Engine Oils

[#bpk]

Re: Engine Oils

The myth about flushing agents is they remain in new oil . but as the flushing liquid has much more lesser vaporising point it gets evaporated when engine gets hot at first time only after oil change .
clutch cover removing & cleaning is time consuming & never recommend for higher capacity , complicated engines {like r15 , ns200 etc } ,so better use a engine flush .

Modern engines have external oil filter which makes the diy job easy. Honda doesn't provide external oil filter for hornet also, it's such a pain .

[#bpk]

Re: Engine Oils

Like the Uni my Splendor+ also has a oil-strainer & centrifugal filter . It requires the right crankcase cover and then another screwed-down rotor cover to be removed for access , which is very simple . No engine opening req . I have already done it twice , second time all by myself . First time it was done during paid service and Hero service charged me the normal service charge of Rs 180 only ( plus oil price and Rs 25 for the gasket ) , no extra costs . In my bike's owner's manual this procedure is recommended at first service ( 500-750 kms ) , third service ( 5000-5500 kms ) , 6th service ( 11000-11500 kms ) , and then every 6000 kms for life . Nowhere in the book any mention of flushing or such thing in the faintest . So there is no question for me as to what to do to keep my bike's engine clean and healthy - check the owner's manual . Infact I have been quite lazy & late , going to clean my bike's strainer / rotor-filter again this December during oil change . Those bikes that have replaceable filter , it's even easier to replace at every oil change . Nothing else necessary .

Problems I think may happen with trying to flush out bike engine is

i) you can never drain all the oil out of a motorcycle engine with normal draining procedure . It is designed in that way so that even after the bike has not been started for considerable days and oil has drained back into the sump , the bearings shall still have some oil trapped around it for the first start and not run dry ever . So after using the flushing solvent and draining it some of the stuff is going to remain inside the engine and then contaminate the new fresh oil you use - which is really bad .

ii) running the engine even for 30 seconds in oil diluted by the flushing solvent is going to damage bearing surfaces inside the engine , and cause rough running thereafter for ever .

iii) many areas inside the engine is designed to trap dirt ( like the rotor filter for example ) . On using any solvent it may loosen up those dirt and move it around to block up any one or more of the fine oil passage channels inside the engine . Blocked oil circulation = certain engine damage .

Please post diy on oil strainer cleaning of super splendor. I have completed 27k and not cleaned it till now. Please, help me.

[vvk1999]

Re: Engine Oils

Like the Uni my Splendor+ also has a oil-strainer & centrifugal filter . It requires the right crankcase cover and then another screwed-down rotor cover to be removed for access , which is very simple . No engine opening req . I have already done it twice , second time all by myself . First time it was done during paid service and Hero service charged me the normal service charge of Rs 180 only ( plus oil price and Rs 25 for the gasket ) , no extra costs . In my bike's owner's manual this procedure is recommended at first service ( 500-750 kms ) , third service ( 5000-5500 kms ) , 6th service ( 11000-11500 kms ) , and then every 6000 kms for life . Nowhere in the book any mention of flushing or such thing in the faintest . So there is no question for me as to what to do to keep my bike's engine clean and healthy - check the owner's manual . Infact I have been quite lazy & late , going to clean my bike's strainer / rotor-filter again this December during oil change . Those bikes that have replaceable filter , it's even easier to replace at every oil change . Nothing else necessary .

Problems I think may happen with trying to flush out bike engine is

i) you can never drain all the oil out of a motorcycle engine with normal draining procedure . It is designed in that way so that even after the bike has not been started for considerable days and oil has drained back into the sump , the bearings shall still have some oil trapped around it for the first start and not run dry ever . So after using the flushing solvent and draining it some of the stuff is going to remain inside the engine and then contaminate the new fresh oil you use - which is really bad .

ii) running the engine even for 30 seconds in oil diluted by the flushing solvent is going to damage bearing surfaces inside the engine , and cause rough running thereafter for ever .

iii) many areas inside the engine is designed to trap dirt ( like the rotor filter for example ) . On using any solvent it may loosen up those dirt and move it around to block up any one or more of the fine oil passage channels inside the engine . Blocked oil circulation = certain engine damage .

The myth about flushing agents is they remain in new oil . but as the flushing liquid has much more lesser vaporising point it gets evaporated when engine gets hot at first time only after oil change .
clutch cover removing & cleaning is time consuming & never recommend for higher capacity , complicated engines {like r15 , ns200 etc } ,so better use a engine flush .

[leech]

Re: Engine Oils

Like the Uni my Splendor+ also has a oil-strainer & centrifugal filter . It requires the right crankcase cover and then another screwed-down rotor cover to be removed for access , which is very simple . No engine opening req . I have already done it twice , second time all by myself . First time it was done during paid service and Hero service charged me the normal service charge of Rs 180 only ( plus oil price and Rs 25 for the gasket ) , no extra costs . In my bike's owner's manual this procedure is recommended at first service ( 500-750 kms ) , third service ( 5000-5500 kms ) , 6th service ( 11000-11500 kms ) , and then every 6000 kms for life . Nowhere in the book any mention of flushing or such thing in the faintest . So there is no question for me as to what to do to keep my bike's engine clean and healthy - check the owner's manual . Infact I have been quite lazy & late , going to clean my bike's strainer / rotor-filter again this December during oil change . Those bikes that have replaceable filter , it's even easier to replace at every oil change . Nothing else necessary .

Problems I think may happen with trying to flush out bike engine is

i) you can never drain all the oil out of a motorcycle engine with normal draining procedure . It is designed in that way so that even after the bike has not been started for considerable days and oil has drained back into the sump , the bearings shall still have some oil trapped around it for the first start and not run dry ever . So after using the flushing solvent and draining it some of the stuff is going to remain inside the engine and then contaminate the new fresh oil you use - which is really bad .

ii) running the engine even for 30 seconds in oil diluted by the flushing solvent is going to damage bearing surfaces inside the engine , and cause rough running thereafter for ever .

iii) many areas inside the engine is designed to trap dirt ( like the rotor filter for example ) . On using any solvent it may loosen up those dirt and move it around to block up any one or more of the fine oil passage channels inside the engine . Blocked oil circulation = certain engine damage .

What about using Shell Rimula R4 HDEO as a flush, run it for 250 Kms and repeat?

[Pinaki]

Re: Engine Oils

.. by only removing the right engine cover which is not feasible unless done yourself. Mechs charge a bomb for engine opening. ..

Like the Uni my Splendor+ also has a oil-strainer & centrifugal filter . It requires the right crankcase cover and then another screwed-down rotor cover to be removed for access , which is very simple . No engine opening req . I have already done it twice , second time all by myself . First time it was done during paid service and Hero service charged me the normal service charge of Rs 180 only ( plus oil price and Rs 25 for the gasket ) , no extra costs . In my bike's owner's manual this procedure is recommended at first service ( 500-750 kms ) , third service ( 5000-5500 kms ) , 6th service ( 11000-11500 kms ) , and then every 6000 kms for life . Nowhere in the book any mention of flushing or such thing in the faintest . So there is no question for me as to what to do to keep my bike's engine clean and healthy - check the owner's manual . Infact I have been quite lazy & late , going to clean my bike's strainer / rotor-filter again this December during oil change . Those bikes that have replaceable filter , it's even easier to replace at every oil change . Nothing else necessary .

Problems I think may happen with trying to flush out bike engine is

i) you can never drain all the oil out of a motorcycle engine with normal draining procedure . It is designed in that way so that even after the bike has not been started for considerable days and oil has drained back into the sump , the bearings shall still have some oil trapped around it for the first start and not run dry ever . So after using the flushing solvent and draining it some of the stuff is going to remain inside the engine and then contaminate the new fresh oil you use - which is really bad .

ii) running the engine even for 30 seconds in oil diluted by the flushing solvent is going to damage bearing surfaces inside the engine , and cause rough running thereafter for ever .

iii) many areas inside the engine is designed to trap dirt ( like the rotor filter for example ) . On using any solvent it may loosen up those dirt and move it around to block up any one or more of the fine oil passage channels inside the engine . Blocked oil circulation = certain engine damage .

[Vipergts07]

Re: Engine Oils

I would very much agree with your mechanic . Where did you get that drainage intervals for synthetic oil ? there is no such extended drain period recommendation by either Honda ( or other bike manufacturer ) or the oil companies . In my humble opinion , your best bet would be to use any good quality low-cost mineral based oil from gulf or motul , and keep the drain intervals reasonably shorter ( than company recommended 3000kms or 6 months ) . Like say drain it every 2000 Kms or 4 months , whichever occurs earlier for you . That would keep the motor always running in fresh oil which is really the best for it .

Car engine oil lasts longer not because of any additives , but because it is much much less stressed than motorcycle oils . This is because motorcycle oil has to work as engine oil , gear oil , clutch oil , engine coolant & engine cleaner at once . Also motorcycles typically have very small volume oil sumps so less volume of oil has to cope with all , repeatedly . Particularly the shearing forces inside the gear train degrades the oil very fast . Compared to it car oils have easy life
Engine flush is never recommended by any bike manufacturer and it is never needed for motorcycles . You are very likely to do more harm than any good with it . I don't think even the engine flush oil manufacturers recommend using it inside bike engines either . If motorcycle engine is really dirty inside ( which is unlikely if regular oil changes are done in correct intervals ) , it is best to disassemble and clean it . Otherwise all motorcycles have some mechanism to clean up the oil as it circulates inside the engine . Some have replaceable oil-filters , cleanable mesh filters or rotary centrifugal filters . Just change/clean up those timely and stick to timely oil change is enough .

Some oil companies do advertise of a 7-10k kms usage possibility. Some even use the oil to that extent. Wouldn't recommend any FS oil usage beyond 5k.

Car oils do have additives. That's one of the reasons why they can't be used in bike engines among others. Most 2 wheelers will have some sort of a filter but those are rarely accessed before a rebuild. For example, the oil strainer in a Uni can be accessed by only removing the right engine cover which is not feasible unless done yourself. Mechs charge a bomb for engine opening.

Have never used a flush, but have already bought the 3M 2 wheeler flush. At 60k kms, need to try. Again the feasibility of opening an engine to clean the internals is questionable. Preferably not for new vehicles though.

[Pinaki]

Valvoline champion 4T 10w30 fraudulent labeling .

Something came to my notice recently which I'd like to report here , just to let you guys know how oil companies have low esteem of Indian consumer's intellect and often resort to blatant malpractice . Or maybe it is because our legal system lets them get away with it with impunity . Or both .

Recently I bought this oil from my local motor-oils shop in Kolkata , I am sure oils like this is available everywhere and millions of bottles sold . It was past my bike's usual oil change interval which I maintain very strictly and because my usual oil ( gulf / motul ) was not available . Also it was quite cheap @ Rs 210 after discounts and the brand is a reputed one . I did not hesitate to buy .




It has the semi-transparent line at the side of the bottle which lets you view the approx volume of stuff remaining inside , which I liked .



I have been using this oil in my bike ( 2010 Splendor+ ) for more than a month now and it has been working as usual , which means my bike's motor running smoothly without any hiccups . It's not as slick as the old Gulf Synth ( discontinued now ) or motul 3000+ , but not any problems whatsoever you'd notice . All in all , a good cheap regular oil .

Then one evening having some faltu time I checked this up ...



And found something very fishy ....

Notice the JASO certification used by Valvoline-Cummins on the back label ? It's not fake , but it is !! This is because this JASO certification was issued for a very different oil product they have in the market , i.e Valvoline Champ 4T 20w40 . Not for the Valvoline Champion 4T 10W30 product they are using this certification-symbol and certification number with !
This is the page from JASO certification list , notice item 652 .



Friends you speak your opinion about this because I am not sure what to say , only sure that this Valvoline Champion 4T 10W30 oil was never JASO certified and they have used the JASO marking on it to fool buyers . Not expected from a reputed manufacturer Valvoline-Cummins who sells thousands maybe millions of bottles of oil in India alone

[Pinaki]

Re: Engine Oils

... I thought I’ll switch to fully synthetic. The local mechanic told me the activa is a basic scooter and so fully synths are like watering plants with an Aquafina. But then again I wanted a second opinion about whether it’s worth it. I thought fully synthetic engine oils need only 10000 km or 1 year, whichever is first. Or is that for cars alone ?

I would very much agree with your mechanic . Where did you get that drainage intervals for synthetic oil ? there is no such extended drain period recommendation by either Honda ( or other bike manufacturer ) or the oil companies . In my humble opinion , your best bet would be to use any good quality low-cost mineral based oil from gulf or motul , and keep the drain intervals reasonably shorter ( than company recommended 3000kms or 6 months ) . Like say drain it every 2000 Kms or 4 months , whichever occurs earlier for you . That would keep the motor always running in fresh oil which is really the best for it .

Car engine oils are quite different in terms of tech and additives added. Some last for 20-30k kms too. ... even if you shift to ss now you won't feel the entire difference that it offers. Hence the flush suggestion. ...

Car engine oil lasts longer not because of any additives , but because it is much much less stressed than motorcycle oils . This is because motorcycle oil has to work as engine oil , gear oil , clutch oil , engine coolant & engine cleaner at once . Also motorcycles typically have very small volume oil sumps so less volume of oil has to cope with all , repeatedly . Particularly the shearing forces inside the gear train degrades the oil very fast . Compared to it car oils have easy life
Engine flush is never recommended by any bike manufacturer and it is never needed for motorcycles . You are very likely to do more harm than any good with it . I don't think even the engine flush oil manufacturers recommend using it inside bike engines either . If motorcycle engine is really dirty inside ( which is unlikely if regular oil changes are done in correct intervals ) , it is best to disassemble and clean it . Otherwise all motorcycles have some mechanism to clean up the oil as it circulates inside the engine . Some have replaceable oil-filters , cleanable mesh filters or rotary centrifugal filters . Just change/clean up those timely and stick to timely oil change is enough .

[Reybey]

Re: Engine Oils

SS is not recommended for new engines. I did mention that it's a new scoot.

Ah apologies, btw good you got the jupiter, i got the honda activa 2013 and ended up getting a new rear suspension from the jupiter and DIY'd the jupiter pass light onto the activa. Mileage is good though in the activa i get around 55kmpl in the city. The front suspension is still very firm and i feel every single bump on the road

[Vipergts07]

Re: Engine Oils

Why arent you switching to fully synthetic instead?

SS is not recommended for new engines. I did mention that it's a new scoot.

[Reybey]

Re: Engine Oils

Car engine oils are quite different in terms of tech and additives added. Some last for 20-30k kms too. I do not believe there will be any harm to using 10w40. Honda stuck to 30 grade as that offers lesser resistance so invariably more mileage. Another reason I feel why the new Honda's go into rebuild sooner. Plan to use the shell 10w40 ss in my wife's new Jupiter after 5 thousand k's. Either way, even if you shift to ss now you won't feel the entire difference that it offers. Hence the flush suggestion. If you do buy from Amazon, add it to wishlist and keep an eye on it to come close to 530/- for the 10w40 shell ss. That's how I buy stuff there anyway. Another suggestion, try the HP 10w30 oil on amazon with very good reviews. It comes for around 200 bucks. Change every alternate month, so around 1200 kms for you. Looks feasible.

Why arent you switching to fully synthetic instead?

[Vipergts07]

Re: Engine Oils

Yep activa is 10w30. I used to use Honda genuine oil before and I switched to shell advance ax5? Semi synthetic. But there has barely been any difference in engine smoothness in the past year. Hence why I thought I’ll switch to fully synthetic. The local mechanic told me the activa is a basic scooter and so fully synths are like watering plants with an Aquafina. But then again I wanted a second opinion about whether it’s worth it. I thought fully synthetic engine oils need only 10000 km or 1 year, whichever is first. Or is that for cars alone ?

Car engine oils are quite different in terms of tech and additives added. Some last for 20-30k kms too. I do not believe there will be any harm to using 10w40. Honda stuck to 30 grade as that offers lesser resistance so invariably more mileage. Another reason I feel why the new Honda's go into rebuild sooner. Plan to use the shell 10w40 ss in my wife's new Jupiter after 5 thousand k's. Either way, even if you shift to ss now you won't feel the entire difference that it offers. Hence the flush suggestion. If you do buy from Amazon, add it to wishlist and keep an eye on it to come close to 530/- for the 10w40 shell ss. That's how I buy stuff there anyway. Another suggestion, try the HP 10w30 oil on amazon with very good reviews. It comes for around 200 bucks. Change every alternate month, so around 1200 kms for you. Looks feasible.

[Reybey]

Re: Engine Oils

Afaik, Honda sticks to 10w30. Not sure if the activa runs on it too. Check amazon for 10w30 ss oils, not sure if there are any. In 10w40 there are options from motul (650-750/-) & shell (530-700/-). Elf oil options available offline. Rates fluctuate like the stock market on amazon. Check your manual once if it mentions the oil grade scale. Should last 6 months under ideal circumstances. Would recommend a flush if your scoot is over 25k and has been running on mineral/ss. Check with your mechanic once.

Yep activa is 10w30. I used to use Honda genuine oil before and I switched to shell advance ax5? Semi synthetic. But there has barely been any difference in engine smoothness in the past year. Hence why I thought I’ll switch to fully synthetic. The local mechanic told me the activa is a basic scooter and so fully synths are like watering plants with an Aquafina. But then again I wanted a second opinion about whether it’s worth it. I thought fully synthetic engine oils need only 10000 km or 1 year, whichever is first. Or is that for cars alone ?

[#bpk]

Re: Engine Oils

Afaik, Honda sticks to 10w30. Not sure if the activa runs on it too. Check amazon for 10w30 ss oils, not sure if there are any. In 10w40 there are options from motul (650-750/-) & shell (530-700/-). Elf oil options available offline. Rates fluctuate like the stock market on amazon. Check your manual once if it mentions the oil grade scale. Should last 6 months under ideal circumstances. Would recommend a flush if your scoot is over 25k and has been running on mineral/ss. Check with your mechanic once.

Motul 5100, 10w 30 ss

[Vipergts07]

Re: Engine Oils

My monthly usage is about 500-600 km so about 20 km a day of normal commuting, so if i switch to Fully synth then once in 6 months of engine oil change would do good? also which ones would you recommend i get?

Afaik, Honda sticks to 10w30. Not sure if the activa runs on it too. Check amazon for 10w30 ss oils, not sure if there are any. In 10w40 there are options from motul (650-750/-) & shell (530-700/-). Elf oil options available offline. Rates fluctuate like the stock market on amazon. Check your manual once if it mentions the oil grade scale. Should last 6 months under ideal circumstances. Would recommend a flush if your scoot is over 25k and has been running on mineral/ss. Check with your mechanic once.