re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

LONG POST ALERT.

CBR 650F is a detuned version of a detuned version of a CBR 600RR. It went from 128 bhp to 100 bhp to 87 bhp. Little steps you might say?
Well, 128 bhp is approx. 45% more than 87 bhp.

So, for a second, I perfectly understand the high price of CBR 650F, given the source engine and its league. I know 650F could be lesser priced in some markets, but cost is cost. And R&D is R&D.
But was it wise detuning it to 87 bhp just to make it road friendly, in the first place?

Will Indian riders grow up, getting detuned versions that are more comfortable, torquey, and mileage/ fuel oriented all the time?
Will we mature this way, getting spoon fed, with custom fit bikes that turn out less fun than the original?

My point is, if its that expensive making a CBR 650F in India, why not go ahead and just give us a CBR600RR for Rs. 9-11 Lacs itself?

CBR600RR can have an Indian equivalent with mild tuning, lower compression, etc, and it should be a bigger hit even with 110-115 bhp or so, just because this category is power conscious and rev happy, speaking for the majority that is.


We're not kids. You can consider my humble example, although its not an equivalent. I have a Duke 390. It heats my thighs, maybe due to its high compression head. It has weak low end torque, and I'm often seen shifting cogs. So, don't I enjoy riding it? Well, when the tyres were new, I experienced the 44 bhp thrust daily on the way to college. And...

""I declare that the 44 bhp thrust, was worth every compromise made to other factors like mileage, low end torque, usability, etc, etc..""
(feel free to put that in your signature, although its not worth it)


If you're making an effort, why not just go the distance and make it RR itself, instead of letting it remain some long-stroked wannabe of a legend?
Atleast then they'll have a strong selling point, that people would actually accept.
Not to mention the existing CBR 600RR owners who would bless Honda, as a source for original parts for their steed.

But alas, Honda just wants a good looking, powerful ""enough"", frugal, comfortable, commute-tourer which can accept sub-90 octane fuel, right? This country has been called youngistaan by companies itself, but Honda.... Honda is busy making us a Buzurg-isthan with each passing release. The last exciting thing from HMSI was what, a CBR150R?
Because, would you call a Goldwing or an Activa youthful enough?

CBR600RR will always remain a legend. CBR650F must be a good motorcycle too, no offence. A little bland maybe.

Feel free to quote and disagree with my post, but even you know that if it had a price tag of around 6~ Lacs, I wouldn't have mentioned 600RR at all....

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

Ya, Just like CBR250R is selling like hotcakes...
These will have very limited sales and eventually die.
Honda Should understand it right now- Either price it correctly, or get ready to be thrashed.
What I hated most is the use of "Made in India" Tag to 5% localization. Had they launched it sans it, it would have escaped the wrath....

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

I am sorry, I dont come close to your knowledge levels but here is what I have gathered on this bike in the last 1 year.
Its an all new motorcycle for a different segment, I think. Yes it uses 600RR engine block, but power delivery is different and the focus has been more on the mid range delivery for this one. The reason they have retricted it to 87 BHP is because of they want to target A2 license requirements. They cannot tone down more than 50% of the power of the bike to make it restrict to A2. If my understanding is correct A2 restricts bike to 45 BHP, so basically they could not power this one above 90BHP. Not to forget the slightly better ergonomics. B

ut I agree with you on the pricing. In US, this bike is around 1500$ more (with ABS) than Ninja 650. That makes it around 90K INR extra. I am ready to accept 30K more profit. That brings the cost of this bike to around 6.2-6.5 Ex showroom considering Ninja 650 is around 5 Lakhs ex showroom. Any higher would make me believe that Honda too is trying to milk us which would dissapoint me. I will not pay more than 7-7.5 onroad for this bike and then in that case would look for Z800.

Regards
Rachit.

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

I would like to put in my 2 cents.



I consider myself lucky to have experienced the CBR600RR- the Race Replica. Let us first analyse why a certain motorcycle is introduced in a market.
There is a sport in western countries wherein specially developed motorcycles are raced against each other. To find out who completes given number of laps in least amount of time,around a race track. This tests the mettle of the machines. One of the reason racing was invented because manufacturers could benefit from the results. They could make better machines.
When MotoGP went full 1000cc, racing caught up like wildfire. We in India were still riding CBZs and Pulsar 150s. And then started the trend of Race Replicas. Honda made RRs, Yamaha,Suzuki and Kawa followed. Before that there were the softer F models. The RRs turned the markets overnight! Everyone wanted a RR! Supersports are extreme machines. Super high rev limits, powerbands. With hard ergonomics, immense heat generating engines. And made to run on tracks. Give you the feel of a racer on roads. Imagine riding the BSA Mach bicycle everytime.

We live in India. Where racing bikes is not a recognized sport. Our manufacturers do not stand to gain anything by racing. Since they cannot produce such bikes. And there will not be enough sales of such bikes. And how do you convince commuters to ride a bike with huge power, clipons and twin spar frames? Honda knows a thing or two about making bikes. They know that the RRs will be a waste in India. I have experienced this first hand. Unless we have proper racetracks in major cities, we can't really enjoy a supersport bike. And hence the value of the bike stands diminished. So why bring it in first place? If we want a sportier riding machine, we should rather ride a F [faired] model.With comfortable posture. Which will generate enough power to not scare the beginner and kill himself. But keep the enthusiast involved. Looks of a sportsbike. And decent fuel economy. Think of this as gradual upgrade. And which makes me think that the CBR650F suits the role perfectly. It will perfectly blend in the Indian riding condition. Pricing is the thing which will make it accessible to fewer people so that Honda has lesser first-timer hassles to handle. They are playing safe. And I think this bike will be a good product in the history of biking in India. And from my experience, saving for your dream machine is a sweet pain we all enjoy!

Ride safe!

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

are you talking about the Kawasaki Z800 or the Kawasaki Ninja 650?

the Z800 a naked/un-faired i4 that sells for approximately 8 lac. but windblast is a nuisance after about 160/180 kmph.
the rider saddle is tiny and the seat is not very comfortable for long rides.

the Ninja 650 is a twin that sells for far less yes... but it's also got a LOT less to offer compared to the CBR 650F.

the Hastur... if/when it goes into production will be competition for the Ninja 650 (both twins) not for the CBR 650F.

we can't assume a buyer's decision is only based on the cost of which bike is cheapest or has the most value for money.


we already have a whole bunch of people grumbling about the 650F being 150cc less than but costing as much as a Z800.

what makes you think that they'd think a 9 lac to 11 lac pricing for a 600RR makes more sense?

besides... a 600RR is useless on most indian roads. a 650F (even though it came with 45% less power) would be more practical.

Having ridden the 600RR and the "blander" 600F4i... I'd pick the F4i any day... simply for it's perfect mix of comfort and practicality.

85+ bhp is a LOT for a road bike. sure 200bhp would be great but it's not really useful.

you have to rev a 600RR REALLY hard for it to feel like fun. and that can get frustrating in real world situati


I'd rather have 87bhp of useable power than 128bhp of not all useable power.

Discover 150 vs Pulsar 150. Same CC. Big difference in the final product. But there's still place for both in the Indian market.

It's the same for the 600RR vs the 650F. There's still place for both in the Indian market.


Superman & Clark Kent are both legends. Would you go to work dressed as Superman everyday?

Or as "little bland" Clark Kent?


The CBR 650F sells for 6.7lac in the US. So it's not really realistic to expect a pricetag of anything less than 7.5/8lac for the 650F in India.

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

@rachitkdogra Ok got it. For a moment, I just forgot the A2 rules. It again reminds us how dependent we are to the European Community... Thanks.
However, would you call it an all new engine? Well, I wouldn't debate it, as we all know the facts, but its debatable for sure...

@nitrosatya I'm surprised. You would be the last person I expected to advocate a Softer "Road machine" in place of a Race replica, specially when its a .6 Litre category, and the prices are nearing a million anyways. No offence though.
You're right about the 650F being more friendly & practical than 600RR in most matters. 650F is fitting the role for right now, but I still think we've seen enough of gradual upgrades to get the practical real deal now.


But, the same thing that you say, has been said when R1 was launched in 2007. But we both now know the superbike concept is here to stay, even if most can't afford it.

In your post, you talk the right thing logically. Its good, but the market is a funny place. And, the buyer can be illogical, emotional, irrational, etc. Even today in India, CBR600RR has a bigger fan following. And since when we're nearing a million rupees price, a RR will sell better, in my humble opinion.
We have owners with CBR1000RR's and 600's too, already. They love it, because its the irrational heart taking over their minds.


We should be thankful that a modern roadgoing racing capable machine can last 1 Lac kms without engine rebuilds. Its much more convenient owning a race replica now, than it was in the 80s or 90s. Better roads, larger distances even within cities, better fuel, better service and better maintainable average speeds.
And to be honest, RR will be better at international support in getting the aftermarket stuff, and will claim better prices second hand any day.

And if you dream of going racing, like me, you know that in the future you can atleast find an opportunity to practice at BIC/ MMSC & know where you stand. Of course, I'm old at 29 years, but others, not necessarily are that old. With a 87 bhp bike, your scores & timings will obviously not be comparable to supersport 600s' figures.


No rider can use all the power most of the time anyways. So, even if all the bhp is not usable, no big deal. Wait for the right moment, till then putter around in lower gears. Compromises have to be made when you get a RR. But they sell anyways.

All this said, I agree that CBR650F will be a good product in the history. If you note, functionally, I don't raise a finger to it. As a kid from the movie Wild Hogs exclaims, "Money is the problem!". Even I was considering buying this, honestly speaking.
On a side note, if we're not too obsessed with inline4's, we can still choose Ninja 650 and GT650, right?

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

Some good posts recently... I have a wild thought... Perhaps Honda will kill more than two birds with the one arrow called CBR650F... If priced right, they'll hurt Ninja 650 enough...they'll hurt Z800 enough... and yes, they'll even hurt Daytona more or less... in sales... a sort of result they'll probably not get with the full-fledged RR... it's just a wild guess on Honda's strategy...

Perhaps one day we'll also see CBR600RR.. and a Yamaha R6...and a ZX6R...

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

Perfect example!

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

My friend has also been waiting for the CBR 500R. There are yet no announced plans by Honda on its launch in India.
Only the CBR650F will be launched in India.

Although the 500R is also a very good product for our market.

Regards
Rachit

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

I had the opportunity to get a feel of the Honda at the MCN motorcycle show, London, last week. The bike looks big and well built and looks really good. Comes with ABS as standard. I just wish it came with USDs instead of the telescopic forks.Would have been the perfect package. The riding position was almost like the baby ceeber's, and I am sure would be comfortable for long haul rides.This was being offered for some 7000 GBP there.
The Ninja 650 appears so plain jane in front of the CBR that someone would opt for the Ninja over the CBR for monetary reasons. It's sort of like how the Ninja 250 and the CBR 250 stacked up against each other, only with inverted roles I'll post some pics soon

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

There goes my dream of owning an I-4 ...just like that...poooffff...

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

Here are some pics. till any one lays a hand on it..enjoy

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

How diff is the Box-type swing arm on Z800 to the Aluminium casted swing arm on 650F...is it for sporty looks or does it really perform. My perception was box type swing is for high speed stability...correct me if I am wrong here

re: Honda CBR 650F launch on 4th August. Bookings Open!

The z800 swingarm is made of steel to start with were as CBR is aluminum so definitely less bulky and reduces weight

Z800 needs to shed weight a lot,almost 40kgs heavier than street triple