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Modified FZ16, FZ-S, Fazers owners Tech Talk
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No Bro, its not as easy as you think, the FI system starts from the Fuel pump till the exhaust back-pressure, all dealing with sensors (Both mechanical and electronic). So you need to work on every bit to achieve the conversation successfully. Talking about Stunner, its from Honda they would already conceptualized the same stunner engine on carb as well as FI. Did you ever try to learn about the RTR-FI vs Carb?Originally posted by juniorbiker403 View Post
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^^^ it is not necessary that fuel injection has to be sophisticated. The simplest form of fuel injection could have just one sensor i.e. air flow mass sensor. I recall that in 1989 Dynojet had created a fuel injection system for the carbureted ZX10. They replaced the carbs and inlet manifold with a specially designed manifold which used a thin bare wire running across the manifold diameter as the air flow mass sensor. The concept was something like this: the wire heats up, when air flows over the wire it would create a drop in the temp, this drop was then used to calculate the amount of air flowing and the electronic control unit would inject the required amount of fuel. It was ingenious and simple. It got rid of the flat spots that crabs were creating and gave a bump up in performance as added bonus. It also made the cover story of Motorcyclist magazine.
However who has the skill set and the time and resources to do the same out here?Last edited by abhimanyu31; 10-11-2012, 12:56 PM.Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
Multum in Parvo - Much in Little
"Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html
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What you had described is for Inlet Air temperature monitoring and not flow sensor. Most modern Fi engines have the IAT and MAP sensors.The first experiments in cars started by retaining the butterfly,and by placing a single injector in the common manifold. The trigger signal for the injector was generated by placing multiple magnets on the flywheel, to coincide with inlet valve timing.Later Megasquirt also marketed their Carb to injector conversion kits..Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View Post^^^ it is not necessary that fuel injection has to be sophisticated. The simplest form of fuel injection could have just one sensor i.e. air flow mass sensor. I recall that in 1989 Dynojet had created a fuel injection system for the carbureted ZX10. They replaced the carbs and inlet manifold with a specially designed manifold which used a thin bare wire running across the manifold diameter as the air flow mass sensor. The concept was something like this: the wire heats up, when air flows over the wire it would create a drop in the temp, this drop was then used to calculate the amount of air flowing and the electronic control unit would inject the required amount of fuel. It was ingenious and simple. It got rid of the flat spots that crabs were creating and gave a bump up in performance as added bonus. It also made the cover story of Motorcyclist magazine.
However who has the skill set and the time and resources to do the same out here?
.EFI Conversion | Ignition Control | Fuel Injection Conversions - DIYAutoTune.com
In motorcycles The earlier Yamaha V max with carb are being converted from carb to injection with dedicated kits..In fact it is an universal kit which can be used for most CV type carburetor
Yamaha Vmax Fuel Injector CV CarbLast edited by psr; 10-11-2012, 02:02 PM.When Was The Last Time,You Did Something For The First Time.
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well thankyou all for your replies.
will contribute to my little knowledge
and about going for fi,i must leave it to yamaha engineers.
Last edited by juniorbiker403; 10-11-2012, 02:34 PM.
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Agreed. However in this particular case they had developed an algorithm that was used to measure flow of air and air temprature based on the drop in temp and increase in current required to heat the wire. There were no other sensors. The whole idea was to create a bolt on system which was simple and did not require any type of tooling. Let see if I can find the Motorcyclist issue. If I can, I will scan the article and post it here.Originally posted by psr View PostWhat you had described is for Inlet Air temperature monitoring and not flow sensor. Most modern Fi engines have the IAT and MAP sensors.The first experiments in cars started by retaining the butterfly,and by placing a single injector in the common manifold. The trigger signal for the injector was generated by placing multiple magnets on the flywheel, to coincide with inlet valve timing.Later Megasquirt also marketed their Carb to injector conversion kits..
.EFI Conversion | Ignition Control | Fuel Injection Conversions - DIYAutoTune.com
In motorcycles The earlier Yamaha V max with carb are being converted from carb to injection with dedicated kits..In fact it is an universal kit which can be used for most CV type carburetor
Yamaha Vmax Fuel Injector CV Carb
Update: my mistake. It's not in the Motorcyclist magazine, its in the December 1989 edition of Cycle magazine.Last edited by abhimanyu31; 10-11-2012, 08:43 PM.Only a biker knows why a dog sticks his head out of a car window.
Multum in Parvo - Much in Little
"Yes, it is FAST! No, you CAN'T ride it!" - http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/general-...a-300-san.html
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That is a Hotwire. Yes Nissan SR20DET's (2L twin cam, 16V Inline 4cyl, T denotes turbo usually found in 200sx, Pulsar GTiR 4X4) run them. As more air flows past the wire cooling it, more current is needed to keep the wire at the preset temp. More current = more fuel. Look for a small black box located between the aircleaner and the throttle body.Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View PostAgreed. However in this particular case they had developed an algorithm that was used to measure flow of air and air temprature based on the drop in temp and increase in current required to heat the wire. There were no other sensors. The whole idea was to create a bolt on system which was simple and did not require any type of tooling. Let see if I can find the Motorcyclist issue. If I can, I will scan the article and post it here.
The injector in the throttle body is a TBI system. Very restrictive and not good for hp gains. Think of a carb engine, then the manufacturers decide to convert to injection, it is a cheap alternative. Simply plug in a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor via vacuum like to tell the ecu how much air is in the intake therefore add XX pulses of fuel.
You can get downdraft webbers to run these injectors with some success (for cars)
You can go mechanical injection like the old bosch K-Jetronic like on the old Porsche engines, though these are very difficult.
If you do decide to go efi you will need to make new fuel lines from the fuel pump or surge can to the injector, Fuel pressure regulator and back to the tank, install a fuel pump with suitable working pressure for your application, Install a different fuel pressure regulator (naturally aspirated FPR are different to force induction FPR's due to the different rising rate) Depending on how intricate the efi system is, coil pac's for the spark, you need a wiring loom, AIT, MAP/Flap/Hotwire/Karmen Vortex air measurement type sensor that will work with the ecu. Not to mention a TPS, possibly crank or cam angle sensor to trigger the spark plus much much more.
Its not just as simple as plugging in a fuel injector and a ecu. If there is a similar engine that Yamaha (or what ever engine maker produced in both a carb and efi variant) you can retro fit it easier, Though you still may need to drill and tap the engine block to install sensors, triggers etc.
Then you need to get the tune......Don't even start on that!!!!2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos
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Get a new header pipe made up (along with a muffler) and you have removed your catcon.Originally posted by juniorbiker403 View Postcan i get the catcon removed from my fz.do you advise this
The cat con is located inside the midship muffler/resonator. It is at the end of the pipe emptying into the "box"2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos
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Installing a Projector headlight.
Removing the clear headlight lens.
You can use a oven, heatgun or your mums/sisters hairdryer (or your own)
The previous installer had left the heatgun blowing on a single spot too long (the clip) and bubbled the plastic.
I put it in the oven, set it to 150deg C for about 4 mins. Be careful where you rest it, wet cardboard or wooden slats are preferred to the steel grid in the ovens.
I removed it from the oven using oven mitts and gently, slowly pried it apart using wide screwdrivers to hold it open and a thin screwdriver to "break" the webs of sealant. Don't let it get on the inside of the lens if you can help it. It is a real ***** to get off. I was working from the top corners down.
DO NOT USE ACETONE ON THE CLEAR PLASTIC LENS. YOU WILL FOG/HAZE IT PERMANENTLY!!!
I used acetone sparingly on the edge where the sealant was difficult to remove using cotton buds. You can pull the sealant out slowly with a steady pressure. I tried reusing it, even after reheating it numerous times I ended up tossing it and getting High temp RTV Silicone. (Wasted 1hr there)
Cleaning and prepping the reflector
I got a heap of cotton wool, dipped it in the wifes nail polish remover and went to town rubbing away on it. I ended up getting a fan to blow the fumes away as they were ok to start with but soon got a little irritating. The silver paint comes off and clogs the cotton ball, needs frequent turning and replacing.
After a couple hrs I got most of it off, I hit it with a scotchbrite pad to roughen up the surface so the paint sticks.
Time to remove the left over sealant
Using a slotted screwdriver I poked up one end and started pulling it slowly. It would come off in a long piece. Kept doing this until it was all gone. Acetone helps loosen and dissolve this adhesive.
Get the housing washer the one with 3 arms on it and make the slots larger if needed. You can use a small file or a hot screwdriver/soldering iron.
Note they only fit 1 way as the arms are not equidistant around the washer. There is also a key in the washer that lines up with the projectors groove cut in the threaded rear. There is TOP written along one of these grooves so you will need to orient that upwards.
I took this opportunity to file down the rough tool marks from the installer. Smoothed it down as best I could and gave the reflector a good scrub under a running tap.
Hung it up to dry.
Prepping for painting
After it dried I got some alcohol swabs and rubbed the reflector surface down. After I cleaned it I didn't touch the surface. I held the back where the light is positioned. there is a half circle ridge/wall and I held onto that. I had also screwed the height adjustment bracket back in and used that to loop some string through so I can hang the reflector up, also to hold it.
I took a hairdryer and started heating up the reflector and shook the paint can. Just matt black spray paint as I can't find any high temp paint.
Warmed up both paint and reflector (I had set the reflector on the floor)
Holding the previously mentioned ridge I began spray painting it. After the first coat I would hit it with the hairdryer (blow hot air) and help the paint dry, Hang it up and come back in 20 mins or so. Repeating the process until about 5 coats of paint was done.
I put 5 coats of paint as I had no plastic primer so I was unsure how well the paint will stick to a plastic surface. If you can get plastic primer it may help before the black paint. You want a non reflective backing now as your projector housing has a built in reflector, lens to focus the light etc.
Installing the projector module into the newly painted reflector. Be careful what you touch and make sure you have clean hands!!!
Now after leaving it to dry overnight (actually it was around 1am and yes I do keep rockstar/unemployed hours. Going to bed around 4-5 am, waking up 10-11am)
Before going further you want to check your clear lens will fit. Do a test fit and make sure its not broken etc. Unclip it and pop it off. Set it aside for now.
I got my light housing. It has 3 silicone washers that cushion the back of the projector housing stem/threaded section to the plastic reflector section.
Set the locking washer into the now enlarged notches in the back of the reflector.
Get the housing threaded section through the hole, Bring your angel eye + demon eye wires through the side notch in the reflector (left side of the hole) I had to unscrew and rotate the lens housing so the wires were on the correct side, also I had to reset the lens and screw in a locking screw that had worked loose. There are 3 of these locking tabs. Don't tighten too much or you may chip or crack the lens.
Run the wires through the tightening nut 1 by 1 or they won't fit. There may or may not be a small phillips head screw with a small tab to anchor wires in place located on the back of the threaded section. Remove this then you can spin the nut on and slowly tighten and check for alignment of the housing. Line it all up so the TOP is at the top, projector points straight (not to the side like previously
) and tighten up the nut.
There is a rubber grommet with 3 holes in it, Threaded on the outside. These have the leads for the bulb and accessories running through them.
Anytime you need to rest the reflector light down I lay it on a clean soft towel.
Time to put the waterproofing cap on with the 2 drain tubes pointing down of course.....
That round rubber grommet with threads on the outside, This "screws" into the rubber cap. I just pushed it until it was level. Be careful as you may break wires as you are sliding the cap + grommet assembly into place. Take your time.
Now that's done you can get the clear lens clipped in
Clear lens install
If you have any alignment issues with the new projector NOW is the time to make the adjustments. Once the lens is on then you will have to start over again.
I used High Temp RTV silicone as the sealant. Run a nice bead deep in the groove of the reflector. Make it nice and even. Slow and even pressure on the tube as you work your way around.
Let it get a skin on it. This will take about 3-5 mins. While your waiting for that skin check your clear lens. I got more alcohol swabs and started cleaning the inside of the lens. I had noticed this fingerprint on the inside of the lens a few days after I bought my bike (almost 1yr ago) It drove me nuts every time I saw it. No one else can see it but its one of those "Once you have seen it" you can't help but notice it type things. I took this opportunity to remove it. I thought I did, But it came back

Cut up 4 or more pieces of masking tape into approx 3-4 inches and leave these within easy reach.
You need to be careful and slip n slide the cover on. Once its on get a piece of tape and tape the lens to the reflector tight.
Leave it for a few hrs to cure. I had left the pilot/park bulb out so the fumes can escape.
Wiring this headlight
I can't comment on other kits as this came with harness and was installed by a "local ghetto installer" recommended by the Vendor.
With this "kit" if you can call it there is a wiring harness with relay, inline fuse to (+) on the battery, (-) crimped eyelet, clips for high beam, the angel eye and demon eye if applicable supplied. The harness plugs into the existing 3 pronged headlight plug.
You will need to purchase a ballast to run the light and extra switch if you want to toggle the angel eye separately.
You can see the wiring harness as how the installer had wired it and tied it off.
I did a few tests to make sure the light and its features were working before soldering.
I tapped into the existing wires carefully with thought going into "How can I completely disconnect the headlight assembly without having to cut wires" and splicing and soldering into the headlight side of the clips/plugs.
As I had already my park light power lines spliced into with my side emblems, it was easy to ID and to confirm I just followed my pilot/park light at the bottom of my headlight up to the plug.
I now had a fully functioning high beam. Angel eye was hooked up to my park lights. If you want to trigger these separately then you will need to wire up to another switch.
I re routed the wires to run down the left side of the frame, Following the existing wires.
Who ever designed the rubber boot/enclosure for the wiring harness plugs needs to be shot! Who designs a water catchment to enclose wiring plugs? the boot opens and closes from the top with the little rubber "porcupine quills" for lack of a better word getting pulled through a hole in the opposite side. There is openings along the top where the 2 sides meet and if/when water gets inside it has no where to drain!! This should have been upside down so the opening is at the bottom.....
I run the red power lead down the side, through the other rubber "strap" that has the throttle cable, wiring to the gearbox, 2 breather hoses strapped and under the tank between the base of the tank and the frame. there is a small enough gap for the wire to pass through, then just routed the wire neatly following the main red lead for the starter to the (+) terminal of my battery. I further cleaned up the previously bundled and zip tied wires running them along the left side of the frame between the plastic outer mold of the tank and the frame. The relay was relocated to sit up under the front base of the tank.
It is a much neater way of running the wires, though it took me around 2-3hrs to get the headlight rewired and about 10mins to get the headlight bolted back on. Reason for this is to make room behind the headlight. The rear of the headlight does come back a fair distance, so you need as much room as you can get.
LED Park light and angel eye hooked up
low beam
End result
2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos
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The first question you should ask yourself is:" what would I gain if I replace the carb. by an FI system?".Originally posted by juniorbiker403 View Posta crazy idea popped in my mind,
since this thread is dedicated to mods on fz then can someone please tell me that can't we replace the carb with a fuel injection system?............
There are a few pros for FI: often better adjustment of fuel-air mix, this being "automatic" when your altitude/ climatic conditions change, and altogether a slight improvement of your fuel efficiency. Better pollution control too, of course. The overall performance of the bike will however be unchanged when compared to a properly tuned carburetor for the present conditions.
Cons, in the other hand, are considerable: huge extra cost of the installation that the better FE will never compensate, much higher risk of bad functioning due to poor quality fuel, quasi impossibility to have the system repaired, or even cleaned, by the ordinary road side workshop (or DIY with a few tools), not to mention the nightmare you are going to have in doing such modification, and finally tuning (needing special computer program), etc....
Al in all, IMHO: I would NOT even consider it (but that's me...)Last edited by Lucky Luke; 10-13-2012, 09:48 AM.When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!
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ok,thanks luke the main thing is that,i have decided for a series of mods for my bike which are mainly cosmetic but would also like to give the bike a little more oomph.I will not go for the big bore kit.since i mentioned just a 'little oomph' so that can be fulfilled by 'regular items' like free flow filter or ffe.for the bike to go more smoother and be more precise like the r15 i thought an fi system would help matters but from responses recieved it is clear that applying an fi system to a carburetted one is best left to an engineer.Originally posted by Lucky Luke View PostThe first question you should ask yourself is:" what would I gain if I replace the carb. by an FI system?".
There are a few pros for FI: often better adjustment of fuel-air mix, this being "automatic" when your altitude/ climatic conditions change, and altogether a slight improvement of your fuel efficiency. Better pollution control too, of course. The overall performance of the bike will however be unchanged when compared to a properly tuned carburetor for the present conditions.
Cons, in the other hand, are considerable: huge extra cost of the installation that the better FE will never compensate, much higher risk of bad functioning due to poor quality fuel, quasi impossibility to have the system repaired, or even cleaned, by the ordinary road side workshop (or DIY with a few tools), not to mention the nightmare you are going to have in doing such modification, and finally tuning (needing special computer program), etc....
Al in all, IMHO: I would NOT even consider it (but that's me...)
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juniorbiker and summer, Thankyou for the kind words but there are far more knowledgeable people out there with far better communication skills than me who are more suited to writing instructions, not to mention these have already been done. You can look up youtube as well as other forums to find the information you need.2013 Ducati M795 with a few mods in here http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/superbik...95-owners.html
Want to talk about modding your FZ? http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/motorcyc...tech-talk.html
My videos http://www.youtube.com/user/FZSMik/videos
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Thanks bro. I have just sent you two PMs.Originally posted by abhimanyu31 View PostLucky Luke; if you ever need any parts from India, just PM me and I will courier them to you. Standing offer, no big deal.Last edited by Lucky Luke; 10-14-2012, 12:44 PM.When I do something stupid, my consolation is to know that I'll do the worse one only once!
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