.

**Divya Sharan** · 10-24-2013, 07:45 AM

Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by vrugonnab View Post

I have to say, Hero's PR machinery is doing their job properly, for example [/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.motorbeam.com/bikes/hero-...ebuts-in-2014/. One should appreciate them for trying to keep the brand in news and trying to knock it into the psyche of bike enthusiasts.

The article states that the 250 cc bike is built from ground up without the big H's help, but states that HMC can use Honda's tech till 2017. Its confusing. Any ideas?

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**rreneav1987** · 10-24-2013, 08:09 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by Divya Sharan View Post

The article states that the 250 cc bike is built from ground up without the big H's help, but states that HMC can use Honda's tech till 2017. Its confusing. Any ideas?

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They probably mean to say that though they have access to cbr engine, they have built their own engine.. which probably means they havent used the hondas 250cc engine.. this is just my assumption.. haters pls dont start a war for this too..

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**Boom S** · 10-24-2013, 10:53 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

[MENTION=24715]vrugonnab[/MENTION], people here are not interested in facts. there is zero evidence of honda preventing hero from doing R&D (it simply cannot !) yet we have post after post saying the same thing.
then someone said ZMA/ZMR is a tourer. is it so really ? or is it simply a case of hero fanboys making a virtue out of a necessity.
hero certainly doesn't think so. that's why hero is tomtoming its 'raaaw power' and 'above all'.

emotions rule this thread right now. it's 'you are either with us or against us'

**rreneav1987** · 10-24-2013, 11:17 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

MY God.. All the Hero guys.. Please give up.. these guys are the winners.. the hero bike owners and the people who speak for Hero are losers (including me)
[MENTION=24129]Boom S[/MENTION].. So you mean to say that the P200NS is a Sports Bike?? LoL just because it has the Tag Naked Sports to it?? and do you mean to say P375 is a Super Sports bike?? just because Bajaj Claims it to be?? Grow up dude..

if you feel the above statement Naked Sports and Super Sports is true.. then Define what is a sports bike?? what comes under sports bike category..

P375 is a freaking exact ditto copy of that electric bike which we have seen on the internet..

Yes.. The ZMR/ZMA are a tourer and its not our fault you don't understand what a tourer is and what a sports bike is.. and WTF is wrong with you people.. talking all crap in a News section.. this is suppose to be a thread related to the 3 new Engines that Hero has built..

so take this challenge if you can.. build yourself a 10cc running motor. Please and then talk about a company who is doing so much for an RnD..

for the so called losers (including me) its better to keep our mouth shut than talk to the so called winners..

and for Gods sake.. you guys are no one to talk about the RnD of a company and what they have built unless and until you guys have tried it and if the machine has disappointed you.. try to start a partnership business and you will know what Hero was facing till the breakup..

**Divya Sharan** · 10-24-2013, 11:25 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by Boom S View Post

then someone said ZMA/ZMR is a tourer. is it so really ? or is it simply a case of hero fanboys making a virtue out of a necessity.

Well I haven't replied to any of your posts earlier because I don't want to make any tall claims and wait for the actual product. Until this post from you!
Which bike do you think is marketed as a tourer in India? Discover ST? Avenger? Come on! They don't even have proper seats or the power. Leave Discover aside, it simply doesn't count, but the Avy struggles as soon as you hit 95 kmph.
Was CBR 250R marketed for touring purposes? Open your eyes wide sir, this is India. people want to get max by paying min.

My sincere advice to you. If you want a tourer exclusively, get a VFR or a Ninja 650 or a Bandit. If you want high revving machines, get a 600cc inline 4.

But ZMX series does perform well in city and highways both giving decent mileage figures whilst doing 100 kmph all day without strain and without blowing up the engine or its components. Hence, instead of farting loose crap over this thread, spare some sanity!

**payeng** · 10-24-2013, 11:35 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Reality Check:

Q: Where does your bike spend it time MOST (say 80% of time)?
Ans: On the road, highway commuting to college/work, going for shopping etc.

Conclusion: In that case it is a commuter. Regardless if its an R15, Karizma, Pulsar 200/200NS, Avenger, Royal Enfield, CBR 150/250, 200/390 Duke... Whatever. Which means that our "so called" desi bikes for enthusiasts are nothing but "glorified commuters".

**Ajay.vinod** · 10-24-2013, 11:36 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Brand wars again n again
If this continues some MOD is gonna close this thread

@topic- When is the next auto expo? january or feb?

**rreneav1987** · 10-24-2013, 11:47 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by Ajay.vinod View Post

Brand wars again n again
If this continues some MOD is gonna close this thread

@topic- When is the next auto expo? january or feb?

Feb 2014 bro

Sent from my Spice Mi-530 using Tapatalk 4

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Originally posted by payeng View Post

Reality Check:

Q: Where does your bike spend it time MOST (say 80% of time)?
Ans: On the road, highway commuting to college/work, going for shopping etc.

Conclusion: In that case it is a commuter. Regardless if its an R15, Karizma, Pulsar 200/200NS, Avenger, Royal Enfield, CBR 150/250, 200/390 Duke... Whatever. Which means that our "so called" desi bikes for enthusiasts are nothing but "glorified commuters".

55% of the mileage done on my bike was on tours.. so I am more on the touring side

Problem?

No Offense

**payeng** · 10-24-2013, 11:49 AM

Re: Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

Originally posted by rreneav1987 View Post

55% of the mileage done on my bike was on tours.. so I am more on the touring side

Problem?

No Offense

Congrats.

You qualify to be one of those rare a non commuter on a commuter bike.

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Hero Moto's 3 New Engines: xBhp News

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