Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Re-boring is a common action to restore a worn cylinder block and piston....the increment in size of increased Piston and bore is 0.25mm than stock..Each re-bore will be such increments till the 4th over size..ie., 1mm more than stock.....OE pistons for such an exercise is available for most engines....where no such piston is offered by OE then aftermarket Pistons that have least temperature expansion coefficient is selected for the re-boring....A forged Piston is one such choice...
If the competence of the boring machine, and it's operator is in question, then the easy and reliable way, is to go for stock Bore and Piston assembly from the manufacturer .

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Yes...but the most important thing to note is the expansion coefficient of the Piston with heat, and how far the bore can be overbored safely.......
The distance between the Piston Pin to Crown, it's weight, head shape, are some of the critical parameters to be carefully selected if you want a reliable re or over boring to be done.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18


I mirror that, expanding the combusion chamber is not as easy as we think or being thaught. A 200CC FZ from Yamaha factory will be altoghter a different engine assembly. Even the Pulsar 150 vs 180 or Apache 160 vs 180 arent the same engines internally though they look, sound and taste identical.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Hi All,

sorry for not updating the thread.... Been busy and been lazy from posting my usual detailed blabbering here .

Anyways, off lately my bike was behaving quite erratic in terms of handling and the accleration went down drastically. Also when i would start to roll off on 1st gear, there would a be "Khat" noise emanating from the rear tire which would disappear subsequently once the bike is in momentum. So i was scratching my head over it and also had a long chat with @psr ji regarding the same. He suspected that the cush drive/pads might have gone bust or else it would be a good idea to get the rear wheel dismantled and inspected properly.

For readers who have no idea what a cush drive is and what are it's primary functions please go through the following links below:

Cush Drive: Cush drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Video Link: Cush Drive Replacement - YouTube

I hope whoever might be facing the problem with their respective bikes will also get the cush pads and the rear bearings checked and replaced as in when needed after checking the video link above..

Anyways, after inspection at the SVC, it was discovered that the rear tire bearing has gone bust. Simultaneously, for some odd reason my bike was consuming rear brake light bulbs quite quickly. I have a suspicion the so called cheap aftermarket 10 bucks bulbs were the culprit so decided to give a shot with the OEM Philips 5 watt bulbs for 30 bucks. I picked up one extra as a spare so that when needed i can do my own DIY right in the garage. Got the rear tire bearing replaced along with cush pads as a precaution. My FZ - X is now accelerating vey very fast!! I have a feeling it was actually the main culprit behind the limited top end eating away a lot of power and creating a lot of friction at the back. Must have gone bust sometime back and my SVC guys might have ignored to inspect and grease it.


Regardless i am sharing you a screen grab of the bill:



As one can see Yamaha has been very kind in keeping the prices of the parts really cheap . The bearing costed me peanuts in comparison to the critical work it does with keeping the wheels turning. As a precautionary measure i also got the front tire bearings checked. It is functioning well but still i shall be getting it replaced within the next 5,000 kms as a preventive maintenance.

My FZ - X's engine oil consumption thanks to the crappy bore has gone up significantly so it has become a serious headache. In the coming week's i shall let Mr. Vikram take a call on whether we continue riding with the same bore or what would be the best course of action to be taken. Under the circumstances, all high speed runs with G-tech and Go-Pro videos have been scrapped keeping safety of the engine and self in mind.

I am aware that the report on the Go Pro run in which my FZ -X managed 130 kmph and the 'Tooner' racing clutch springs vs stock are pending. Give me some time to clear out my work schedule and then i shall share the whole lot with you all.

Until then..


Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Good to know that niggling problems are getting settled...
I feel you should say good bye to your BB in the interest of the rest of the engine's life. Right now nothing had happened to the internals..imagine if the Piston suddenly shatter and drops metal pieces inside...as such I remember your post that the Piston inlet and outlet marking and hence the weight is lop sided, and it must have by now made the bore Oval in shape.....Try to open the engine and inspect for worn bore and Piston skirt... Sooner you take the BB + Piston out , safer the rest of the engine will be.

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Another important piece of information and another great help for me.Will get mine checked tomorrow.


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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Been out of forum for a long time but thanks a lot for the support that i was showered upon when my bore kit shattered... Yup it would be most advisble to go for stock cylinder and pistons. Way more safer that way. I had to change each and every component of the engine.. everything as the particles of the broken borekit entered the crank assembly..

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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Please share your experience here, since Your bad experience is known only to a few like me, and sharing it here will help others..

Shv18 had been forthright in sharing and had Helped many..

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Hi all,
Il share each and every bit of information that I went through.
It all started when I started getting tired of power band that stock bore was providing...decided to go for an upgrade.
Decided that a free flow exhaust can be the best thing one can get initially for an upgrade.
Had leo vince & RC ffe in mind.. nothing else.. I had saved up around 11k but I went for the RC exhaust reading reviews in the forum.
Ordered the ffe in february 2013 and the delivery took place towards mid may. By this time out of frustation and hunger for power, I got the Bb kit installed as it was readily available.
Used the bb kit initialy with stock carb , stock air filters every thing stock. After 200kms of running in got a 115 main jet installed and after 1500kms or so I got a bs 29 cv carb and upjetted it with a 121 main jet which I procured with the sole help of shv18 as the local vendors were too blatant to take orders for the carb. Thus after installation, of new carb, bb kit, ffe,,,,, the bike was a rocket..... Big time. But all the while I was using the upgrades.. my bike used to stop all of a sudden in lower gears, with weird noises from the engine.. honestly, the greedy me was so satisfied with the power all I was concerned about was power and power, regular service, engine oil change, rest I believed would fall automaticaly into place.. covered good 2400 kms with the bore...
The next day my piston shattered into pieces when making my way back home....
Later on got know that the bore was consuming oil that I did not realise.
So all in all this was my short Bb kit story :banghead:
I got a replacent from RC but after
Seeing damages and the labour cost involved I decided to go stock bore and would advice the same to all... Never play with an engine unless and until nothing ie stick to stock bore always.. this was the lesson I learnt from my hot roding days... Months of saving, tension, wait, study loss, etc, repair charges that oviously my parents didnt bear as the whole thing was my idea...
Il post the pic of the Big bore kit i got when it was a new and condition when it got shattered.

Damages:
1) crankshaft bent- unuseable
2) head damaged severely
3) gearshaft damaged
4) bore kit broke into 3 pieces.
5) hefty labour charges
:banghead::banghead:


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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Honest suggestion to all brothers who are looking for power upgrades:-
I do understand what your going through to get that extra hp, iv been through that, followed all running procedure etc.. so if a simota+ffe+upjet doesnt quench your thirst for power it would be best to save up for something stock that is powerful ie a better bigger bike. Plain and simple

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Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Its really unfortunate and misfortune for few to have faced with such complications. Lets agree to the fact, PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENTS comes at a price and certain level of risks as well. Anyone who is a true Hot-rodder will never shy away or think otherwise. I have been using RC kit for a good 1.8 years now and clocked 32,000 Kms. All these includes 2 engine seizures which was rectified at no extra cost. I think the major and critical point here would be the installation. Since I live in Bangalore, installation was done by RC guys. However, I would not mind admitting that my bike doesn't reflect stock level reliability. Having said that, it can bust D200 or CBR250R anyday . I do not intend to start any heated debate here. Just sharing my bit of experience . PEACE

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Thats quite an expensive lesson you learnt mate...

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Anand Roy, It sure was a very expensive and frustrating experience you had gone through..and knowing that you are a student , the amount of Monetary and stress on time for preparing for the exams etc., are all very demanding. Glad that you have gone back to stock and at peace with your bike.
Shv18 is still continuing his experiments, and once he comes up with the final configuration, you may co-ordinate with him to know better...

To have failure TWICE is not good either for you or your engine in terms of peace of mind. You were lucky to live not only in Bangalore right next to the Tooner , but to get the attention in getting the problem attended to...still think of reliability ,and you don't have it...inspite of the fact that the total installation was done by RC themselves.
It is Good to know that you are up and running and had not met with catastrophic problems like Mr.Anand Roy. Good Luck to you..

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

To have failure TWICE is not good either for you or your engine in terms of peace of mind. You were lucky to live not only in Bangalore right next to the Tooner , but to get the attention in getting the problem attended to...still think of reliability ,and you don't have it...inspite of the fact that the total installation was done by RC themselves.
It is Good to know that you are up and running and had not met with catastrophic problems like Mr.Anand Roy. Good Luck to you..[/QUOTE]

Thank you

The final Report, 12 Dec, 2013

Hi All,

This is going to be a long one..

After a brief sabbatical from this thread, i am now in a position to write the final report about my stint with hot roding my FZ and first hand experience with Race Concepts

As per the last post, it was observed that the engine oil consumption had increased by a huge margin. So as a precautionary measure i decided to scrap all the planned speed runs for data logging and keep my FZ - X under 60 kmph speed limit till i can make it to Motozone's place and assess the condition of the famed Tooned parts, The block and the piston.

After dismantling the block and the piston from the engine this is what we observed:




Pic 1: Image indicating piston coming in contact with the cylinder walls.



Pic 2: A piston ring. Note the gap between the cylinder wall and the ring.

The cylinder walls bore piston scuffing marks and also the rings had failed. After inspection, we came to the conclusion that the cylinder wall was oval in shape instead of being a perfect cylindrical one along with the piston weight being on the wrong side which accelerated the lateral play of the piston while moving up and down and also encouraged rapid disintegration of the sealing capability of the piston oil ring. I think the prime reason behind the piston slap might be because of this:





So after approx. a mere 7,500 kms of service life, i had no choice but to throw this piece of "Race Tooned" kit out of the window and discuss the further possibilities with my Vehicle with Mr. Vikram. By now i had already spent a considerable amount right from the procurement of third grade Tooned parts to complete disassembly, re-assembly and on spares to keep my FZ - X ticking when in "hot rod" mode.

So after having a round of discussion with Mr. Vikram it was decided to scrap any further investments on my FZ related with Hot roding as the money spent vs the increment in kmph didn't justify in my eyes thanks to the ridiculous sum of money i had already sunk into this project. I must say i was lucky enough to escape without any engine seizure or catastrophic disasters with the crank and the rest of the engine components. When the crankshaft and the con rod were inspected by Motozone, we didn't find any play or unusual wear and tear. It was decided to revert my vehicle to bone stock configuration. So i got hold of the stock OEM block lying in my garage and we put the original block and piston back into my bike, replaced the 29mm CV Carburettor to stock Mikuni 26mm CV carburettor along with the stock TPS sensor and the stock CDI put back into the bike. Since, i had taken the prototype street cam and the engine head from Motozone only for the testing purpose, it was returned to its rightful owner. I would say in my whole experience in this project, it was only the ported head and the street cam which blew my mind away when it came to value for money Vs the rest of the snakeoil products i had got hold of earlier from our reputed Tooner.

While we were getting the whole assembly sorted out, Mr. Vikram surprised me with a small gift, a ported and polished head from their end along with the stock cam which was fitted on my vehicle. He was able to somehow correct all the mistakes done by our Tooner on the RC done up head that was shipped from blore. Mr. Vikram mentioned that i can expect slightly better performance over the bone stock bike and a slightly increased FE.

While we were at it, another disgruntled rider came to Motozone with his CBR 250R with a host of issues right from bad ride handling to no gain in performance even after the head porting was done on his vehicle's engine head. When the engine was disassembled, being a DOHC configuration and 4 valve head, it was discovered that the inlet ports were unevenly ported and the size of one intake port was callously larger than the other one which resulted in robbing the A-F charge from the cylinder and reduced the overall power generation efficiency of the engine. So rather than making more power with the famed Racing experience our Race Tooner successfully reduced the overall power output of the stock motor. Motozone then agreed to re-engineered the whole engine head and re-port and polished it to improve the flow of charge into the cylinder.

In order to address the issue of handling, our Tooner had installed a steering damper on the side of the vehicle which as per the reports from the user would get undone in a matter of few kms and would actually start hampering with the freeplay of the handlebar instead of aiding it. So when the side panels were removed to see what was the reason behind this issue, we were shocked to witness the unthinkable:



Pic 4: Hole drilled in order to install the steering damper.



Pic 3: Steering damper removed from its bolted position.



Pic 4: Tooner drilled a hole in the frame of the chassis!



Pic 5: Animated CBR 250R Chassis frame structure. The red dot indicates the place where the hole was drilled to accommodate the steering damper mounting point.

So Mr. Tooner managed to install the steering damper by drilling holes in the T section of the chassis. For Noobs, please understand one thing; when in motion the whole of chassis is designed by the manufacturer to flex and be structurally rigid at the same time to counter the stresses of various force generated due to the vehicle's movement. By drilling into the frame without any consideration, our Tooner actually managed to weaken the overall strength of the chassis thus, compromising the integrity of the same. When the inspection was done, as the pics confirm above, rust formations had already started building up which eventually may lead to breaking of the chassis under severe stress thus endangering the life of the rider. Our Tooner was so inconsiderate that he managed to drill a hole right through a welding joint. Now i am no structural engineer but common sense tells me that this approach is stupid and is weakening the welded joint by a greater margin.

The actual mounting point for a steering damper is on the top instead of the approach taken by our Tooner as shown in the video below:



It was later discovered that the so called stiffened racing clutch springs sold to the rider were actually softer than the Honda OEM company ones. If you are interested in finding out whether the clutch springs sold to you by the Tooner is stiffer or softer than stock ones, a simple experiment of load bearing and contraction should give you guys an idea about the same. First a stiffer spring by default has a lesser no. of coils in comparison to the softer ones. Secondly, all you need to do is put up a simple apparatus where you put on a specified amount of weight on top of the spring and measure the amount of dampening in comparison to the latter one. Say 500 gms for this experiment. If the Tooner's stiffer clutch spring dampens more than the stock clutch springs, well gentlemen you know who's neck to get hold of and demand for a refund i presume??

I guess this should clear any lingering doubts about the engineering and common sense capabilities of our beloved Tooner!

I was also going to upload the video file for the last speed run attempted on my bike.. but unfortunately the GoPro memory SD card got corrupt before we could retrieve the data as i was informed by senior rider abhimanyu31.

Regardless, this hot roding experience on FZ was a turning point for me to understand the basic principles of how an engine functions and also what can be considered a safe limit for any bone stock 4 stroke engine to be tuned to get a desired output in a specified budget. In all practicalities, if one looks at the expense sheet of close to Rs. 40,000/- walking away from my wallet, one may consider it to be one of the most ridiculous and expensive experiments conducted by a crazy rider. But let's try and look at it other way round! This made me get in touch with some of the most experienced riders in the country like @psr @abhimanyu31 who have been history sheeters in the past with hot roding during two - stroke days (Thanks for sharing the rich history of your troubles and things you learned from your earlier stint with two strokes like piston distortion, charge robbing, etc. ), I gained a considerable knowledge about engine tuning and performance, finally i was able to track down a real motorcycle engine tuning house Motozone, instead of one pretending to be.. if you know what i am saying!!

So what's next?? Well i have been rattling my head with the new found knowledge and on the next little pet project to set things right this time. Yamaha FZ is a brilliant bike and has served me well over a span of 3 years of ownership without making me go through any severe headache or any major mechanical problems. After having a long chat with Mr. Vikram regarding the same, i have decided to upgrade to a larger displacement capacity bike in the next few months and satiate my thirst for more power but this time keeping bone stock reliability in mind.

So as mentioned earlier, as of now i am contemplating to upgrade to a second hand KTM Duke 200 for the proposed project. I will try and cover all aspects from the selection of the vehicle, known problems, to the approach towards safe hot roding for a higher top end and quicker acceleration without compromising the health and the reliability of the engine. If the moderators can still handle the amount blabbering i do on a single post, i shall document my whole hot roding experience of the same in a separate thread along with data, facts and images of the build to help any aspiring hot roder without blowing up their engines!!

Before we close the chapter, i would like to thank each and every reader, moderators and senior riders for the overwhelming support i have received driving me everyday to write detailed experience about the same. I hope now being a sticky, this thread will serve a lot of readers to understand hot roding better and also ask questions before getting drawn into someone's marketing techniques of "Bulletproof reliability" without questioning facts and asking for data.

To summarise my love for Tooner after having a first hand experience with his kits, i would like to share this image with all of you readers:



I would request everyone to observe a brief moment of silence and decide what to make out of it...


Best Regards and Cheers,

Re: The POWERHOUSE Fz18

Oh god....
I was planning to visit india just to grab those performance kit.
I wouldnt have been able to handle all those economic loss and waste of time.
Any way thanks..for clearing a myth.

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