My R1 Thread :D

[SandycoreBiker]

@Rossiter: Though I was silent reader throughout the discussion, secretly i was really worried in shouldn't tun out to be a big problem since it was pertaining to an engine!!

Anyways really happy to hear that "Right problem" is been diagnosed and will be cleared soon. I wonder how you must have gone through each and every process & Checks. Hats off to you dude!!
In the process we have also gained lot of Engines knowledge (though this is not right way) and wish your One get on on its tires soon!!
Take care!!

P.S: Have to be careful during refueling now!!

[rossiter]

Incidentally, we have also started having issues with our One's. Sunny's R1 had that mysterious coolant leak again...a few spoonfuls dripping down without rhyme or reason. And my One is also acting up. Whenever I stop to refuel after say a couple of hundred kms, after filling up the bike refuses to idle for a while. It even needs a slightly longer burst of the starter button to start. Its almost reminiscent of the 'vapor-lock' thing. A hot bike stops for a while, the engine is switched off so fans shut down and the engine radiates heat strongly. The fuel feed pipes heat up and the fuel inside turns to gas obstructing further flow. Though why this would happen in a positive pressure fuel injected environment is what I fail to fathom. Another mystery.

The bike just refuses to idle though it runs through the full rpm range without a hiccup. Was that how it started with you? Revving up the engine through the gears or even with the clutch pulled in makes no difference. It just starts to idle after a couple of kilometers, at times more. My One also crossed the 10000 km mark yesterday. Keeping fingers crossed for the duration of this ride though. This country seriously lacks sbk maintenance infrastructure and with one bike already inside the van, I guess I'd need a strong rope and a willing R15 to pull me along if it shuts down for good.

I haven't noticed any such phenomenon in my bike. Was the coolant replaced anytime before you guys left? Strange occurrence.

As for the irregular idling, it does happen very randomly, but by the time I begin to think about it, the problem goes away. I guess this is due to fuel quality variance between different pumps, even if it is still pure petrol.

We can confirm this by measuring the fuel pump pressure as soon as it occurs, as well as the pressure in the fuel rail. Always useful data to have. Let me see if I can try this

SBKs, especially CBUs rarely need any attention IMO. I always think of them as bullet proof, and as long as we have the basic diagnostic skills, we should be fine even if a problem comes up. GIR team is lucky to have you onboard

[Old Fox]

Great to know you've zeroed in on cly #3. Though this entails consequences that are necessarily painful for the technically minded...opening up the innards of a good machine is always painful.

The compression leak should be a valve as we'd speculated. And my guess, in congruence with yours, is an inlet valve. Could be any of two reasons: 1. sticky valve or some deposit on valve seat feather edge that is not allowing it to seat properly. Thats deposits from adulterated fuel. 2. could be localized overheating due to blowby that damaged/warped/chipped the feather edge. The latter, if true, could more be a consequence of the former.

In a nutshell, we just might miss seeing your One in action if the Yamaha guys get delayed for some reason.

The 'idling' issue with my One has a pattern. Whenever I ride into a fuel bunk, shut the engine, fill the tank and then start it, the idling problem occurs. If I stop for say some 10 minutes and then start the engine, it idles fine. Its the 'heat-soak' thing I guess. A short shut-down (for re-fueling in my case) after sustained highway speeds means the engine is suddenly robbed off its cooling mechanism. The heat soaks into everything around it, possibly affecting fuel supply till I am back on the road and the airflow carries away the trapped heat. Strange indeed are the ways of the One. But then I guess so much power (and so heat/vibration) packaged in so tight a space will definitely have a character of its own and not all of it will be predictable.

Looking forward to your work on the One. And yes, the diagnosis took so long not just because you lacked time or the Yamaha people had no answers. It took long because 'you' had to find those answers yourself. An engineer's systematic mind is not satisfied with 'just' a solved problem. He needs to know the 'why's' and how's in their entirety. Post this 'valve train' solution, we will have one engineer who will be at peace with himself.

[Ducati695]

@OF: You guys should try a CBU Italian Ducati for character sans the quirks

I wonder how a desmodromic valve train would respond to such bad fuel situations; a curious thought, that I hope does not get answered by my desmo valve train

[psycho 98]

Any updates akhil ! so finally the BW guyz saw how a compression meter looks and how it works

I was worried about the thread pattern most, out of three patterns which one fitted in.

[svjhonda]

Really feels good to know the problem is identified.

Like someone wise said, we always fear the unknown. And all it takes to know the 'unknown' its to take it by the horns! Gosh, Yamaha might be considering taking OF and Rossiter in as pro engineers!

@ Ducati 695- really worried about the point you made! Where do you service your bike? If (god forbid) something similar happens, will they be able to identify the problem?

This is sooo interesting. Man, wish I had a few superbiker friends here.....

[Ducati695]

@ Ducati 695- really worried about the point you made! Where do you service your bike? If (god forbid) something similar happens, will they be able to identify the problem?

The way the desmo valve train works the valves cannot get stuck due to bad oil or bad fuel, the valves are lowered and raised by cams, there are no valve return springs. Using the "never say never" principle, if it a valve on a Ducati was to get stuck it could probably hole the piston . I searched the web for Ducati's getting the valves stuck. Could not find any claims that they had.

I service the bike myself, I got have the work shop service manual CD that I purchased when I got the bike, got oil filters, air filters, brake pads, tires etc. And I can always get more parts when i travel to US.

[svjhonda]

Cool man! How I wish.....

But hey, even I service my 1/10th of a superbike at home (read the R15!)!

[rossiter]

Great to know you've zeroed in on cly #3. Though this entails consequences that are necessarily painful for the technically minded...opening up the innards of a good machine is always painful.

The compression leak should be a valve as we'd speculated. And my guess, in congruence with yours, is an inlet valve. Could be any of two reasons: 1. sticky valve or some deposit on valve seat feather edge that is not allowing it to seat properly. Thats deposits from adulterated fuel. 2. could be localized overheating due to blowby that damaged/warped/chipped the feather edge. The latter, if true, could more be a consequence of the former.

In a nutshell, we just might miss seeing your One in action if the Yamaha guys get delayed for some reason.

The 'idling' issue with my One has a pattern. Whenever I ride into a fuel bunk, shut the engine, fill the tank and then start it, the idling problem occurs. If I stop for say some 10 minutes and then start the engine, it idles fine. Its the 'heat-soak' thing I guess. A short shut-down (for re-fueling in my case) after sustained highway speeds means the engine is suddenly robbed off its cooling mechanism. The heat soaks into everything around it, possibly affecting fuel supply till I am back on the road and the airflow carries away the trapped heat. Strange indeed are the ways of the One. But then I guess so much power (and so heat/vibration) packaged in so tight a space will definitely have a character of its own and not all of it will be predictable.

Looking forward to your work on the One. And yes, the diagnosis took so long not just because you lacked time or the Yamaha people had no answers. It took long because 'you' had to find those answers yourself. An engineer's systematic mind is not satisfied with 'just' a solved problem. He needs to know the 'why's' and how's in their entirety. Post this 'valve train' solution, we will have one engineer who will be at peace with himself.

OF, thanks for the encouraging words. But all said and done, this would not have been possible without your inputs

I've no idea about the issue happening with the post idling refuelling. But I am not so sure that the heat is the cause because R1s work in even more extreme conditions than what we have here without any such issues.

Probably when you ride into Bangalore, we can have a look at the fuel pump and check the pressures and lines for any problems. I think we can start with that.

And a fresh diagnosis begins

Any updates akhil ! so finally the BW guyz saw how a compression meter looks and how it works

I was worried about the thread pattern most, out of three patterns which one fitted in.

The smallest one fitted perfectly. It's an M10 thread I guess. The gauge worked like a charm. THanks man

Really feels good to know the problem is identified.

Like someone wise said, we always fear the unknown. And all it takes to know the 'unknown' its to take it by the horns! Gosh, Yamaha might be considering taking OF and Rossiter in as pro engineers!

This is sooo interesting. Man, wish I had a few superbiker friends here.....

Thanks svjhonda, but it wasn't an international mystery that was solved here But wouldn't have happened without OF's inputs.

The way the desmo valve train works the valves cannot get stuck due to bad oil or bad fuel, the valves are lowered and raised by cams, there are no valve return springs. Using the "never say never" principle, if it a valve on a Ducati was to get stuck it could probably hole the piston . I searched the web for Ducati's getting the valves stuck. Could not find any claims that they had.

I service the bike myself, I got have the work shop service manual CD that I purchased when I got the bike, got oil filters, air filters, brake pads, tires etc. And I can always get more parts when i travel to US.

That is an inherent advantage, but comes with it's own well publicised set of problems. But nothing that can't be solved with a few aftermarket mechanical gadgetry.

[Old Fox]

OF, thanks for the encouraging words. But all said and done, this would not have been possible without your inputs

I've no idea about the issue happening with the post idling refuelling. But I am not so sure that the heat is the cause because R1s work in even more extreme conditions than what we have here without any such issues.

Probably when you ride into Bangalore, we can have a look at the fuel pump and check the pressures and lines for any problems. I think we can start with that.

And a fresh diagnosis begins

The enlightenment has been mutual.

As for the post-refuelling idling thing, even I have doubts about the 'heat' theory. Will be looking forward to our collective brain-storming when we meet.

Liked the 'fresh diagnosis' part. Incurable addicts...aren't we??

[svjhonda]

Thanks svjhonda, but it wasn't an international mystery that was solved here But wouldn't have happened without OF's inputs.

Maybe not for you, but surely mystery enough for me!

And did you take any onboard videos while you were at chennai's racetrack? Or maybe a few cornering pictures?

[rossiter]

Maybe not for you, but surely mystery enough for me!

And did you take any onboard videos while you were at chennai's racetrack? Or maybe a few cornering pictures?

Nope.. nothing post-worthy on a forum man. Will post some as and when I hit the track next.

[Aparajith]

Nope.. nothing post-worthy on a forum man. Will post some as and when I hit the track next.

U sure??

Make sure u post some proper pics the next time around!!!

[rossiter]

U sure??

Make sure u post some proper pics the next time around!!!

Dey Apar.. you're forgetting I can hand out infractions now..

[strider]

Great to hear that the problem has been diagonised....being a silent observer of the posts, the discussions between you and OF have helped me understand the tech details of the "One" far better.....
and the most important being the assistance Yamaha have provided.....This is where the legal R1 makes such a difference...
Kudos to Yamaha and the team at BW....cheers to your patience Akhil......